Name: 美國的呼喚：與 Rajika Bhandari 博士一同反思國際留學！ (America Calling: Reflections on International Study With Dr. Rajika Bhandari)
Uploaded: 2026-01-13T17:53:14.000Z
Duration: 27 min 3 s

Welcome back to another episode of Breaking Boundaries, the world's premier podcast for international students.

歡迎回到 Breaking Boundaries，這是全球頂尖的國際學生Podcast節目。

至少我們在排行榜上有出現啦。

今天我請到了一位很特別的來賓。

My guest, Rajika Bandari has extensive experience in international education.

我的來賓 Rajika Bandari 在國際教育領域有非常豐富的經驗。

She is a scholar, she's an expert on international education.

她是一位學者，也是國際教育的專家。

She's also a first generation immigrant and Indian American.

她也是一位第一代移民，是印度裔美國人。

And perhaps most relevant to the time, she has a wonderful book out called America Calling a Foreign Student and a Country of Possibility.

而且，或許跟現在的時事最相關的是，她最近出版了一本很棒的書，叫做 America Calling a Foreign Student and a Country of Possibility。

I am so excited to interrogate, no, excuse me, engage in a conversation with Rajika.

我非常興奮要審問，不對，抱歉，是要跟 Rajika 進行對話。

非常感謝你今天來參加我們的節目。

And yes, we can chat, we can interrogate, we can do have a broad ranging conversation.

對啊，我們可以哈拉，可以審問，可以進行一場廣泛的對話。

Well, I appreciate that you have the book in the background and I would highly recommend it to students who are considering studying in the US or even those who have attended and graduated from an American school.

嗯，我很欣賞你把書放在背景裡，我非常推薦這本書給考慮在美國學習的學生，甚至是那些已經在美國學校就讀並畢業的學生。

But to start, Rajika, I wanted to ask you about your own experience.

但首先，Rajika，我想問問妳自己的經驗。

Why did you decide to come to the US to study?

So I often say that my journey is actually not particularly remarkable because it really has been the journey of hundreds and thousands of Indian students who've been coming to the US since the 1960s.

我常常說，我的旅程其實沒什麼特別的，因為它其實就是數百萬自1960年代以來來到美國的印度學生的旅程。

And I think like many of those students, you know, I grew up in the India of the 70s and always saw people around me sort of looking west for their higher education.

我想，就像許多那些學生一樣，妳知道的，我在70年代的印度長大，總是看到我周圍的人為了高等教育而看向西方。

Or to put it another way, the west was sort of seen as that the icing on the cake or the ultimate that you could aim for in terms of a higher education degree.

換句話說，西方被視為是錦上添花，或是你在高等教育學位方面可以追求的終極目標。

Now, around that time, the UK was still quite sought after, but something was beginning to shift.

那個時候，英國仍然很受歡迎，但有些東西開始轉變了。

I think by the 80s, by the early 90s, that's when the US really became very prominent as a destination.

我認為到了80年代、90年代初期，美國才真正成為一個非常熱門的留學目的地。

And back in India we began to hear more and more of American universities, of more students going to the US as opposed to the uk.

然後在印度，我們開始越來越常聽到美國的學校，聽到越來越多的學生選擇去美國而不是英國。

And so I think just culturally around me, I was always seeing that.

所以我想，在文化上，我周圍一直都是這樣的情況。

One of my uncles was the first to come out to study in the US.

我的叔叔是第一個出來到美國讀書的。

He came out in the 1960s when the US reopened its doors to students from Asia.

他是在1960年代來的，那時候美國重新向亞洲學生敞開了大門。

And the US had gone through a period where prior to that it had stopped all inflows of students coming in from Asia.

在那之前，美國經歷了一段時間，停止了所有來自亞洲的學生入境。

And that resumed in the 1960s when there was the civil rights movement and comprehensive immigration reform and the government sort of opened up the doors again for students from countries like India to come to the US and so at that time there was this big flow of students coming in, including an uncle of mine.

而到了1960年代，隨著民權運動和全面的移民改革，政府再次向印度等國家的學生開放了留學機會，所以那時候有大批學生湧入，包括我的叔叔。

And so there were all these examples around me, something my father aspired to for me, that I would go abroad and study.

所以周圍有這麼多例子，我父親也希望我能出國留學。

So I think it was just sort of ingrained in the Indian consciousness, as I think it is for many Indian students today, that if you really want to pursue this educational dream to not only attend a good college in India, but

所以我想，這就像是深深植根於印度人的意識中，我想對現在許多印度學生來說也是如此，如果你真的想追求這個教育夢想，不僅要在印度讀一所好大學，

then to sort of cap it off with a foreign degree and ideally a degree acquired in the US or the UK or one of the Anglophone countries.

然後就以一個外國學位來為這一切畫下句點，最好是在美國、英國或英語系國家取得的學位。

However, I also moved to the US for a personal reason.

不過，我搬到美國也是有個人原因。

And I won't give away too much because I'm hoping that your listeners will indeed have the opportunity to check out my book.

我不會透露太多，因為我希望聽眾有機會能看看我的書。

But that's one of the points that I do make in the book, that we're often so focused on students motivations and sort of these higher aspirations.

但這也是書裡我提出的其中一點，我們常常太專注於學生的動機和這些更高的抱負。

But in fact, very often we're also people, we're individuals, and we're also moving for personal reasons.

但事實上，我們也常常是人，是個體，也是因為個人原因而移動。

So I think for me, it was all of those things on that topic, thinking not just of the exodus of folks from India to the US to study.

所以我想對我來說，這一切都跟那個主題有關，不只是想到人們從印度到美國留學的遷徙潮。

You mentioned in the 80s and 90s, there was a shift in the perception of the UK as the ultimate destination and rise in interest in American universities.

你提到在80年代和90年代，英國作為最終目的地的觀念有所轉變，對美國大學的興趣也隨之升高。

My curiosity was that downstream of culture, more specifically in the 80s and 90s, did you start to see more American films, read more American books happening at roughly the same time?

我的好奇是，在文化影響之下，更具體來說，在80年代和90年代，你是否也差不多同時開始看到更多美國電影、閱讀更多美國書籍？

I mean, I always say that, you know, if you think about Hollywood or you think of, you know, the quintessential forms of American music like jazz and the blues, those have been some of America's best exports and sort of a form of soft power and soft diplomacy that have really allowed the world to learn about and love America.

我一直都這麼說，你知道，如果你想到好萊塢，或者想到像是爵士和藍調這些美國音樂的經典形式，它們一直是美國最棒的輸出，也是一種軟實力和軟外交，讓世界認識並喜愛美國。

As technology was expanded, expanding, as more and more people were acquiring television sets, as cable was arriving in households, there was this opening up of really beginning to know more and more about America.

隨著科技的擴展，越來越多人擁有電視機，有線電視也進入家庭，這一切都開始讓我們更深入地瞭解美國。

And I think the UK was, I don't want to say beginning to fade into the background, because that's definitely not true.

我認為英國，我不想說開始變得不那麼重要，因為絕對不是這樣。

It's still a very desirable destination for many Indians.

它對許多印度人來說仍然是一個非常理想的留學地點。

But it was beginning to sort of be balanced out by the growing awareness that there are other opportunities, there are other countries to consider that might be interesting.

但這開始被一種越來越強烈的認知所平衡，那就是還有其他機會，還有其他國家可以考慮，而且可能很有趣。

And a growing realization that the UK has a very small higher education sector.

並且越來越多人意識到，英國的高等教育體系非常小。

A lot of the institutions are fairly elite.

So even if we just think about where were the opportunities and how many of those opportunities were there.

所以，即使我們只考慮機會在哪裡，以及有多少這樣的機會。

I think there was this growing realization of how many universities there are in the us how many more options there might be.

我認為大家越來越意識到，美國有多少大學，有多少更多的選擇。

And in the meantime, again, thinking about what was happening in the 60s, there were enough Indians who by then had come to the US and all of that information was sort of traveling back home to India again on sort of their experiences and institutions, wanting to host more Indian students.

而且同時，再次回想一下 60 年代發生的事，當時已經有足夠多的印度人來到美國，這些資訊也透過他們的經驗和學校，傳回了印度，讓印度也想招收更多印度學生。

And some of it also just had to, again, I love to think about these things in a historical context.

其中一部分，再次強調，我喜歡從歷史脈絡來思考這些事情。

Some of it also had to do with this post independence society, that India timeframe that India was in, because the association with the UK is an obvious one because of India being a former British colony.

一部分也跟獨立後的社會有關，當時印度正處於那個時期，因為印度曾是英國殖民地，所以與英國的連結是很明顯的。

But one of the things that a lot of people don't know is that when we think about, again, higher education as connecting countries, that several American universities were actually instrumental in helping build the famous Indian Institutes of technology, or the IITs in India post independence.

但很多人不知道的是，當我們想到高等教育如何連結國家時，有幾所美國大學在印度獨立後，其實在協助建立著名的印度理工學院（IITs）方面扮演了關鍵角色。

So again, there was this growing influence of American higher education in India which had not existed before.

所以，再次強調，美國高等教育在印度的影響力越來越大，這在以前是不存在的。

And one more cultural question for you, and I'll start with a brief prologue to the question, and

還有一個文化上的問題想請教您，我會先簡單鋪陳一下這個問題，

that is this Christmas, I took my kids, I've got young kids, and

那就是這個聖誕節，我帶我的孩子們，我孩子還小，

over Christmas break, you're just desperate to get them out of the house.

然後在聖誕假期期間，你就是很想帶他們出去玩。

So I took them to our local movie theater and I took a screenshot of the Showtimes and the films that we're showing because of the 10 films, and

所以我帶他們去了我們當地的電影院，我還截了電影時刻表和正在上映的電影畫面，因為總共有 10 部電影，

Of the 10 films that were being shown this Christmas, two were from India.

在這個聖誕節上映的10部電影中，有2部是印度的。

So that's 20% of the films at a mainstream theater.

所以這佔了主流電影院裡電影的20%。

And oh, by the way, the theater is right next to a restaurant called Godavari, which is one of the, I would say, dozen Indian restaurants that are within two miles of my house.

順帶一提，這家電影院就在一家叫做 Godavari 的餐廳旁邊，這是我家兩英里內大概十幾家印度餐廳中的一家。

So I give you this context to say, have you been surprised at the extent to which the cultural flow has at least allowed for more flow of Indian culture to America, or is that a natural consequence of the growing diaspora here?

我提供這些背景是想問，您是否對於文化交流讓印度文化流入美國的程度感到驚訝，還是這是因為這裡的移民社群日益壯大而自然產生的結果？

The Indian diaspora now is in the US is so large and so prominent, I forget the exact number, but

現在在美國的印度移民社群非常龐大且活躍，我忘了確切數字，但

And just in terms of growth rates is actually one of the fastest growing Asian diasporas in the US So I think there's definitely, you know, that, that, that awareness of and growing presence of Indians and South Asians in the US but also beyond that, I think it's all of this flow of information, of knowledge, of technology.

就成長率來看，它其實是美國成長最快的亞洲移民社群之一。所以我想，這絕對有，你知道的，就是對印度人和南亞人在美國的意識和日益增長的影響力，但除此之外，我認為這也是資訊、知識和科技的交流。

印度在1990年代之後開放了很多。

Again, that was the time as a result of economic liberalization, that was also when, again, you know, access to the types of television programs people were seeing back in India just exploded.

當時因為經濟開放，印度國內能看到的電視節目種類也爆炸性地增加了。

Like, I am amazed when I go back to India now and I, you know, my teenager with me, and

像是，我現在回印度時，我跟我的青少年女兒一起，

她跟她的表兄弟姐妹們在一起，

They meet maybe once every couple of years.

And, you know, you would think they don't have much in common, but

你可能會覺得他們沒什麼共同點，但

what they're bonding over is American pop music.

他們卻因為美國流行音樂而產生連結。

And they're all listening to the same music on Spotify and they're sharing playlists.

他們都在 Spotify 上聽一樣的音樂，分享播放清單。

And, you know, these are the things that often connect people.

這些往往是連結人與人之間的事物。

You know, the shared experiences of music and films and popular culture.

像是共同的音樂、電影和流行文化體驗。

And, you know, so now we have generations of Indians who are very, very familiar with all of the same TV shows we see right here in the U.S.

而且，你知道，所以現在我們有幾代的印度人，他們對我們在美國這裡看到的各種電視節目都非常非常熟悉。

And Tom Friedman said, you know, the world is flat and indeed, it's flattened in many, many ways, and

湯姆·弗裡德曼說，你知道，世界是平的，而且確實，它在很多很多方面都變平了，而且

just people sharing the same sorts of experiences that are often driven by technology.

人們只是分享著常常由科技驅動的類似經驗。

But even beyond that, you know, we're talking about the.

但即使超越了這一點，你知道，我們正在談論。

It's often said that the two countries are the world's largest democracies.

人們常說這兩個國家是世界上最大的兩個民主國家。

And that sounds like a cliche, but it's not.

這聽起來像陳腔濫調，但事實並非如此。

Because, again, when you think about sort of diplomacy, how the two countries have tried to engage with each other, and

因為，再說一次，當你想到外交，這兩個國家如何試圖與對方互動，以及

even now at this moment in time where I will say that the US Is going through a difficult time, but

即使在現在這個時刻，我會說美國正經歷一段艱難的時期，但是

I'm really, really optimistic about the India relationship, I don't know about the relationship with other countries, but

我對印度關係真的、真的感到樂觀，我不知道對其他國家的關係，但是

I'll say that the US India one looks pretty promising because of the strong relationships between the governments of the two countries and that, you know, the leaders of both countries have made vocal commitments to, you know, continuing educational exchanges and continuing to at least support the work of higher education as we know it.

我認為美印關係看起來很有希望，因為兩國政府之間有著穩固的關係，而且，你知道的，兩國領導人都公開承諾，你知道的，繼續進行教育交流，並繼續至少支持我們所知的高等教育工作。

In my personal life, I've seen the growth of the Indian diaspora.

在我個人生活中，我看到了印度僑民的成長。

我在奧克拉荷馬州的塔爾薩長大，

my best friend growing up, his parents migrated as part of that wave in the 70s.

我從小最好的朋友，他的父母在 70 年代作為那股移民潮的一部分移民過來。

But there were very, very few people in Tulsa that looked like that family.

但在塔爾薩，很少有人長得像那個家庭。

Indian Americans have a much broader footprint in the American Midwest, not to mention the obvious places like the coastal cities.

印度裔美國人在美國中西部地區的影響力擴大了許多，更不用說像沿海城市這樣顯而易見的地方了。

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美國的呼喚：與 Rajika Bhandari 博士一同反思國際留學！ (America Calling: Reflections on International Study With Dr. Rajika Bhandari)

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