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Hey, it’s Marie Forleo and you are watching MarieTV, the place to be to create a business
and life you love. If you or anyone you love ever suffers from stress or anxiety or depression
and you want a science-backed, holistic approach to reclaim your health on every level, this
episode is for you.
Dr. Kelly Brogan is a Manhattan based holistic women’s health psychiatrist and mother of
two. She’s the author of A Mind of Your Own and coeditor of the landmark textbook
Integrative Therapies for Depression. She graduated from Cornell University Medical
College, completed her psychiatric training and fellowship at NYU Medical Center, and
has a BS from MIT in Systems Neuroscience. Kelly helps women break down the misconceptions
of an outdated and broken healthcare system that’s keeping them sick, confused, and
dependent by giving them the tools to become a happier, healthier person. She’s board
certified in psychiatry, psychosomatic medicine, and integrative holistic medicine, and is
specialized in a root cause resolution approach to psychiatric syndromes and symptoms.
Kelly, thank you so much for coming on the show.
I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
So I wanted to frame this conversation from a few different viewpoints. One, we’re gonna
talk about depression but I feel like everything that you teach about, that you write about,
that you speak about also applies if we’re feeling fatigued or stressed or that we just
have a foggy brain. Is that accurate?
Yeah. Struggling basically.
And then the second thing, obviously your book – it’s aimed at women. But for all
of our fellows in the audience, everything we’re gonna talk about today is equally
as applicable to men as it is to women. Yeah?
Yes. You can ignore the pink cover. It’s true. It’s true.
So you say depression is one of the most grossly misdiagnosed and mistreated conditions today,
especially among women. That 1 in 7 are medicated. And you also say depression is a gift and
that we should thank our bodies for giving us this signal. What does that mean?
Yeah. So the first, most important premise is to understand what I learned after going
back into the literature, you know, learning a certain story about depression from my training
as a conventional psychiatrist. I had to unlearn a lot of that to get at the truth of what
it is. And, in fact, it’s not a disease. Not a disease in the way we think of diseases
as being something you inherit, something that’s understood in terms of the bodily
biology, and then something that requires, you know, really only one path of treatment:
lifelong chemical prescriptions. Right?
So depression is a diagnosis made through a conversation like this. It’s really like
a collection of symptoms and in many ways it’s like a syndrome. So if you look at
it that way, then you can understand that it has many different potential drivers. Right?
There are many paths to it. So it’s sort of like if your toe hurts it could hurt because
you dropped a hammer on it, because you have an infection in your toenail, because you
have a string tied around it too tight. And the hurting is just an expression on your
body's part that something’s up. Right? It’s asking for your attention.
And so, you know, through my research I’ve understood and clinical experience that there
are many, many reversible, if not all reversible, causes of depression or ways to move through
it, you know, as a healing journey. And you have to understand what is driving it in your
particular case to understand how you could possibly reverse it.
And I think something about seeing it as a gift, not that you’re…
It’s provocative. I know.
Not that you’re broken. Not that there’s something inherently wrong with you or that
you necessarily have to carry this with you forever more for the rest of your life. I
think that was something that really hit home for me because there’s so much shame if
you feel depressed, or at least there can be. And I love that reframing that … no,
no, no. This can be a gift, not only to wake up to something that you can heal, but also
to a process of transformation.
Absolutely. I mean, it’s become my belief that the body is one of the most sophisticated,
you know, mechanisms on the planet. And we are just beginning to look through the keyhole
of how it does what it does. And so it doesn't really make mistakes. Any time you have a
symptom, anything from a sore throat to a headache to something like, you know, mania,
it’s actually an expression on the part of the body. It’s attempting to get your
attention so that you can look at different areas of imbalance in your life. And those
can be nutritional, you know, they can be environmental, or they can be psychospiritual.
And when you begin to attend to that area, things will shift and change. And in this
way, you know, depression or really all mental illness from my perspective, it’s the beginning
of your next chapter if you pay attention to it. And sometimes, you know, we can look
at choosing to medicate it as potentially opting out of your own journey. And it’s
a very different perspective, but I see every single day in my practice what it is to move
through the experience of struggling, pain, grief, suffering rather than attempting to
stuff it in a box.
So you wrote, “Not a single study has proven that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain. And depression is not about the brain per se.” I’m curious, what are
some of the primary triggers?
Yeah. So I think there are probably four or so very common ones that are highly, highly
treatable. Really quite easy to reverse. And many of them have, you know, in common that
they, you know, relate to the body’s language of distress or rebalancing, which is inflammation.
This is kind of a buzzword and for a reason. Because all of the diseases, so to speak,
of modern civilization whether it’s autoimmunity or cancer or heart disease or diabetes – and
I am trying to include all mental illnesses under this umbrella – often relate, if not
always relate on some level, to the activation of this system for rebalancing, which is the
inflammatory system. It’s the immune system. It’s the way, again, that our body attempts
to adapt to a given trigger. And that trigger can be stress related. You know, you can feel
psychological stress and actually have mobilization of inflammatory messengers from the rest of
your body. Or you can eat something, you know, that disturbs your gut balance that then drives
inflammation from your gut to your brain. So there are many, many different pathways.
But most of the interventions are really quite similar. So that’s why I love what I do
because it’s really quite easy. You know, relative to the complexities of pharmacology.
You can meet the body with a set of very powerful, elegant tools that really put everything into
balance.
So it’s sometimes interesting just to think about what’s driving it even if the intervention
is the same. So one of the most common ones is blood sugar imbalance. I treat women in
my practice and I would say the vast majority, if not all of them, struggle with some degree
of blood sugar imbalance. And, again, there’s nothing wrong with the body’s response.
When you eat a bagel and your blood sugar skyrockets, your insulin is secreted like
a tidal wave to suppress that blood sugar, and then you’re dipping low and an hour
and a half later you’re hangry. Right? You’re starving, you’re irritable, even jittery,
headachey. I’ve had patients who have had frank panic attacks because of this process.
Your body is not messing up. It’s meeting an unnatural demand in the way that it knows
how. It’s attempting to alert you to the fact that you probably shouldn’t be consuming
that if you want to, you know, reinforce the best gene expression, so to speak, in all
of your different systems.
So blood sugar imbalance can account for things like fogginess, insomnia, you know, you could
land a diagnosis of ADHD because of it or all types of anxiety, flatness. And it is
so simple to resolve, even sometimes in 10 days to two weeks with a high in natural fat
diet.
Relatedly, there are a number of food-based triggers that are almost always processed
foods that I've come to see as really powerful leverage points, like sort of game changers.
And I would say the top two ones are wheat and dairy. So like the best foods. Basically
the things that taste the best, you know, the things that you feel like I’m gonna
have to rip out of your cold, dead hands. You know? Because they’re … some people
think like, “Well, I’d rather be depressed than not eat pizza.” Or some people think
like, “I don't know what I would be eating if I didn't eat wheat and dairy.” And almost
always I get excited by that because the change that could come from that type of a relationship
when adjusted is profound.
I mean, there are reports in the medical literature very recently, a 37 year old woman who was
so psychotic that her family took out a restraining order on her. She became homeless. They treated
her with all sorts of medication that was ineffective. They ultimately found out that
she had wheat sensitivity, put her on a gluten free diet for three months, she was totally
normal. Totally back to her normal self.
And so this is not just about weight loss or a wellness fad. It’s a very real driver
of what we are calling mental illness. And it’s an experiment you can do on your own.
You know? There’s so much information out there on how to eliminate wheat and, you know,
processed dairy that it’s really quite easy to do and can be a massive game changer. Again,
not just for your psychiatric symptoms, but the potential side benefits are really, you
know, could be a long list.
So another area I focus a lot on is medications. Because when I began to research, you know,
sort of a broader truth about psychiatric medications I left no stone unturned. So I
looked at all the medications I used to take: birth control, Tylenol, Advil, antibiotics.
And I began to understand that some of these very, very common medications have untold
psychiatric side effects. You know?
So you could be, for example, eating a bit of the wrong diet and taking, let’s say,
an acid blocker because you get indigestion every time you have dinner. And over time,
you know, those medications are now over the counter and they’re only ever studied for
six weeks of use. So let’s say it’s been two years you’ve been taking this acid blocker,
you develop well documented B12 deficiency. Again, B12 deficiency, in and of itself, can
drive not only catastrophic depression but also dementia. I mean, this is, again, not
like a minor, you know, side effect.
And so this cascade of medication, side effects leading to psychiatric medication prescribing,
is something that it might be hard to connect those dots if you’re not aware that it’s
even possible. Right?
Birth control is a big one. You know, I took birth control for 12 years. I thought it was
a feminist entitlement, you know, for me to be able to get my period when I felt like
getting it. And, again, the idea is a very valuable one, but in practice I think women
are really being victimized by this medication, because there is literature to support the
fact that it’s proinflammatory, it induces nutrient depletion, and it can lead directly
to psychiatric prescribing. I mean, there was just a million person study completed
over 13 years showing that teens who are prescribed birth control have an 80% increased risk of
being prescribed an antidepressant.
It was very true, actually, for me in my early 20s when I had to get off of it immediately.
Yes, sometimes it’s very clear.
It was so clear … I felt like a different human being.
But, see, you should thank yourself.
I totally did. I was like this is not working.
Because when you have those extreme reactions, that’s where the gift is because if it was
a subtle thing, you know, you could’ve gone five, ten, fifteen years on this medication
that was subtly changing your biochemistry, subtly changing your personality even.
That’s how it felt, actually.
And your whole path could’ve been derailed.
Yeah. Very, very different. One of the things that I appreciated in your book: you shared
we’ve reached a point in our evolution where our health is being outpaced by our lifestyles
and how we’re biologically designed to live. And there were three points and I thought
these were so simple and yet so profound.
We’re idle when our bodies want to move, we eat unrecognizable foods, and we expose
ourselves to environmental factors that assault our cells. It is extraordinary to me how true
this is and how so many of us, millions of us, are just … we’re stuck behind our
desks, we’re staring at computers, we have electronics with us all the time, and it’s
nearly impossible to get us to move.
You know, whenever I talk with my family or with close friends and I’m like, “We need
to take a walk. We need to get you walking.” And I even have to say this to myself because
I can fall that easy victim to that as well when the pressures get too high. Is this something
... are these kind of the three factors that you see so much when people come into your
practice?
Absolutely. And, you know, it’s almost like we’re being reminded. That’s why I talk
about, you know, depression as being a gift. Because we’re being reminded of something
we’ve forgotten. And in the medical literature it’s actually termed evolutionary mismatch.
You know, these illnesses like depression that are skyrocketing in incidence, part of
the reason is because we are living in a way that we have not evolved to live. And so the
body is basically screaming, you know, “get back to basics.”
There’s a really powerful book from the 70’s called The Continuum Concept and it’s
this idea that we have evolved. Like this, again, very elegant organism, to expect a
certain set of exposures from birth. You know, from birth all the way through infancy through
the rest of our lives. And when we depart from, that we’re gonna be called back. And
the way that we’re called back to that continuum is really through these kinds of symptoms.
And that’s why anyone who has recovered themselves, you know, I’ve put an autoimmune
thyroid condition into remission, which was really my entry point into all of these principles.
Anyone who has recovered themselves and defied conventional medical odds has done so by just
getting back to basics. And it’s like they just awaken to the simplicity of it. But often
we need a bit of fear, you know, we need a bit of struggle. Sometimes you really need
to hit a rock bottom or go through a dark night of the soul to be really awakened to
what is possible if we just begin to live the way we’re meant to live.
And that’s through moving, through sun exposure, through honoring our sleep cycles and daily
rhythms. For women it’s relating better to your hormonal existence as a cyclical process.
And, of course, I feel most importantly, it’s working with food as information. Right?
Food is not what, you know, sometimes it still is to me, which is just a way to make myself
not hungry anymore. You know? Get it done in seven minutes. That’s all I have time
for. It’s a way to bridge your body and the environment that you’re a part of. It’s
an informational exchange. And when we forget that, we’re gonna be reminded.
What are, for anyone listening saying, “Okay, this sounds incredible. I’m in. Wanna get
the book. Wanna start cleaning this.” What are some of the everyday triggers that might
be hiding in their medicine cabinet or their kitchen or underneath their sink in their
cleaning materials that may be contributors to them not feeling their best?
Yeah. So I often say start with changing your breakfast. And it’s so funny because I love
to write and I blog a lot, right? And sometimes I’ll spend three months on one blog. All
of the links to the primary literature and I spend all of this time and effort on it.
Blood, sweat, and tears. And two people read it.
And then I wrote this blog about what I eat for breakfast. What I discovered through my
own healing journey was something really … a powerful way to reverse my own blood sugar
issues. And it is hands down the most viral post I’ve ever … it took me seven minutes
to write it. Literally.
Isn’t that funny though?
It’s like this smoothie recipe that I made up. So it’s … so, for example, it’s
made with egg yolks, with coconut oil, with nut butter, with ghee, which is like a clarified
butter that doesn't have the protein we’re most concerned about when it comes to sort
of brain behavioral, cognition types of concerns. And then it’s coconut water, cocoa powder,
and then any kind of fruit you like. So I use frozen cherries. It tastes like chocolate
milk, it’s totally delicious. And I went from being starving after eating cereal or,
you know, like some kind of a processed bar or a bagel. Starving in an hour and a half
that now if I don't have lunch for 6, 6 and a half hours, it’s totally comfortable.
So that is one of the simple ways to begin to see how your entire performance in your
life can change based on what you ate for breakfast.
So I’ve really developed a pretty strong concern about most medications. I also think
there’s a better way. So when you engage in a medication intervention, not only are
you opting out of that invitation, right? So you’re not going to learn that the reason
you have headaches is because, you know, of your blood sugar imbalance or because of your
wheat sensitivity or because of another medication you’re taking. You’re never gonna learn
that.
So in that way, you know, it’s sort of like if you were to take a Tylenol for a piece
of glass in your foot. Like, don't you just want to get the glass out? It makes more sense,
right? So while I have concern about the opt-out that happens when you choose to take a medication,
I also have concern about sometimes the potentially quite significant side effects that no one
told you were even possible.
So, again, the common ones that I highlight are, you know, common painkillers. I mean,
there was a recent study out that showed that Tylenol actually has emotional numbing effects.
How would you ever connect those dots if you didn't know that the scientific literature
was suggesting that it doesn't just do this one little thing it says it does? You know,
with pharmaceutical medicine we’re sort of under the impression we can just pull one
little piece of the spiderweb and leave the whole thing intact. But, of course, the whole
thing moves when you pull a little piece of it. Right?
I think we’re starting to wake up to that, especially for anyone who ever sees the pharmaceutical
ads on tv. And you see the happy little purple person and then the list of potential side
effects, it’s like …
And those aren’t even the whole story.
… you may want to kill yourself and then kill your entire family and then you’re
gonna have hotdog fingers and projectile vomiting possibly, and then 15 other things. And sometimes
I will sit there with my jaw on the ground saying, “how is this legal?”
I know. I know. Well, it’s that we all have colluded. We all have. It’s not just pharma,
it’s not just doctors. It’s all of us. Because we go to our doctors and we ask for
the quick fix. You know, we ask for the magic pill. And what I’ve really come to discover
is – there’s no such thing. There really is no such thing. That medications over promise,
they underdeliver, and there’s often an untold story about their potential side effects
and there’s an easier way. It may seem more challenging because it involves behavioral
change, but it’s uncomfortable for maybe two weeks. And then what is possible is so
thrilling. I mean, it’s really profound.
Yeah. That has been something very personal for me. A few years ago we were struggling
because my dad with type 2 diabetes.
Yes.
And got him off of all but one of his medications. And that was a really, really big deal. And
so now I’m constantly hawkish with them. They just recently moved, my dad is going
to a new doctors, and my mom had stepped in because the doctor was trying to push more
medications on him. And I was like, “Nuh-uh. No. We’re not going there again. What do
we need to reexamine in the diet and lifestyle that we need to pump back up so he’s not
going back?”
That’s the thing. I mean, you know more than that doctor does arguably. Because I
had the same training that doctor did in medical school. We have about an hour on average of
nutrition-based education in medical school. Your doctor is unfortunately totally ill equipped
to help. And they want to help, but the only tools that we’re given are pharmaceutical
tools. So that’s what’s amazing about the internet. You know? Is that the average
lay person knows more about how to heal than a conventionally trained doctor.
And so my sort of mark of success in my practice is for my patients never to see a doctor again.
Including me. And I think that’s absolutely possible when you shift your mindset and begin
to trust that everything you encounter is, again, a message you probably need to work
with and that you always have the tools. That’s why I’m really, really passionate about
this 30 day intervention. And I rule with a bit of an iron fist because I think that
every adult deserves one month of their life to learn about the relationship to their diet.
And you have that information forever. You can do with it what you want to. Right?
So in that month I asked people to take out coffee. So I practice in New York.
Yeah.
This is a big challenge. Coffee, alcohol is often an even bigger ask. Even for people
who don't think of themselves as having a problem with alcohol. I ask them to take out
all grains just to make it almost simple, but also because certain grains we want to
use strategically. Things like rice get introduced again later because they have a very special,
you know, rice has a special property in terms of seeding your gut in a good way. But we
want to sort of clear the slate before we do that. So all grains, all dairy, all sugar.
And we’re really left, people sort of say well …
What am I gonna eat?
But actually you’re just eating food. Right? So my protocol, somewhat controversially – including
to myself because I was a former ethical vegetarian. Of course, back in the day that meant like
Doritos and Pepsi. But nonetheless, I had a lot of struggle ethically with the idea
of progressing to a healing diet that involved animal food. And my protocol not only involves
animal food but actually red meat specifically.
So we’re eating animal food, we’re eating eggs, we’re eating fish, poultry, red meat,
pork, the whole thing. And then all vegetables are on board, as should be the case for pretty
much any nutritional protocol you’re engaging. But including starchy ones like sweet potato.
And then we’re gonna eat nuts and seeds and a lot of oil. So those oils in the smoothie
I mentioned. So things like coconut oil, ghee, olive oil, avocado. And natural salt and a
ton of filtered water. And that’s it.
And it ends up being, you know, simple intervention that can shift so many different data points
literally in the space of two weeks. But I ask for the month and I ask for it with 100%
commitment. No like “I was starving so I got a piece of pizza one day.” No like “oh,
my best girlfriend is getting married. I have to have a bite of cake.” Nothing. Don't
pick that month. Pick another month where you can really do it. Because by the end of
that month you will have the information you need. And then if you have a cup of coffee
and you feel irritable and like you need a nap 6 hours later and then you can’t sleep
that night, well good. You don't have generalized anxiety and you’re not an irritable person
and you don't have insomnia. You just have that relationship to coffee. Now you know.
Good. So it’s about self education and really connecting dots for your own self empowerment.
There’s two things I wanna cover. One, I can hear some people saying when you made
the comment, “hopefully you’ll never have to go to a doctor again.” I can hear people
going, “But wait. I’ve just got this diagnosis – a life threatening diagnosis.” And I
can hear them railing against that. So I would imagine that for you, and I’m curious to
hear your response to this. Arming yourself with the knowledge of how to heal your own
body and understanding how your own system relates to different foods, should you bump
up against one of those things in your life you can then take that knowledge to a particular
specialist who then you can work with from an educated standpoint. So I’m curious to
hear how you …
This is a great question and, again, remember that I am totally conventionally trained,
dyed in the wool. I come from the perspective that if you were to not go to, not only a
doctor but an ivy league trained doctor, then you’re being irresponsible and reckless.
So I get that mentality 100%.
But the way that my path has unfolded, not only have I healed myself from a condition
that I was only ever taught in medical school should be chronic and unremitting and even
disabling, and I don't take any prescriptions at this point in my life. But I also had the
deep privilege of working with Dr. Nick Gonzalez who is a … who passed tragically last year,
and who is a doctor who worked with end of the road cancer patients. So terminal metastatic
cancer patients. So doesn't get worse, right, probably than that diagnostic category. And
I watched him with hundreds of people put their cases into not only remission, which
defies any medical outcomes I’ve ever read about – and I read the literature for 4
hours every Saturday for 14 years – and I have never heard of cases in the conventional
literature with all that chemotherapy, radiation, and surgery have to offer that matched his
outcomes. 34 year survivor of metastatic pancreatic cancer. Doesn't exist. And he did this through
nutritional protocols. And so I had the honor of working with him, learning from him, and
having him influence my own work.
So for me there really is no carve out, but the important caveat is that we often need
… I think of myself a like a helper. Right? So I’m a helper for certain people at a
time and window in their life, and then they take the reins and they are healed.
And often we need a helper. We need a teacher. We need a guide. You’re probably not going
to find that in someone who has a fundamentally different belief system than you about the
body’s capacity to heal. But you will find it in someone who shares that belief system
even if they sort of do it in a different way than you heard about from somewhere else
or than you’ve been doing it.
So naturopaths, chiropractors, functional medicine trained doctors, holistically oriented
doctors know this language. You know, you will be speaking the same language. So seek
out that person. Don't argue with your doctor. You shouldn't be arguing with your doctor.
You should be partners on the same team always and with the same goal in mind. And so it’s
becoming easier and easier to find these kinds of people and easier to find the information
on your own actually on the internet. But I do believe in that healing partnership,
I just think it’s very challenging when you have to educate your doctor. It’s a
challenging kind of dynamic.
Let’s talk about the power of exercise and meditation. So we know about ... it sounds
… food. Ultimately primary. Your informing … the information you put in your body.
How about exercise and meditation?
Yeah. So exercise was a tough one for me, because before I was diagnosed with a thyroid
condition I never exercised. I didn't even understand why people would exercise. It’s
really uncomfortable and it takes a lot of time. I don't get why people are so into it.
So I went to the literature again and I found that actually what’s called low volume,
high-intensity exercise is more effective than daily cardio. So it’s called burst
training or interval training. So how awesome is that? So you do less and you get more.
So I actually only ask my patients if they’re not already exercising to do 20 minutes a
week of sweat inducing. You know, it can be done on an elliptical, you can do military
burpees, you can do jumping jacks, you can use a jump rope. And the idea is 30 seconds
of really high intensity. You know, like a lion is chasing you kind of a thing, 90% of
your effort. 90 seconds of recovery. And you do 8 cycles of that.
And that’s sort of like a gateway ideally. I happen to think that for the women I work
with, for the population I work with, that dance is actually really important and movement.
And I hate that kind of exercise. The 20 minutes I just described is not enjoyable for me.
So I … that was a gateway for me. Now I dance several times a week. And I feel like
not only do I exercise, but I experience a kind of freedom, joy, and feminine empowerment
that I wouldn't have access to if I was just exercising to exercise. But often you need
to get there and find your own favorite type of movement. But so I only ask for 20 minutes
a week.
The meditation piece was another point of resistance for me. Because I got with the
food thing, I put my condition into remission, and I thought, “Okay, cool. I’m done.”
But I was still my, like, stressed out self just living like now a food-based neurotic
lifestyle. And I really was thriving on stress in a way that, again, I was invited to look
at by the fact that after my second pregnancy I had a bit of a relapse thyroid-wise and
I … that was when I changed. That was when I said, “okay, there’s something I’m
missing here.”
And I have followed the literature on meditation, it’s like 40 years of literature that says
that you can just meditation for 20 minutes listening to someone talk you through a meditation
and all sorts of gene expression changes in your body. From longevity genes to insulin
sensitivity genes. It’s so simple. Do it. And I never did it. Still. So for me the game
changed when I discovered Kundalini Yoga meditation. And it’s a very, very old branch of yoga.
Some people argue it’s the oldest branch, because it incorporates all different kinds
of modalities from hand movements to different kinds of breath to different kinds of mental
focus and sometimes movement.
And it’s … I sort of think of it as meditation for people who suck at meditating because
it keeps you really busy. So a given meditation I might have my fingers doing a certain thing,
breathing in through my nose, out through my mouth, and in through my mouth and out
through my nose. I might be looking at a certain place. And imagining sort of hearing a mantra
in my head. And so it sort of gives you the benefit even if you’re thinking about … if
you can still think about what you need to buy at CVS. You know? It works, so to speak.
And the other reason that I like it is because you can start with three minutes. And so I
ask my patients to start with three minutes a day and I’ll assign them a given meditation.
You can go online and you can Google “Kundalini Yoga meditation digestion” or “heartbreak”
or “intuition” or “anxiety” and there are thousands of them, totally free that you
can do on your own. And even if they say start at 11 minutes, you can just start at three.
And so everyone has three minutes. Maybe not five, but everyone has three. And so I ask
people to just set their alarm clock for 5 minutes earlier and it’s a point of entry.
And, again, I’ve dug up the literature on this which says that all sorts of things can
shift and change, but maybe most importantly, you're sending your body – you’re sending
your nervous system a signal of safety. And you’re telling yourself everything is actually
okay. Because I wouldn’t be stopping for even three minutes if I was in the fight or
flight state that I am in the rest of the day. So it’s almost like an interruption
of a cycle or a pattern. For me, my entire nervous system was rewired in two months of
early morning meditation. I started with three minutes and now I do 45 minutes every morning.
No compromise, no exceptions, like no excuses. And I … I need it. You know? I don't think
I would be able to … I would’ve gone much farther on that path without another diagnosis
had I not made this change. So I’m really passionate about it.
Thank you so much for your work, Kelly. I am just in love with your book and who you
are and what you’re bringing to the world. And I want to wrap up with a question that
you ask actually on your about page.
Yes.
And I think it’s a powerful question for everyone in our audience to consider. I’m
curious why you have it on your page. So “what is the happiest, healthiest version of yourself
that you can imagine?” How can this question help us?
I think it’s interesting because “happy” is a word that I think we need to almost abandon
in a way. It’s like a gateway to a bigger question, which is like, “do we really just
want to be happy?” Because I think that so many of us feel deep down something is
missing. Like something is off. And we don't know how to get to the thing we know is missing,
but we have some sort of hope or faith that eventually we’ll find it. Otherwise we wouldn't
just be on this hamster wheel punching the clock to survive until we die, which so many
people feel they are doing. Right?
So when I ask people to imagine their more vital self, it’s more than just some sort
of fantasy exercise. There’s actually data to suggest that when you sit and inhabit something
that you want for yourself, it becomes more likely. It’s called morphic resonance in
quantum physics. So the idea to sort of inhabit what it is that you think would be that … the
fulfilment of that missing piece.
And so for most of the women that I work with it’s, you know, it’s not feeling like
euphoria every day. It’s actually feeling gratitude. I think of gratitude as being the
antidote to depression. Because when you can feel that expansive sensation, and you can
experience really the wonder of it all, you’re never gonna be able to move into that space
of victimization or rage or frustration and hopelessness. It’s almost impossible. So
it’s a powerful exercise to begin to just play with this idea that something maybe you
can’t even quite envision yet is possible for you.
Thank you so much for coming on the show, Kelly.
Total pleasure. Total pleasure. Thank you.
Now Kelly and I would love to hear from you. So we talked about a lot of different things
today, but I’m curious: what’s one specific action you can start taking starting right
now to reclaim your health? Leave us a comment below and let us know.
Now, as always, the best conversations happen after the episode over at MarieForleo.com,
so go there and leave a comment now. And when you’re there, if you’re not already, be
sure to subscribe and become an MF Insider. You’ll get instant access to a powerful
audio I created called How To Get Anything You Want and you’ll also get some exclusive
content and special giveaways and insights from me that I just don’t share anywhere
else.
Stay on your game and keep going for your dreams because the world needs that special
gift that only you have. Thank you so much for watching and I’ll catch you next time
on MarieTV.
Ready to find your voice and sell with heart? We’ll show you how. Get started now with
our free writing class at TheCopyCure.com. Side effects include enlarged profits.
The body is one of the most sophisticated mechanisms on the planet. And we are just
beginning to look through the keyhole of how it does what it does. And so it doesn't really
make mistakes.
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改變你對憂鬱症的看法 (Kelly Brogan Will Change The Way You Think About Depression)

978 分類 收藏
Ken Song 發佈於 2017 年 4 月 11 日
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