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  • Would you mind joining me in a round of "Do You Hear the People Sing?"

    你願意和我高歌一曲 《你可聽見人民的歌聲?》嗎

  • Ah, Admiralty, Hong Kong...

    噢,香港的金鐘站…

  • I remember being here two years ago during the Umbrella Movement.

    我記得兩年前雨傘運動那段期間 我曾來過這裡

  • In 2014, the people of Hong Kong -

    在 2014 年,以年輕人為主的

  • mainly young people -

    香港人民

  • took to the streets for 79 days

    走上街頭抗議長達 79 天

  • to protest for their right to directly elect their leader -

    為了爭取直選的權利

  • Something Beijing promised under the One Country - Two Systems policy

    北京在一國兩制的政策下 曾承諾香港人民這項權利

  • but, spoiler alert: they lied.

    但…有雷注意…結果都是唬爛

  • I remember it all so clearly.

    我到現在還記憶猶新

  • That's where I slept in a tent.

    我當時在那裡搭帳棚

  • Right where that BMW is driving by.

    就在那台 BMW 經過的位置

  • Over there, that was the Lennon Wall.

    你看那邊,那是連儂牆

  • I can almost see student leader, Joshua Wong, giving a rousing speech!

    我似乎又看到了學生領袖 黃之鋒慷慨激昂的演說身影!

  • Oh wait... that is Joshua Wong!

    呃等等…那就是黃之鋒啊!

  • Joshua!

    之鋒!

  • Joshua!

    之鋒!

  • Joshua! Joshua!

    之鋒!之鋒!

  • Hi - hi!

    - 嗨 - 嗨!

  • Do you mind if I get an interview with you?

    你願意接受我的採訪嗎?

  • Oh, of course - okay!

    喔,當然好啊,OK!

  • Awesome. Can we go somewhere quieter?

    太好了,不過我們可以去 安靜點的地方嗎?

  • Yeah, that side is better.

    也對,那邊比較適合

  • Alright, let's go - Okay!

    - 好的,那就走吧! - OK!

  • Well, Joshua, thank you for agreeing to be interviewed.

    [黃之鋒 香港社運人士] 謝謝你願意接受採訪

  • What's it like for you to be back here at Admiralty?

    重回金鐘站帶給你什麼樣的感覺?

  • It's the place, two years ago, we occupied and create

    兩年前,我們佔領此地

  • a miracle, or even the history of Hong Kong.

    並創造了奇蹟 甚至為香港歷史寫下新的一頁

  • And it's also a place where now I work,

    而這裡也是我現在工作的地方

  • and because I'm already the assistant of legislator, Nathan Law.

    我目前擔任立法會議員羅冠聰的秘書長

  • Do you think, some day, they'll build big statues of you?

    你覺得人們哪天會幫你立個雕像嗎?

  • Uh, it's a bit too far away, in fact.

    呃,其實我還差得遠呢

  • You're being too modest.

    是你太謙虛了

  • Would you consider another mass movement like the Umbrella?

    你有考慮將來發起另一場類似 雨傘運動的大規模抗爭行動嗎?

  • Next year, March, will be the chief executive election.

    明年三月將要舉行行政長官大選

  • I believe it will be a critical point for Hong Kongers

    我相信那對香港人民來說 會是個關鍵的時機

  • to have a massive social movement

    能發動一場大型的社會運動

  • to show our anger to the indifference of Beijing again.

    並再次表達我們對於 北京政府的冷漠感到憤怒

  • How do you think that will be different from two years ago?

    你覺得這場運動跟兩年前會有什麼不同?

  • I would say that there's too much uncertainty.

    我認為這其中包含了太多的不確定性

  • After the Umbrella Movement ended,

    當年雨傘運動結束

  • with the bookseller incident happened,

    緊接著便發生銅鑼灣書店事件

  • kidnapped from Hong Kong to China,

    幾名書商從香港境內被綁架到中國

  • how I've been detained in Bangkok airport

    我之前在曼谷機場被拘留

  • because the Thai government hoped to remain in good relations with China.

    只因泰國政府希望與中國保持良好關係

  • And how disqualified two pro-independence legislators.

    再加上兩位支持獨立的 立法會議員被取消資格

  • It seems we already faced the failure of One Country - Two Systems,

    如今我們面臨的是一國兩制的失敗

  • And the road to a high degree of autonomy,

    而香港達成高度自治

  • the path of Hong Kong to a democracy

    和民主的一天

  • is really far away, in fact.

    也顯得更加遙遙無期

  • Do you think there's any hope of maintaining One Coutry - Two Systems with the Communist Party?

    你認為與共產黨維持 一國兩制是有希望的嗎?

  • Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

    抱最好的希望,做最壞的打算

  • It's a long-term battle.

    這是一場長期抗戰

  • I can see the hope from people. But I can't see the hope from Communist Party.

    我從人民身上感受得到希望 但從共產黨則看不見任何希望

  • The people are always the trigger pull to create a miracle.

    人民總是那個能引發奇蹟的關鍵

  • That's why it will be a motivator for me to continue to fight.

    也是使我能持續奮鬥的力量

  • I still have hope for Hong Kongers.

    我對香港人依舊充滿著希望

  • And you co-founded a new party, Demosistō.

    你和其他人共同創立了 一個新政黨叫「香港眾志」

  • What are the goals of that party?

    這個政黨的目標是什麼?

  • What we hope is to push for South determination movement.

    我們希望能推動「南方自決運動」

  • We believe Hong Kong has gained the right of self-determination.

    我們相信香港已具有自決的權力

  • To have a democratic procedure or even referendum

    能形成民主程序,甚至是舉辦公投

  • to decide the constitution,

    並自行決定憲法

  • and sovereignty of Hong Kong after the end of

    確立香港主權

  • 15 years unchanged policy,

    我們希望能在經過 15 年 一成不變的政策之後

  • in 2047.

    於 2047 年前能達成以上的訴求

  • And what does Demosistō think of Hong Kong independence?

    那麼香港眾志對於香港獨立有何看法呢?

  • Is that different from self-determination?

    這與人民自決不同嗎?

  • In fact, in the policy platform of Demosistō, we do not advocate independence.

    事實上,在香港眾志的 政策平台中,我們不主張獨立

  • But what we do believe is the sovereignty of Hong Kong should be decided

    但我們認為香港的主權應由

  • by people in Hong Kong.

    香港人民來決定

  • Of course, the pro-Beijing force would hope to turn One Country - Two System

    當然,親北京派會希望將一國兩制

  • into One Country - One system.

    轉為一國一制

  • But in the referendum, no matter One Country - One System,

    但只要能實踐全民公投 無論是一國一制

  • One Country - Two System,

    一國兩制

  • complete autonomy or independence,

    完全自主或是獨立

  • they can be possible options to let Hong Kongers decide their future.

    這些都是可能的選項 能讓香港人民決定自己的未來

  • And in the Demosistō manifesto, it says people should rise up.

    香港眾志的創黨宣言裡提到: 人民應該要挺身而出反抗政權

  • Are you sure that's a good idea?

    你確定這是個好點子嗎?

  • I would say that,

    我認為

  • Now Hong Kongers are facing the largest communist regime in the world.

    香港人民如今面對的是 世界上最大的共產主義政權

  • It will be a long term battle,

    這會是一場長期抗戰

  • after the Umbrella Movement ended, we may feel downhearted

    在雨傘運動結束後 人們可能會感到心灰意冷

  • and depressed.

    和沮喪

  • But after the legislative election,

    但在歷經立法會選舉、

  • and with the positive result of new generation,

    新一代年輕人的正面支持、

  • and a civil society force to enter the institution,

    以及民間社會力量進入政治體系之後

  • It proved that we need to continue the fight.

    證明我們需要持續奮鬥

  • And in America, there's a feeling that young people don't care about politics.

    在美國許多年輕人都不關心政治

  • Why is Hong Kong making America look bad?

    為何香港人民能讓美國自嘆不如呢?

  • I would say that,

    我的看法是

  • just like the presidential election,

    例如像是總統選舉

  • of course it's hard for the majority

    當然對於大多數的人民

  • young generation or university student

    包括年輕一代或大學生來說

  • to involve or support those mainstream candidates.

    要參與或支持那些主流候選人是很困難的

  • But how they're involved in the crowdfunding campaign of Bernie Sanders

    但是從他們參與伯尼·桑德斯 的群眾集資活動的行動

  • and already proved that, young people, they may be

    已經證明,這些年輕人或許

  • dissatisfied with the old or existing

    對於舊有或現存的

  • institution, traditional politician.

    制度和傳統政治人物感到不滿

  • But they will still hope to gain the new voices and to

    但他們仍希望能擁有新的聲音

  • get the change to the system.

    並希望政治體系能有所改變

  • It's also the reason for me to

    而這也是為什麼我

  • found the political party after the end of the Umbrella Movement.

    在雨傘運動結束後會創立一個政黨

  • It's necessary for us to keep the momentum and let

    我們必須保持氣勢

  • people in Hong Kong and the world know that

    讓香港人民與全世界知道

  • young generation in Hong Kong will still continue to strike on the street,

    香港的年輕一代依舊 會持續上街頭抗議

  • but also enter the institution to be the legislator.

    並且會設法進入立法會成為議員

  • So recently, you met with politicians in the US.

    最近你與美國的幾位政治人物會面

  • What's your hopes for the US getting involved?

    你對美國參與香港議題的期待是什麼?

  • The threat of China is not just only affecting people in Hong Kong, China, or Taiwan.

    來自中國的威脅不僅只 影響香港、中國與台灣人民

  • It affects the whole of Southeast Asia or Asia-Pacific.

    它還影響了整個東南亞與亞太地區

  • Just like I've been blacklisted by Malaysia,

    例如像是我被馬來西亞列入黑名單

  • and Thai government detained me -

    而且被泰國政府居留過

  • all because they hope to maintain

    這都是因為他們希望與

  • foreign relationship with China and Beijing government!

    中國和北京政府維持邦交關係!

  • So I would say that,

    所以我的看法是

  • I just urge the international community

    我呼籲國際社會

  • to keep their eyes in Hong Kong.

    密切關注香港局勢

  • And just like how Senators Rubio and Cotton

    正如同美國參議員魯比歐和柯頓

  • have raised the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act

    提出了《香港人權與民主法案》

  • to show the support of the international community

    以表示國際社會對於

  • on the democracy movement in Hong Kong.

    香港民主運動的支持

  • It will be a positive trend in the future.

    而這會成為未來正向的趨勢

  • Now you and I have both been accused of being in the CIA.

    你和我都曾被指控為美國中情局工作

  • Are you a part of the CIA?

    請問你是中情局的一員嗎?

  • Of course not!

    當然不是啊!

  • Yeah, they were saying I'm a CIA agent.

    沒錯,人們都說我是中情局特務

  • And also, claim that I've been controlled,

    而且聲稱我受到美國政府的控制

  • that I've been receiving training from US Marines...

    並且接受美國海軍陸戰隊的訓練…

  • I just remember the comment of my peers,

    我只記得我的同伴對此的評論是:

  • "Comparing your body size to Tom Cruise, of course you're not a CIA agent!"

    「你的身材和湯姆克魯斯差那麼多 怎麼可能是中情局特務!」

  • Well, that's exactly what a CIA agent would say.

    嗯,這聽起來正像是 一位中情局特務會說的話

  • So what's your view on Yau Wai-ching and Baggio Leung's oath-taking?

    那麼,你對於游蕙禎和梁頌恆議員 的就職宣誓事件有什麼看法嗎?

  • I would say that I disagree with using this kind of racist term

    我想我不同意使用這種種族歧視的字眼

  • to do it for the message in the oath.

    來作為宣誓內容

  • If they support Hong Kong independence, they can directly voice out the slogan of,

    若是他們支持香港獨立 他們大可直接高呼口號

  • they can demand Hong Kong independence instead of using this kind of

    或是可以提出香港獨立的訴求 而非使用這種詆毀字眼

  • terms, or words to elaborate on their political stance.

    來闡述他們的政治立場

  • But I would say that the disqualified

    但我想說的是 北京政府取消

  • by Beijing is just

    這兩位議員的資格

  • proving how Beijing

    證明了北京政府

  • betrayed and ignored their promise in the joint declaration.

    背叛且忽略他們在聯合聲明中所做的承諾

  • Especially on how they

    尤其是他們

  • would try to override the judicial system and legislature.

    試圖凌駕於司法制度與立法會之上

  • And the whole of the system is just for viewing the interests of Beijing.

    而這整個政治體系只單純 著眼於北京政府的利益

  • And just to clarify for the audience,

    在此我想先向觀眾解釋清楚

  • When you mentioned the slur, it was the specific use of

    你剛才提到所謂的詆毀 具體來說是使用了

  • the term, "Chee-na,"

    「支那」這個詞彙

  • Which is what the Japanese used to refer to the Chinese during World War II,

    而這是日本人在第二次世界大戰 期間用來稱呼中國的字眼

  • which has become somewhat of a racial slur.

    如今變成有點種族歧視的詞彙

  • You were refused entry to both Thailand and Malaysia.

    你曾被拒絕入境泰國和馬來西亞

  • Are there other countries that you're banned from visiting?

    你有遭其他國家拒絕入境嗎?

  • Of course! Mainland China.

    當然有啊,中國大陸

  • Yeah, and I've been invited by the activist group

    是的,我之前曾受新加坡

  • in Singapore that supports Amos Yee

    支持余澎杉的社運團體所邀請

  • but because, due to my personal safety,

    但因為考量到我的人身安全

  • I just suggested to have a Skype conference with them

    我後來只提議與他們進行 Skype 視訊會議

  • because I don't want to be detained

    因為我不想再一次被拘留在

  • in Bangkok, in a detention cell again.

    類似曼谷的看守所

  • Are you concerned for your safety? I know you've gotten

    你會擔心你個人的安全嗎? 我知道你曾被

  • beaten up, bloodied.

    毆打流血

  • It's really inconvenient, being Hong Kongist.

    在香港當社運人士真的很不方便

  • I have been blacklisted by most Southeast Asia countries already.

    我已經被大多數東南亞國家列入黑名單

  • So no matter,

    所以無論何時

  • in the holiday, if I hope to get a trip

    比方說我想利用假期去海外旅行

  • overseas, my options are quite limited.

    我的選項會相當受限

  • And I know when you were just 18,

    我知道在你 18 歲那年

  • Fortune Magazine listed you as one of the greatest leaders in the world.

    美國的《財星》雜誌將你 選為世界最傑出的領袖之一

  • Do you have any advice for other inspiring great leaders? I'm asking for a friend.

    你對其他同樣鼓舞人心的傑出領袖有什麼建議嗎? 這是幫我朋友問的

  • I would say that,

    我會說

  • Fortune Magazine in 1997

    《財星》雜誌在 1997 年

  • had a cover story with the title, "The Death of Hong Kong."

    有一期的封面故事標題為「香港之死」

  • But 18 years later, they chose me to be the

    但在 18 年後,他們將我選為

  • "10 Greatest Leaders in the World."

    「世界十大傑出領袖」

  • I'm not saying I'm the greatest leader in the world. I actually disagree on this.

    我並不是要說我是最偉大的領袖 我其實不同意這點

  • But I think it just proves to the world

    但我認為這向世界證明了

  • if you guys think Hong Kong is already dead,

    假如有人認為香港已死

  • it's wrong.

    那就大錯特錯了

  • We face the death of One Country - Two System.

    我們面臨的是一國兩制之死

  • We face the failure of high degree autonomy.

    我們面臨的是高度自治的失敗

  • But it's not the death of Hong Kong.

    但這並非香港之死

  • Because Hong Kongers are still passionate,

    因為香港人民仍然充滿熱忱

  • and have our courage, and will fight for democracy.

    與勇氣,並且會繼續為了民主而奮鬥

  • One more question:

    最後一個問題

  • Would you mind joining me in a round of "Do You Hear the People Sing?"

    你願意和我高歌一曲 《你可聽見人民的歌聲?》嗎

  • Do you hear the people sing, Sing the song of angry men?

    你可聽見人民的歌聲? 唱著義憤者之歌

  • It's the music of the people who will not be slaves again!

    這是不再甘願為奴的人民之歌!

  • When the beating of your heart Echoes the beating of the drums

    當你的心呼應著戰鼓的聲響

  • There is a life about to start When tomorrow comes.

    一個嶄新時代 即將在明日來臨

  • Yeah, I love your YouTube channel.

    我很愛你的 YouTube 頻道

  • We got that on camera!

    我們拍到他講這句話了!

  • Great! Thanks, Josh.

    太好了!謝謝你,之鋒

  • Subscribe it! Subscribe! Yes! Yes!

    - 訂閱此頻道! - 訂閱! 沒錯!沒錯!

Would you mind joining me in a round of "Do You Hear the People Sing?"

你願意和我高歌一曲 《你可聽見人民的歌聲?》嗎

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