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  • Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Thu-Huong Ha

    1975年,我在佛羅倫斯見到了 卡洛佩德瑞提教授

  • In 1975, I met in Florence a professor, Carlo Pedretti,

    他曾經是我的藝術史教授,而今

  • my former professor of art history, and today

    他是以專研達文西聞名於世的學者

  • a world-renowned scholar of Leonardo da Vinci.

    他問我能不能找到某種科技

  • Well, he asked me if I could find some technological way

    來解開已存在五世紀之久的謎團─

  • to unfold a five-centuries-old mystery related to

    達文西失落的巨作「安吉里戰役」

  • a lost masterpiece by Leonardo da Vinci,

    這幅畫作應該是在

  • the "Battle of Anghiari," which is supposed to be located

    佛羅倫斯舊宮的五百人大廳裡

  • in the Hall of the 500 in Palazzo Vecchio, in Florence.

    在七零年代中期,像我這樣的生物工程學家

  • Well, in the mid-'70s, there were not great opportunities

    沒有什麼好的工作機會,特別是在義大利

  • for a bioengineer like me, especially in Italy, and so

    所以我決定和來自美國

  • I decided, with some researchers from the United States

    及佛羅倫斯大學的研究人員一起著手探索

  • and the University of Florence, to start probing the murals

    瓦薩里在五百人大廳的長牆上繪製的壁畫

  • decorated by Vasari on the long walls of the Hall of the 500

    以尋找達文西失落的畫作

  • searching for the lost Leonardo.

    不幸的是,當時我們並不知道

  • Unfortunately, at that time we did not know that

    這裡不是我們該留意的地方

  • that was not exactly where we should be looking,

    正因為我們得挖更深,

  • because we had to go much deeper in, and so the research

    這個研究最終被擱置下來,直到2000年

  • came to a halt, and it was only taken up in 2000

    在金氏家族的大力支持之下,才得以重啟

  • thanks to the interest and the enthusiasm of the Guinness family.

    這次,我們把焦點擺在試著重建

  • Well, this time, we focused on trying to reconstruct

    那建於1494年的五百人大廳

  • the way the Hall of the 500 was before the remodeling,

    也就是大廳 (Sala Grande) 在翻修之前的樣貌

  • and the so-called Sala Grande, which was built in 1494,

    並找出它原本的門窗位置

  • and to find out the original doors, windows,

    為此,我們首先做出一個 3D 模型

  • and in order to do that, we first created a 3D model,

    然後藉著熱成像的技術,我們發現了一些

  • and then, with thermography, we went on to discover

    隱藏的窗戶,那都是大廳原本的窗戶

  • hidden windows. These are the original windows of the hall

    也知道了天花板的高度

  • of the Sala Grande. We also found out about the height

    所以能夠成功地重建

  • of the ceiling, and we managed to reconstruct, therefore,

    原始禮堂的整個佈局

  • all the layout of this original hall

    也就是在瓦薩里來到此地之前的樣貌

  • the way it was before there came Vasari,

    我們也重建出整個結構

  • and restructured the whole thing,

    包括一個很重要的樓梯

  • including a staircase that was very important

    那是為了將「安吉里戰役」準確地放置

  • in order to precisely place "The Battle of Anghiari"

    而準備的工具之一

  • on a specific area of one of the two walls.

    我們也發現在1560到1574年間

  • Well, we also learned that Vasari, who was commissioned

    受梅迪奇家族的大公科西莫一世委託

  • to remodel the Hall of the 500 between 1560 and 1574

    翻修五百人大廳的瓦薩里

  • by the Grand Duke Cosimo I of the Medici family,

    為保存大師作品,至少有兩次在

  • we have at least two instances when he saved masterpieces

    作品前特地築起一道磚牆

  • specifically by placing a brick wall in front of it

    並在牆與作品間留下小小的氣隙

  • and leaving a small air gap.

    這邊的一個例子是 馬薩其奧的「佛羅倫斯新聖母堂」

  • One that we [see] here, Masaccio, the church of Santa Maria Novella in Florence,

    所以我們就想,或許瓦薩里也對

  • so we just said, well maybe, Visari has done something

    達文西的傑作做了類似的事

  • like that in the case of this great work of art by Leonardo,

    畢竟他相當崇拜達文西

  • since he was a great admirer of Leonardo da Vinci.

    所以我們做了一些非常精細的無線電天線

  • And so we built some very sophisticated radio antennas

    用來探測大廳的兩面牆來找尋這樣的氣隙

  • just for probing both walls and searching for an air gap.

    而我們真的在東牆右邊的牆板找到了

  • And we did find many on the right panel of the east wall,

    一個這樣的氣隙

  • an air gap, and that's where

    我們相信「安吉里戰役」

  • we believe "The Battle of Anghiari,"

    或者至少是據知已經繪成的

  • or at least the part that we know has been painted,

    稱為「奪旗之戰」的一部分應該就在那裡

  • which is called "The Fight for the Standard," should be located.

    不過很不幸地

  • Well, from there, unfortunately,

    這個計畫在2004年中止了

  • in 2004, the project

    出於很多政治上的原因

  • came to a halt. Many political reasons.

    所以我決定回到我的母校

  • So I decided to go back to my alma mater,

    加州大學聖地牙哥分校

  • and, at the University of California, San Diego,

    並提議創設一個

  • and I proposed to open up a research center

    以保存文化遺產為目的的工程科學研究中心

  • for engineering sciences for cultural heritage.

    然後在2007年,我們創了 CISA3

  • And in 2007, we created CISA3 as a research center

    一個以保存文化遺產,尤其是藝術、建築

  • for cultural heritage, specifically art, architecture

    以及考古發現而設的研究中心,所以學生開始湧入

  • and archaeology. So students started to flow in,

    也開始發展這方面的科技

  • and we started to build technologies, because that's

    因為那正是我們推展這個計畫

  • basically what we also needed in order to move forward

    以及重回實地工作所需要的技術

  • and go and do fieldwork.

    我們在2011年時回到五百人大廳

  • We came back in the Hall of the 500 in 2011,

    這次我們有一大群學生

  • and this time, with a great group of students,

    還有我的同事凡科庫斯特教授

  • and my colleague, Professor Falko Kuester,

    現在他是CISA3的負責人

  • who is now the director at CISA3, and we

    一起回到這裡,是因為我們已經知道

  • came back just since we knew already where to look for

    該到哪裡尋找可能留下的畫作遺跡

  • to find out if there was still something left.

    但這麼說吧,我們的研究方式受到限制

  • Well, we were confined though, limited, I should rather say,

    出於一些不值得說明的原因

  • for several reasons that it's not worth explaining,

    在眾多選項中,我們只能使用內視鏡

  • to endoscopy only, of the many other options we had,

    藉著附接在內視鏡上的四毫米攝像頭

  • and with a 4mm camera attached to it,

    我們成功紀錄並採到

  • we were successful in documenting and taking

    一些碎片,後來證實這些

  • some fragments of what it turns out to be

    有著紅黑夾雜的色彩

  • a reddish color, black color, and there is some

    我們後來針對一些米色碎片

  • beige fragments that later on

    作了更精密的檢驗

  • we ran a much more sophisticated exams,

    包括X光螢光與繞射分析,也得到非常正面的結果

  • XRF, X-ray diffraction, and the results are very positive

    看起來這似乎表示

  • so far. It seems to indicate that indeed

    我們確實找到一些顏料,也因為我們知道

  • we have found some pigments, and since we know for sure

    在瓦薩里大約六十年後來到這裡之前

  • that no other artist has painted on that wall

    其他的藝術家不曾在那面牆上作畫

  • before Vasari came in about 60 years later, well,

    所以那些顏料很可能與壁畫有關

  • those pigments are therefore firmly related to mural painting

    最有可能出於達文西

  • and most likely to Leonardo.

    我們在找尋的是人類有史以來

  • Well, we are searching for the highest and highly praised

    所創作出最棒、最受推崇的藝術作品

  • work of art ever achieved by mankind.

    事實上,這是達文西一生所接過

  • As a matter of fact, this is by far the most important

    最重要的委託

  • commission that Leonardo has ever had,

    因為這幅傑作,他被喻為是

  • and for doing this great masterpiece, he was named

    當時最有影響力的藝術家

  • the number one artist influence at the time.

    在過去的 37 年中,我也有幸參與了一些

  • I had also had the privilege since the last 37 years

    跟我背後這幾項傑作有關的計畫

  • to work on several masterpieces as you can see behind me,

    但我到底在做些什麼呢?比方說

  • but basically to do what? Well, to assess, for example,

    評估它們保存的狀態,你們看這幅「椅中聖母」

  • the state of conservation. See here the face of the

    當我們把紫外線打在聖母的臉上時

  • Madonna of the Chair that when just shining a UV light on it

    你突然會看到另一位女士

  • you suddenly see another, different lady,

    應該說一位更年長的女士

  • aged lady, I should rather say.

    這上面還殘留很多亮光漆、潤飾及過度清理的痕跡

  • There is a lot of varnish still sitting there, several retouches,

    在紫外線下變得很明顯

  • and some over cleaning. It becomes very visible.

    科技更幫助我們寫下歷史的新頁

  • But also, technology has helped to write new pages

    或至少更新我們所知的歷史

  • of our history, or at least to update pages of our histories.

    比方說,這幅「抱著獨角獸的女人」

  • For example, the "Lady with the Unicorn,"

    另一幅拉斐爾的畫作,你看到獨角獸

  • another painting by Rafael, well, you see the unicorn.

    對於這隻獨角獸已經有很多不同的闡述

  • A lot has been said and written about the unicorn, but

    但如果你給牠照張 X 光片,牠就變成一隻小狗了

  • if you take an X-ray of the unicorn, it becomes a puppy dog.

    (眾笑)這還不打緊,不幸的是

  • And — (Laughter) — no problem, but, unfortunately,

    在更進一步以科技檢驗這幅畫作之後

  • continuing with the scientific examination of this painting

    我們發現拉斐爾沒畫獨角獸,

  • came out that Rafael did not paint the unicorn,

    也沒畫小狗,他根本沒把這幅畫畫完

  • did not paint the puppy dog, actually left the painting

    所以一切關於這隻奇特的獨角獸的象徵意義的著作─

  • unfinished, so all this writing about the exotic symbol

    (眾笑)─ 很不幸的

  • of the unicorn — (Laughter) — unfortunately,

    都不大可靠

  • is not very reliable. (Laughter)

    再來就是鑑定作品的真偽,你想嘛

  • Well, also, authenticity. Just think for a moment

    如果科技真的能夠對真跡鑑定有所貢獻

  • if science really could move in the field of authenticity

    那會是一場文化的革命

  • of works of art. There would be a cultural revolution

    我認為至少可以說是藝術市場的革命

  • to say the least, but also, I would say, a market revolution,

    舉例來說

  • let me add. Take this example:

    奧托瑪蘇斯的「靜物」,很棒的作品

  • Otto Marseus, nice painting, which is "Still Life"

    現在保存在碧提宮的美術館裡

  • at the Pitti Gallery, and just have an infrared camera peering through,

    對藝術史家來說,很幸運地

  • and luckily for art historians, it just was confirmed

    紅外線掃描剛剛證實了畫上有奧托瑪蘇斯的簽名,甚至

  • that there is a signature of Otto Marseus. It even says

    還說了這幅畫是何時何地畫成

  • when it was made and also the location.

    這結果還不錯,但有時候就沒那麼幸運了

  • So that was a good result. Sometimes, it's not that good,

    所以我要再次強調,鑑定和科學可以相輔相成

  • and so, again, authenticity and science could go together

    並改變現今的鑑定方式,不單只是單純的主觀認定

  • and change the way, not attributions being made,

    而是找出一個可以更為客觀

  • but at least lay the ground for a more objective,

    或者說,較不那麼主觀的認定基礎

  • or, I should rather say, less subjective attribution,

    至少和現在比起來

  • as it is done today.

    但我敢說真正激起

  • But I would say the discovery that really caught

    我的想像力和讚嘆的,是那不可思議、栩栩如生的畫作

  • my imagination, my admiration, is the incredibly vivid

    就隱藏在那棕色外層

  • drawing under this layer, brown layer,

    也就是「賢士來朝」之下

  • of "The Adoration of the Magi." Here you see

    在這邊你可以看到一台手製的紅外線立體掃描儀

  • a handmade setting XYZ scanner with an infrared camera put on it,

    正對這棕色外層的

  • and just peering through this brown layer

    大師作品進行掃描

  • of this masterpiece to reveal

    來找出這外層之下可能有的東西

  • what could have been underneath.

    而底下正是義大利所擁有的

  • Well, this happens to be the most important painting

    最重要的一幅達文西畫作

  • we have in Italy by Leonardo da Vinci, and

    看看這些五個世紀以來沒有人見過的臉孔

  • look at the wonderful images of faces that nobody has seen

    看看這些畫像,

  • for five centuries. Look at these portraits.

    令人讚嘆不已,彷彿看到達文西作畫的身影

  • They're magnificent. You see Leonardo at work.

    從他的創作中你可以感受到真切的情感

  • You see the geniality of his creation, right directly

    從這幅畫的底層透出來

  • on the ground layer of the panel, and see

    看看這了不起的發現,這麼說吧

  • this cool thing, finding, I should rather say,

    這是一隻大象(眾笑)因為這隻大象

  • an elephant. (Laughter) Because of this elephant,

    有七十多個幾世紀未曾見世的新圖像出現

  • over 70 new images came out, never seen for centuries.

    那是一場頓悟,我們才明白

  • This was an epiphany. We came to understand

    並接著證明今日所看到的棕色外層

  • and to prove that the brown coating that we see today

    並非出自達文西之手,而讓底下其他畫像

  • was not done by Leonardo da Vinci, which left us

    在五世紀以來無法得見

  • only the other drawing that for five centuries

    這全是靠著科技的幫助

  • we were not able to see, so thanks only to technology.

    再來是平板電腦,我們覺得

  • Well, the tablet. Well, we thought, well, if we all have

    如果我們如此榮幸能看到這些東西

  • this pleasure, this privilege to see all this,

    以及這所有發現,何不和所有人分享呢?

  • to find all these discoveries, what about for everybody else?

    所以我們想到在平板電腦上作個擴增實境應用程式

  • So we thought of an augmented reality application

    讓我作個示範

  • using a tablet. Let me show you just simulating

    我們能夠用它來做些什麼

  • what we could be doing, any of us could be doing,

    這是任何人在博物館裡都可以做到的事

  • in a museum environment.

    所以我們帶著平板電腦到博物館去

  • So let's say that we go to a museum with a tablet, okay?

    然後我們把平板電腦的相機

  • And we just aim the camera of the tablet

    對準我們想看的畫,就像這樣

  • to the painting that we are interested to see, like this.

    好了嗎?然後按下快門,等一下

  • Okay? And I will just click on it, we pause,

    現在讓我轉向你們,所以當這個影像─

  • and now let me turn to you so the moment the image,

    或者應該說是相機,鎖定了這幅畫以後

  • or, I should say, the camera, has locked in the painting,

    你們剛剛在那邊看到的畫中影像

  • then the images you just saw up there in the drawing

    就載入這裡了,然後你們看

  • are being loaded. And so, see.

    我們就能像剛才說的把畫放大,還可以上下捲動

  • We can, as we said, we can zoom in. Then we can scroll.

    好嗎?讓我們去把這隻大象找出來吧

  • Okay? Let's go and find the elephant.

    我們只要用一根手指頭,抹一抹

  • So all we need is one finger. Just wipe off

    就能看到這隻大象了(掌聲)

  • and we see the elephant. (Applause)

    (掌聲)

  • (Applause)

    好嗎?然後如果想要的話

  • Okay? And then if we want,

    可以繼續捲動這幅畫來找出─

  • we can continue the scroll to find out, for example,

    比方說,在這個樓梯上(用手指抹一抹)

  • on the staircase, the whole iconography is going

    這整個圖像就都改變了

  • to be changed. There are a lot of laymen reconstructing

    你現在看到的是很多人在廢墟上重建新的廟堂

  • from the ruins of an old temple a new temple,

    還有很多其他的圖像也出現了,看到了嗎?

  • and there are a lot of figures showing up. See?

    這不只是一項引人好奇的事物

  • This is not just a curiosity, because it changes

    因為它不只改變了你所看到的圖像

  • not just the iconography as you see it, but the iconology,

    還有圖像學本身以及畫作的意義

  • the meaning of the painting,

    我們相信這是一個又棒又簡單的方法

  • and we believe this is a cool way, easy way,

    讓每個人都能和我們一樣

  • that everybody could have access to, to become more

    走入數不清的博物館展間時

  • the protagonist of your own discovery, and not just

    能夠更積極主動地去挖掘出自己的發現

  • be so passive about it, as we are when we walk through

    而不是只能被動接受

  • endless rooms of museums.

    (掌聲)

  • (Applause)

    另一個概念是數位診斷圖表

  • Another concept is the digital clinical chart, which sounds

    如果是討論病人,就很容易理解

  • very obvious if we were to talk about real patients,

    但不幸的是,當談到藝術作品時

  • but when we talk about works of art, unfortunately,

    這個概念不曾被探索過

  • it's never been tapped as an idea.

    我們還是相信,這只是一個開始

  • Well, we believe, again, that this should be the beginning,

    是著手進行真正的保存的第一步

  • the very first step, to do real conservation,

    也讓我們能夠實際地去探索、去了解

  • and allowing us to really explore and to understand

    所有跟我們的保存工作有關的事

  • everything related to the state of our conservation,

    用的技術和材料,以及在什麼情況之下

  • the technique, materials, and also if, when, and why

    我們應該修復畫作

  • we should restore, or, rather, to intervene on

    或者介入畫作的周邊環境

  • the environment surrounding the painting.

    我們的願景是能

  • Well, our vision is to rediscover

    重新找回文藝復興的精神、創造全新領域

  • the spirit of the Renaissance, create a new discipline

    讓保存文化遺產的技術

  • where engineering for cultural heritage is actually

    成為藝術與科學融合的象徵

  • a symbol of blending art and science together.

    這確實需要擁有全新專長的工程師

  • We definitely need a new breed of engineers

    能夠實地進行這種工作

  • that will go out and do this kind of work and

    來幫助我們重現這些

  • rediscover for us these values, these cultural values

    在今日尤為需要的文化價值

  • that we badly need, especially today.

    如果要以簡單一句話作結

  • And if you want to summarize in one just single word,

    這就是我們所作的嘗試

  • well, this is what we're trying to do.

    試著藉由延續過去

  • We're trying to give a future to our past

    來展望未來

  • in order to have a future.

    只要我們能夠在生活中常抱好奇心與熱情

  • As long as we live a life of curiosity and passion,

    達文西的精神就常在我們心中,謝謝大家(掌聲)

  • there is a bit of Leonardo in all of us. Thank you. (Applause)

    (掌聲)

  • (Applause)

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Thu-Huong Ha

1975年,我在佛羅倫斯見到了 卡洛佩德瑞提教授

字幕與單字

影片操作 你可以在這邊進行「影片」的調整,以及「字幕」的顯示

B1 中級 中文 TED 畫作 大廳 保存 獨角獸 作品

TED】Maurizio Seracini:繪畫的祕密生活(毛裡奇奧-塞拉西尼:繪畫的祕密生活)。 (【TED】Maurizio Seracini: The secret lives of paintings (Maurizio Seracini: The secret lives of paintings))

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    t 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
影片單字