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  • (tones)

  • (rewinding tape)

  • (tape button pressed)

  • (slow music)

  • - When did you become Cher, Cher?

  • Are you legally Cher, one word?

  • - Oh, yeah. I've been Cher for a long time.

  • - You sign your checks Cher and stuff like that?

  • - Yeah, all my papers, my passport, my driver's license.

  • I never really felt my maiden name.

  • I never really felt any last name ever in my life.

  • I was always just Cher.

  • So I just went and petitioned the court.

  • What you have to prove is

  • that you are absolutely recognizable

  • to everyone by that one name.

  • (upbeat music)

  • - I want to ask you a little bit about diva concert here.

  • Are you comfortable with the phrase diva

  • as applied to you?

  • You think it's right?

  • - I don't think it's anything.

  • I think it's something that is a commercial word

  • that people ...

  • - The old meaning has sort of connotations

  • of temperamental and difficult and egotistical.

  • - Well one out of three.

  • (Benjamin chuckles)

  • - Which one is wrong?

  • - The first two.

  • - So egotistical?

  • - Absolutely because I spend so much time

  • having to think about myself and so I'm really self-centered

  • which doesn't make me completely oblivious to things

  • that are happening around me.

  • It just makes me more conscious of myself

  • than is healthy and that I would like to be.

  • But that's just the way it is.

  • I don't read music.

  • I just hear it,

  • but I'm better with lyrics

  • and I have kind of a photographic memory because of it.

  • I can read something and pretty much get the feeling

  • of it the first time.

  • It just takes me a little bit longer.

  • I'm pretty intelligent but I'm really dyslexic

  • and so school was almost an impossibility for me.

  • - You have such a icon status in the public mind.

  • People don't think of Cher as a mom, generally.

  • What kind of mom are you, were you?

  • - A working mom at best is not very good.

  • I mean I love my kids,

  • but I could've been a lot better mom.

  • I think I was kind of strict and dragged them with me

  • and had great times and bad times.

  • And I'm a cookie-decorating mom.

  • I don't bake them.

  • I decorate them, you know.

  • (Benjamin chuckles)

  • - Okay.

  • It's not necessary to smash your children's personalities.

  • They're respectful.

  • They know what's right and wrong.

  • How they live after that is their choice,

  • and I don't have a lot of vested interest

  • in making them kowtow to some strange whims that I have.

  • - Youre very popular apparently in gay circles,

  • - Yeah.

  • - And, I guess, I don't know if there's a camp element

  • to it or not.

  • - I don't believe it is.

  • I think that my gay following is really respectful

  • and if it verges into being camp,

  • camp is a very specifically gay thing.

  • That doesn't bother me at all, because I know

  • that my gay followers really care about me, really love me,

  • have loved me through thick and thin,

  • and a lot of times have loved me more through thin

  • because that's the way gay men are.

  • They understand not being part of the whole.

  • - It's a strange thing with your career.

  • It sort of goes all over the place.

  • One minute you're incredibly cool,

  • then you're not so cool

  • and then you're not so cool

  • that you're cool again.

  • Do you just ride this wave?

  • - I don't know how to do it.

  • I just ride it.

  • - Does it get to you?

  • - Yeah.

  • It's fun when it's happening you know.

  • It's not that I don't take it seriously,

  • it's just that I know what it is.

  • It doesn't mean because it's happening now

  • that it's going to happen forever.

  • But it doesn't mean that it's not either,

  • so I don't predict this kind of [Bleep] you know.

  • I could walk out of here tomorrow

  • and get hit by a truck.

  • It's just been my life.

  • It's always been my life.

  • I don't know that this life makes me happy

  • but it's the life that I love.

  • - Can you imagine what the alternate universe

  • would have been had you not gone this way,

  • if you had not met Sonny in that coffee shop

  • and not become famous?

  • - Yeah I know but you know what we were walking towards

  • that coffee shop since the day we were both born.

  • - Destiny?

  • - Yeah.

  • - Do you believe in destiny?

  • - Yeah, I believe in everything.

  • (Benjamin chuckles)

  • - [Benjamin] Would you have been happy

  • if you had not been famous?

  • - No.

  • (slow music)

  • - I've Got You Babe is obviously,

  • that must be packed with all sorts

  • of mixed emotions for you, huh?

  • - Not really anything mixed.

  • No, it was just like the beginning,

  • and it was, we were living that song.

  • Sonny wrote that song for me.

  • It was about our life.

  • Since Sonny's death it's a lot more bittersweet, you know,

  • but the truth is, even though Sonny's dead,

  • I don't think of him as dead.

  • I feel somehow closer to him now

  • than I've felt in a really long time.

  • We had the just strangest relationship.

  • I mean, he had me in court trying to prove

  • I was an unfit mother,

  • and on the day he lost the case

  • 'cause it was really ridiculous,

  • we walked out and he grabbed me and kissed me on the lips,

  • and I was really angry with him, you know?

  • And then we ended up being hysterical laughing.

  • We were so much like kids.

  • You know, we'd spent hundreds of thousands of dollars,

  • but it was like a joke.

  • It was always like a game with us.

  • It was always like a game.

  • I never could explain it to myself.

  • I just accepted however it went.

  • (tape rewinding)

  • Subtitles by the Amara.org community

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