in Hempstead, New York,

霍夫斯特拉大學

I'm Lester Holt,

我是 NBC 晚間新聞主播

anchor of NBC Nightly News.

萊斯特霍爾特

I wanna welcome you to the first presidential debate.

歡迎收看第一場總統大選辯論

The participants tonight are Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

今晚出席的是特朗普和希拉里

This debate is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debate.

辯論由總統辯論委員會贊助

It's a non-partisan, non-profit organisation.

它是無黨派、非牟利組織

The Commission drafted tonight's format

委員會草擬今晚的形式

and the rules have been agreed to by the campaigns.

規則得到雙方陣營批准

The 90-minute debate is divided into six segments,

90 分鐘長的辯論分為六節

each 15 minutes long.

每節 15 分鐘

We'll explore three topic areas tonight.

今晚會討論三個議題：

Achieving prosperity, America's direction

如何達致經濟繁榮、美國的方向

and securing America.

以及保障國家安全

At the start of each segment, I will ask the same lead-off question

每節一開始，我會向兩名候選人

to both candidates

問同一個問題

and they will each have up to two minutes to respond.

他們有兩分鐘時間回應

From that point until the end of the segment, we'll have an open discussion.

從那時至環節末尾是自由討論時間

The questions are mine

問題一直在我手上

and have not been shared with the Commission or the campaigns.

事前不曾向委員會或兩陣營披露

The audience here in the room has agreed to remain silent,

現場觀眾已答應保持安靜

so that we can focus on what the candidates are saying.

讓大家可以留心聆聽候選人的言論

I will invite you to applaud, however, at this moment,

現在請以熱烈掌聲

as we welcome the candidates.

歡迎兩名候選人出場

Democratic nominee for President of the United States, Hillary Clinton,

民主黨總統候選人希拉里

and Republican nominee for President of the United States, Donald]. Trump.

以及共和黨總統候選人特朗普

- Hey. How are you, Donald? - I'm good, Hillary.

特朗普，你好嗎？ 我很好

I'm on.

我已準備好

- Good luck to you. - And to you, thank you.

祝你好運 謝謝

- Trump, good luck to you. - Thank you.

特朗普，祝你好運 謝謝

Well, I don't expect us

我不期望今晚

to cover all the issues of this campaign tonight,

會覆蓋競選期間所有議題

but I remind everyone, there are two more presidential debates scheduled.

但我們還安排了另外兩場總統辯論

We are gonna focus on many of the issues that voters tell us are most important

我們會集中討論選民最關注的議題

then we're gonna press for specifics.

並要求候選人就某些重點表態

I am honoured to have this role,

我很榮幸可以出任主持人

but this evening belongs to the candidates,

但今晚的焦點是兩位候選人

and just as important to the American people.

對美國人亦同樣重要

Candidates, we look forward to hear you

候選人，我們期望聽到你們的…

articulate your policies and your positions,

政綱、立場

as well as your visions and your values.

願景以及價值觀

So let's begin.

辯論現在開始

We're calling this opening segment Achieving Prosperity

第一節的主題是如何刺激經濟繁榮

and central to that is jobs.

就業是箇中關鍵

There are two economic realities in America today.

目前美國有兩個經濟現象：

There's been a record six straight years of job growth,

連續六年就業上升

and new census numbers show

以及根據全國普查

incomes have increased at a record rate

國民收入在長期停滯之後

after years of stagnation.

出現破紀錄增長

However, income inequality remains significant

然而，國民收入不均依然嚴重

and nearly half of Americans are living paycheque to paycheque.

接近一半美國人「手停口停」

Beginning with you, Secretary Clinton,

先問你，國務卿

why are you a better choice than your opponent

為何你比對手優勝

to create the kinds of jobs

能創造出更多職位

that will put more money into the pockets of Americans workers?

從而可以增加美國工人的收入？

Well, thank you, Lester,

謝謝萊斯特

and thanks to Hofstra for hosting us.

謝謝霍夫斯特拉大學接待我們

The central question in this election

這場選舉的核心議題

is really what kind of country we want to be

是我們想成為一個怎樣的國家

and what kind of future we'll build together.

和一起建立怎樣的將來

Today is my granddaughter's second birthday,

今天是我孫女兒兩歲生辰

so I think about this a lot.

因此我深思過這個議題

First, we have to build an economy that works for everyone,

我們首要建立一個人人受惠的經濟

not just those at the top.

不只向社會精英傾斜

That means we need new jobs, good jobs,

因此我們需要新職位，好職位

with rising incomes.

收入不斷上升

I want us to invest in you.

我希望投資在你們身上

I want us to invest in your future.

投資在你們的將來之上

That means jobs in infrastructure,

即創造基本建設的職位

in advanced manufacturing,

先進製造的職位

innovation and technology,

創新科技的職位

clean renewable energy

清潔可再生能源

and small business,

以及小型企業

because most of the new jobs will come from small business.

因為大部分新職位來自小型企業

We also have to make the economy fairer.

我們亦要令經濟變得公平

That starts with raising the national minimum wage

第一步是調高全國最低工資

and also guarantee finally equal pay for women's work.

並確保男女同工同酬

I also want to see more companies do profit sharing.

我亦希望見到更多公司分享利潤

If you help create the profit, you should be able to share in them,

如果你創造利潤，就要分享利潤

not just the executives at the top.

而不單只公司高層受惠

And I want us to do more to us to support people

我亦願意幫助那些同時要

who are struggling to balance family and work.

兼顧家庭和工作的人

I've heard from so many of you

我聽到許多人提到

about the difficult choices you face

你們所面對的艱難抉擇

and the stresses that you're under.

以及所承受的沉重壓力

So let's have paid family leave,

因此我們要設立有薪家庭假期

earned sick days.

有薪病假

Let's be sure we have affordable child care

合理的子女撫養開支

and debt-free college.

和免債大學教育

How are we going to do it?

如何達成？

We're gonna do it by having the wealthy pay their fair share

就是有錢人盡其應盡的稅務責任

and close the corporate loopholes.

和堵塞公司漏洞

Finally, we, tonight, are on the stage together, Donald Trump and I.

今晚，我和特朗普終於同台較量

Donald, it's good to be with you.

特朗普很高興可以和你同台

We're going to have a debate

我們今晚的辯論

where we are talking about the important issues facing our country.

牽涉美國正面對的重要議題

You have to judge us.

你們要決定

Who can shoulder the immense awesome responsibilities of the presidency?

誰能肩付起總統的大任

Who can put into action the plans

誰能將政綱付諸實行

that will make your life better?

改善你們的生活

I hope that I will be able to earn your vote

希望我能夠在 11 月 8 日

on November 8.

爭取到你們的選票

Secretary Clinton, thank you.

國務卿，謝謝

Mr. Trump, the same question to you,

特朗普先生，我向你問同一個問題

it's about putting more money in the pockets of American workers.

怎樣將更多錢放進美國工人的口袋

You have up to two minutes.

你有兩分鐘時間

Thank you, Lester.

謝謝，萊斯特

Our jobs are fleeing the country.

我們的職位紛紛離開美國

They're going to Mexico,

它們去了墨西哥

they're going to many other countries,

去了其他許多國家

you look at what China's doing to our country

眼見中國製造我們的產品

in terms of making our product.

其影響顯而易見

They're devaluing their currency

中國令人民幣貶值

and there's nobody in our government to fight them.

我們的政府沒有人與他們對抗

And we have a very good fight and we have a winning fight

其實我們佔上風，而且一定會勝利

because they're using our country as a piggy bank

因為中國利用我們這個錢箱

to rebuild China.

來重建國家

And many other countries are doing the same thing.

其他許多國家也都這樣做

So we're losing our good jobs, so many of them.

以至我們失去了太多好職位

When you look at what's happening in Mexico,

看看墨西哥

a friend of mine who builds plants

我一名朋友在那兒設廠

said it's the Eighth Wonder of the World

形容它是世界第八大奇蹟

they're building some of the biggest plant anywhere in the world,

他們興建全球最大的工廠

some of the most sophisticated, some of the best plants,

科技最先進、最優質的工廠

with the United States, as you said, "Not so much."

相反，美國卻乏善可陳

So Ford is leaving.

福特汽車撤走了

You see that there's more oar division leaving,

有更多汽車部門撤走了

thousands of jobs, leaving Michigan, leaving Ohio,

數千計的職位撤出密歇根、俄亥俄

they're all leaving.

它們全都撤走

And we can't allow it to happen anymore.

我們不可以再讓這種事發生

As far as child cares concerned and so many other things,

至於子女撫養開支和許多議題

I think Hillary and I agree on that.

我和希拉里立場一致

We probably disagree a little bit as to numbers and amounts

只是在數字、數量和對策上

and what we're going to do but perhaps we'll be talking about that later.

有分歧，我們稍後可以討論

But we have to stop our jobs from being stolen from us,

但我們一定要阻止職位被奪去

we have to stop our companies from leaving the United States.

我們一定要停止公司離開美國

And with it firing all of their people.

引致工人被解僱

All you have to do is take a look at Carrier air conditioning

不妨看看印第安納波利斯

in Indianapolis.

開利冷氣

They left fired 14 hundred people,

他們解僱了 1400 人

they're going to Mexico.

公司遷往墨西哥

So many hundreds, and hundreds of companies are doing this.

成千上萬間公司也都這樣做

We cannot let it happen.

我們不可以讓這種事發生

Under my plan,

在我的政綱中

I'll be reducing taxes tremendously, from 35 percent to 15 percent for a companies,

不論公司大小，都會大幅減稅

small and big businesses.

從 35% 減至 15%

That's going to be a job creator

由此創造出的職位

like we haven't seen since Ronald Reagan.

是列根時代以來從未見過

It's going to be a beautiful thing to watch.

這將是一件美事

Companies will come, they will build, they will expand,

公司會來投資，會建設，會擴展

new companies will start.

新公司會成立

And I look very, very much forward to doing it.

我對這計劃充滿期待

We have to renegotiate our trade deals

我們要重新商討貿易協議

and we have to stop these countries from stealing our companies

阻止其他國家奪走我們的公司

and our jobs.

和職位

Secretary Clinton, would you like to respond?

國務卿，你要不要回應？

Well, I think trade is an important issue.

貿易是個重要議題

Of course, we are five percent of the world's population,

當然，我們只佔全球 5% 人口

we have to trade with the other 95 percent.

我們要和其他 95% 人口做貿易

And we need to have smart, fair trade deals.

我們需要精明、公平的貿易協議

We also though, need to have a tax system

但我們亦需要稅制來配合

that rewards work,

從勞動得到收穫

not just financial transactions.

不單從金融交易得到收穫

And the kind of plan that Donald has put forth

特朗普提出的計劃

would be trickle-down economics all over again.

再度是從上而下的經濟涓滴效應

In fact, it would be the most extreme version,

它是最極端的版本

the biggest tax cuts for the top percent of the people

美國有史以來社會上層

in this country than we've ever had.

最大幅減稅

I call it trumped-up trickle down,

我稱之為捏造涓滴效應

because that's exactly what it would be.

因為是捏造出來的

That is not how we grow the economy.

那不是我們令經濟增長的方法

We just have a different view

甚麼最能刺激經濟增長

about what's best for growing the economy,

怎樣投資才能增加職位和收入

how we make investments that will actually produce jobs and rising incomes.

我們在這兩個議題上看法不同

I think we come at it from somewhat different perspectives. I understand that.

我們觀點角度不同，我理解的

You know, Donald was very fortunate in his life and that's all to his benefit.

特朗普出生優越，那是他的福氣

He started his business with $14 million, borrowed from his father,

向父親借了 1400 萬美元創業

and he really believes that the more you help wealthy people, the better off we'll be

他真心相信幫富人越多，大家越好

and that everything will work out from there.

問題就會逐步解決

I don't buy that. I have a different experience.

我不同意，我的經驗不一樣

My father was a small businessman. He worked really hard.

家父是小商人，要辛辛苦苦工作

He printed drapery fabrics on long table where he pulled out those fabrics

給窗簾布印花，在長桌上攤開布料

and went down with a silk screen and dumped the paint in

放下絲網，倒顏料下去

and took the squeegee and kept going.

拿起網印刮刀，不停地刮

And so what I believe is the more we can do for the middle class,

所以我相信輔助中產階層越多

the more we can invest in you,

往你身上的投資也越多

your education, your skills, your future,

你的教育、你的技能、你的未來

the better we will be off and the better we'll grow.

那大家就越好，我們的發展也越好

That's the kind of economy I want us to see again.

那是我希望再見得到的經濟

Let me follow up with Mr. Trump, if I can.

讓我接著問特朗普先生

You've talked about creating 25 million jobs

你提及創造 2500 萬個職位

and you've promised to bring back millions of jobs for Americans.

承諾讓幾百萬職位回流給美國人

How are we going to bring back the industries that have left this country

那些為廉價勞工而移師外國的企業

for cheaper labor overseas?

你有甚麼方法令其回流？

How specifically are you going to tell American manufacturers

你有甚麼具體方法…

that you have to come back?

說服美國製造商回來美國？

Well, for one thing, and before we start on that,

首先，回答之前說一說

my father gave me a very small loan in 1975

1975年，家父借我一筆小本錢創業

and I built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars

我將公司發展成市值幾十億企業

with some of the greatest assets in the world

持有不少傲視全球的優質資產

and I say that only because that's the kind of thinking our country needs.

我這是說明那才是美國需要的思維

Our country is in deep trouble.

我們的國家身陷困境

We don't know what we're doing when it comes to devaluations

面對貨幣貶值政策，毫無對策

and all of these countries all over the world, especially China,

世界各地都在貶值貨幣，尤其中國國

they are the best, the best ever at it.

他們最精於此道

What they are doing to us is a very, very sad thing.

他們對我們做的事非常悲哀

So we have to do that. We have to renegotiate our trade deals.

我們要還擊，要重新談判貿易協議

And Lester, they are taking our jobs,

他們搶走我們的工作

they are giving incentives,

他們提供優惠

doing things that frankly we don't do.

坦白說，做我們不做的事

Let me give you an example of Mexico.

以墨西哥為例

They have a VAT tax. We're in a different system.

他們設增值稅，我們的制度不同

When we sell into Mexico, there's a tax.

美國貨品輸入墨西哥要徵稅

When they sell in, automatic, 16% approximately.

美國貨入境，自動徵稅約 16%

When they sell into us, there's no tax.

他們賣貨來美國卻不用徵稅

It's a defective agreement. It's been defective for a long time, many years.

那樣的協議有缺陷，缺陷存在多年

But the politicians haven't done anything about it.

可政客一直置之不理

Now, in all fairness to Secretary Clinton,

公道點說，國務卿你…

yes, is that okay?

可以那樣稱呼嗎？

Good. I want you to be very happy. It's very important to me.

好，我希望你滿意，我很在乎的

But in all fairness to Secretary Clinton,

公道點說

when she started talking about this, it was really very recently.

國務卿也是近期才開始談這問題

She's been doing this for 30 years.

她從政 30 年

Why hasn't she made the agreements better?

怎麼之前不爭取更好的協議？

The NAFTA agreement is defective,

北美自由貿易協定諸多缺陷

just because of the tax and many other reasons. But just because of the tax...

因為稅務和其他理由，但單稅務…

Let me interrupt a moment.

讓我打岔

Secretary Clinton and others politicians should have been doing this for years,

國務卿和其他政客該多年前就補救

not right now because of the fact that we've created a movement.

而不是待我們發起運動了才行動

They should have been doing this for years.