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  • Guatemala is recovering from a 36-year armed conflict.

    瓜地馬拉正在 從36年前的武力衝突中恢復過來

  • A conflict that was fought during the Cold War.

    這個衝突是在冷戰期間發生的

  • It was really just a small leftist insurgency

    那其實只是一個很小的左翼暴動

  • and a devastating response by the state.

    和一個政府方面 具有極端破壞性的反應

  • What we have as a result is 200,000 civilian victims,

    結果是20萬的人民受害

  • 160,000 of those killed in the communities:

    其中16萬人在他們的社區內被殺

  • small children, men, women, the elderly even.

    小孩,男人,女人,甚者老人

  • And then we have about 40,000 others, the missing,

    此外,還有4萬人失踪

  • the ones we're still looking for today.

    我們至今仍在尋找這些人

  • We call them the Desaparecidos.

    我們稱他們為“消失者”

  • Now, 83 percent of the victims are Mayan victims,

    有百分之八十三的受害者是馬雅人

  • victims that are the descendants

    這些馬雅受害者是

  • of the original inhabitants of Central America.

    中美洲原始住民的後代

  • And only about 17 percent are of European descent.

    只有差不多百分之十七 是歐洲人的後代

  • But the most important thing here is that

    但是最重要的是

  • the very people who are supposed to defend us, the police, the military,

    那些應該是要保護我們的人, 警察和軍隊

  • are the ones that committed most of the crimes.

    正是殺害這些人民的罪魁禍首

  • Now the families, they want information.

    現在受害者的家人們想要知道

  • They want to know what happened.

    到底發生了什麼事?

  • They want the bodies of their loved ones.

    他們要取回他們所愛的家人的屍體

  • But most of all, what they want is they want you,

    但最重要的是,他們想要你們

  • they want everyone to know that their loved ones did nothing wrong.

    他們要每個人都知道 他們所愛的家人並沒有做錯任何事

  • Now, my case was that my father received death threats in 1980.

    我家的情況是 我父親在1980年受到死亡威脅

  • And we left.

    我們就離開瓜地馬拉來到這裡

  • We left Guatemala and we came here.

    所以我是在紐約長大的

  • So I grew up in New York,

    實際上我是在布魯克林區長大的 我上過新優翠特高中

  • I grew up in Brooklyn as a matter of fact, and I went to New Utrecht High School

    然後畢業於布魯克林學院

  • and I graduated from Brooklyn College.

    唯一的一件事是

  • The only thing was that

    我真的不知道在瓜地馬拉 究竟發生了什麼事

  • I really didn't know what was happening in Guatemala.

    我也不想知道;因為太痛苦了

  • I didn't care for it; it was too painful.

    一直到1995年 我才決定要為它做點什麼

  • But it wasn't till 1995 that I decided to do something about it.

    所以我回去了

  • So I went back.

    我回到瓜地馬拉 去尋找那些被殺害者的屍體

  • I went back to Guatemala, to look for the bodies,

    去了解事件的真相 也去尋找我自己的一部分

  • to understand what happened and to look for part of myself as well.

    我們工作的方式是: 由我們給大家資訊

  • The way we work is that we give people information.

    和家人討論,讓他們選擇

  • We talk to the family members and we let them choose.

    我們讓他們決定 要不要將他們的故事告訴我們

  • We let them decide to tell us the stories,

    告訴我們他們看到的

  • to tell us what they saw,

    告訴我們關於他們所愛的家人的事

  • to tell us about their loved ones.

    更重要的是

  • And even more important,

    我們讓他們決定 是否給我們他們自己的一部分

  • we let them choose to give us a piece of themselves.

    主要是,”他們是誰“的一部分

  • A piece, an essence, of who they are.

    那些DNA就是我們要用來比對

  • And that DNA is what we're going to compare

    骨骸的DNA

  • to the DNA that comes from the skeletons.

    在做那個的同時 我們也在找受害者的屍體

  • While we're doing that, though, we're looking for the bodies.

    那些現在都已成為骨骸了

  • And these are skeletons by now,

    大多數的罪行發生在32年前

  • most of these crimes happened 32 years ago.

    當我們找到墳墓時

  • When we find the grave,

    我們清掉泥土,最後清潔身體, 做資料,再取出來

  • we take out the dirt and eventually clean the body, document it, and exhume it.

    我們真的是從地下取出骨骸

  • We literally bring the skeleton out of the ground.

    拿到這些屍體後, 我們將他們 帶回到我們所在城市的實驗室

  • Once we have those bodies, though, we take them back to the city, to our lab,

    然後我們開始試著去 了解主要的兩點:

  • and we begin a process of trying to understand mainly two things:

    第一點是他們是怎麼死的

  • One is how people died.

    這裡你看到的是從頭後面開槍的傷口

  • So here you see a gunshot wound to the back of the head

    或者例如是用彎刀砍的傷口

  • or a machete wound, for example.

    另一點我們要了解的是他們是誰

  • The other thing we want to understand is who they are.

    是一個嬰兒?

  • Whether it's a baby,

    或是一個成人?

  • or an adult.

    是女人? 還是男人?

  • Whether it's a woman or a man.

    但是當我們完成分析後

  • But when we're done with that analysis

    我們會拿骨頭的一小碎片

  • what we'll do is we'll take a small fragment of the bone

    然後從那裡抽取出DNA

  • and we'll extract DNA from it.

    我們再拿那個DNA

  • We'll take that DNA

    和他們家人的DNA做比對

  • and then we'll compare it with the DNA of the families, of course.

    為各位解釋這一點的最好方法 就是讓你們看兩個例子

  • The best way to explain this to you is by showing you two cases.

    第一個是是軍方日記

  • The first is the case of the military diary.

    這個是在1999年 從某處偷渡出來的文件

  • Now this is a document that was smuggled out of somewhere in 1999.

    然後你這裡看到的是政府追踪一個人

  • And what you see there is the state following individuals,

    一個像你一樣 想要改變他們的國家的人

  • people that, like you, wanted to change their country,

    他們將每件事記錄下來

  • and they jotted everything down.

    他們寫下來的其中一件事是 他們殺害這些人的日期

  • And one of the things that they wrote down is when they executed them.

    在那個黃色的方塊內

  • Inside that yellow rectangle, you see a code,

    有一個密碼:300

  • it's a secret code: 300.

    然後你看到一個日期

  • And then you see a date.

    那個300是指“已殺害” 那個日期是他們被殺害的日期

  • The 300 means "executed" and the date means when they were executed.

    等一下你就會知道關聯了

  • Now that's going to come into play in a second.

    我們在2003年做了一次墳墓挖掘

  • What we did is we conducted an exhumation in 2003,

    那次我們在一個軍事基地內的 53個墳墓挖出了220個屍體

  • where we exhumed 220 bodies from 53 graves in a military base.

    而從第九號墳墓堆出來的 是沙基歐·沙無·李拿瑞斯

  • Grave 9, though, matched the family of Sergio Saul Linares.

    沙基歐是一位大學教授

  • Now Sergio was a professor at the university.

    他畢業於愛荷華州立大學

  • He graduted from Iowa State University

    回到瓜地馬拉去改變他的國家

  • and went back to Guatemala to change his country.

    他在1984年2月23日被抓走

  • And he was captured on February 23, 1984.

    如果你看得到的話 他是在1984年3月29日被殺的

  • And if you can see there, he was executed on March 29, 1984,

    真是不可思議

  • which was incredible.

    我們有屍體,家人資料 和他們的DNA

  • We had the body, we had the family's information and their DNA,

    現在我們也有文件資料 告訴我們發生的事情

  • and now we have documents that told us exactly what happened.

    但更重要的,大約兩星期後

  • But most important is about two weeks later,

    我們有找到另一個成功的配對

  • we go another hit, another match

    也是在同一個墳墓 叫做阿曼西歐·威亞頭羅

  • from the same grave to Amancio Villatoro.

    那個屍體的DNA 也和那個家人配對成功

  • The DNA of that body also matched the DNA of that family.

    然後我們也注意到 他也被記載在日記裡

  • And then we noticed that he was also in the diary.

    驚人的是 他也是在 1984年3月29日被殺的

  • But it was amazing to see that he was also executed on March 29, 1984.

    那讓我們開始思考, 到底那個墳墓有幾個屍體

  • So that led us to think, hmm, how many bodies were in the grave?

    有6個

  • Six.

    然後我們就在想到底有幾個人 在1984年3月29日被殺呢

  • So then we said, how many people were executed on March 29, 1984?

    沒錯,也是六個

  • That's right, six as well.

    我們找到璜·德·蒂歐斯, 烏鉤,摩伊瑟斯和索依樓

  • So we have Juan de Dios, Hugo, Moises and Zoilo.

    他們在不同地方被抓 但都是在同一天被殺

  • All of them executed on the same date, all captured at different locations

    不同的時間被殺

  • and at different moments.

    都放在同一個墳墓

  • All put in that grave.

    我們只需要這個四個家人的DNA

  • The only thing we needed now was the DNA of those four families

    我們就去找他們,而我們也找到了

  • So we went and we looked for them and we found them.

    我們確認了那六個屍體 然後還給他們的家人

  • And we identified those six bodies and gave them back to the families.

    另一個我要告訴你們的案例是

  • The other case I want to tell you about

    一個名為哥列偶安巴斯的軍事基地

  • is that of a military base called CREOMPAZ.

    它的意思其實是“相信和平” 但是這條大寫縮寫代表的是

  • It actually means, "to believe in peace," but the acronym really means

    維持和平作業地區指揮中心

  • Regional Command Center for Peacekeeping Operations.

    這是瓜地馬拉軍方 訓練其他國家來的和平維持者的地方

  • And this is where the Guatemalan military trains peacekeepers from other countries,

    這些人為聯合國服務

  • the ones that serve with the U.N.

    然後他們去像海地和剛果這樣的國家

  • and go to countries like Haiti and the Congo.

    我們有證詞說,在這個軍事基地裡 有屍體和墳墓

  • Well, we have testimony that said that within this military base,

    所以我們拿著搜查令去到那裡 我們進去兩小時後

  • there were bodies, there were graves.

    我們發現84座墳墓中的第一座, 裡面總共有533個屍體

  • So we went in there with a search warrant and about two hours after we went in,

    你想想看

  • we found the first of 84 graves, a total of 533 bodies.

    和平維持者是在屍體的上面受訓的

  • Now, if you think about that,

    實在是很諷刺!

  • peacekeepers being trained on top of bodies.

    大多數的屍體,面向下, 手被綁在背後

  • It's very ironic.

    眼睛被蒙住,各種各樣的傷痕 -

  • But the bodies -- face down, most of them, hands tied behind their backs,

    這些人在被殺時是完全沒有抵抗力的

  • blindfolded, all types of trauma --

    他們是533個家庭在找的家人

  • these were people who were defenseless who were being executed.

    我們現在要談談第十五號墳墓

  • People that 533 families are looking for.

    第15號墳墓,我們注意到, 是一個滿是女人和小孩子的墳墓

  • So we're going to focus on Grave 15.

    共63人

  • Grave 15, what we noticed, was a grave full of women and children,

    那讓我們馬上想到

  • 63 of them.

    我的天,哪曾有這樣的案件?

  • And that immediately made us think,

    當我1995年到達瓜地馬拉時

  • my goodness, where is there a case like this?

    我聽說有一件 在1982年5月14日發生的屠殺

  • When I got to Guatemala in 1995,

    軍隊去到那裡,殺掉男人

  • I heard of a case of a massacre that happened on May 14, 1982,

    將女人和小孩子們 用直升機載到不明地點

  • where the army came in, killed the men,

    你猜怎麼樣?

  • and took the women and children in helicopters to an unknown location.

    這個墳墓裡的衣服 和那個地區的服裝吻合

  • Well, guess what?

    也就是他們被帶走的地區

  • The clothing from this grave matched the clothing from the region

    這些女人和小孩子們被帶走的地區

  • where these people were taken from,

    所以我們做了一些DNA分析, 你猜怎麼了?

  • where these women and children were taken from.

    我們對到了瑪爾丁娜.羅哈斯 和曼努爾.陳

  • So we conducted some DNA analysis, and guess what?

    這兩個人都是在那裡失踪的, 現在我們可以證明

  • We identified Martina Rojas and Manuel Chen.

    我們有物證可以證明 這個事件的確曾發生

  • Both of them disappeared in that case, and now we could prove it.

    以及這些人的確是被帶到了這個基地

  • We have physical evidence that proves that this happened

    曼努爾·陳才三歲

  • and that those people were taken to this base.

    他的母親將他託付給一個鄰居 然後去河邊洗衣服

  • Now, Manuel Chen was three years old.

    那時軍隊來到

  • His mother went to the river to wash clothes, and she left him with a neighbor.

    那時他被直升機帶走後 就沒有人再見到他

  • That's when the army came

    直到我們在第15號墳墓裡發現他

  • and that's when he was taken away in a helicopter and never seen again

    所以現在用科學,考古學, 人類學,和遺傳學

  • until we found him in Grave 15.

    我們所做的是 我們讓無聲者發出聲音

  • So now with science, with archaeology, with anthropology, with genetics,

    但我們所做的還更多

  • what we're doing is, we're giving a voice to the voiceless.

    我們實際上在為審判提供證據

  • But we're doing more than that.

    例如瓜地馬拉去年舉行的 種族屠殺的審判

  • We're actually providing evidence for trials,

    利歐斯·蒙特將軍被判 種族屠殺罪和80年的監禁

  • like the genocide trial that happened last year in Guatemala

    所以我今天來這裡告訴你們 這是每個地方都在發生的事

  • where Generalos Montt was found guilty of genocide and sentenced to 80 years.

    就在我們的眼前,在墨西哥發生

  • So I came here to tell you today that this is happening everywhere --

    我們不能再讓它繼續發生了

  • it's happening in Mexico right in front of us today --

    我們現在必須聯合起來並決定

  • and we can't let it go on anymore.

    我們絕不再讓任何人失踪

  • We have to now come together and decide

    不再有人失踪

  • that we're not going to have any more missing.

    好嗎?不再有人失踪!謝謝

  • So no more missing, guys.

    (掌聲)

  • Okay? No more missing.

  • Thank you.

  • (Applause)

Guatemala is recovering from a 36-year armed conflict.

瓜地馬拉正在 從36年前的武力衝突中恢復過來

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B1 中級 中文 美國腔 TED 墳墓 屍體 瓜地馬拉 家人 殺害

【TED】弗雷迪-佩切利:一位法醫人類學家,為 "失蹤者 "帶來了結局。 (【TED】Fredy Peccerelli: A forensic anthropologist who brings closure for the “disappeared")

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