Name: 放寬兩孩福利上限對英國納稅人公平嗎？| 提問時間 (Is lifting the two-child benefit cap fair to UK taxpayers? | Question Time)
Uploaded: 2025-12-12T17:13:55.000Z
Duration: 20 min 15 s

程度副詞

See, when I listen to politicians talking about the benefit system, it's very clear that they don't use it and that they haven't had very much direct experience with it.

你看，當我聽政治人物談論福利制度時，很明顯他們自己不用，也沒有什麼直接經驗。

情態副詞

How can the government assure taxpayers that the lifting of the two child cap benefit will actually take children out of poverty and not just fund their parents lifestyles?

政府要怎麼向納稅人保證，取消兩孩福利上限真的能讓孩子脫離兒童貧困，而不是隻資助父母的生活呢？

So the UK government announced the two child benefit cap is going to be lifted from April next year.

所以英國政府宣佈，從明年四月起將取消兩孩福利上限。

What's your feeling about this, Christine?

Well, I don't have children of mourn, unfortunately, but

嗯，我 Unfortunately 沒有小孩，但是

having seen some news articles where parents are complaining about being unable to feed their children, etc.

看了些新聞報導，家長抱怨沒辦法餵飽孩子等等。

They've maybe got four children, you see them getting interviewed and they've got their nails all beautifully manicured.

他們可能有四個小孩，你看他們受訪時，指甲都塗得漂漂亮亮的。

I think it all comes down to affordability.

我認為這一切都關乎負擔能力。

And with the money going to the parents, it's up to the parents how they decide on how they spend that money.

錢會給父母，至於他們怎麼決定花費，就看父母自己了。

And if they don't spend that money wisely, I don't see how those poor children are going to get taken out of poverty.

如果他們沒有明智地花錢，我看不出來那些可憐的孩子要怎麼擺脫貧困。

So would you have kept that benefit cap if the choice had been yours?

所以，如果選擇權在你，你會保留那個福利上限嗎？

looked at other ways in which we could take children out of poverty, because that's most important.

會尋找其他方法來讓孩子們脫離貧困，因為那才是最重要的。

Look, child poverty in Scotland is falling at a faster rate than anywhere else on these isles because we introduced the likes of the Scottish child payment and it's why we were arguing that the two child cap should be scrapped so that we can reduce that rate even further.

你看，蘇格蘭的兒童貧困下降的速度比其他任何地方都快，因為我們推出了蘇格蘭兒童補助金，這也是為什麼我們主張廢除兩孩福利上限，以便我們能進一步降低這個比率。

Now, belatedly, the UK government came to agree with us and that's happening and children will be lifted out of poverty as a result.

現在，英國政府遲來的同意了我們的看法，而且這正在發生，孩子們也將是以脫離貧困。

We all have a moral responsibility as taxpayers and as citizens in Scotland to want that to be the case.

作為納稅人和蘇格蘭的公民，我們都有道德責任希望情況能這樣。

I guess the bigger question though that you've asked there is affordability.

我想你剛才問的更大的問題是關於負擔能力。

And when we look at the UK economy and the finances which underpin it, they're not in a great state.

而且當我們檢視英國的經濟以及支撐它的財政狀況時，它們的狀況並不是很好。

And the Chancellor's budget just two weeks ago now had growth being downgraded, had living standards falling, rising, sorry, at a slower rate than the otherwise would have done.

而財政大臣兩個禮拜前的預算，成長被下調了，生活水準下降，抱歉，是比原本會慢。

And of course we'll see people with wages that are comparable to what they were in 2008, which is why was more about how can you guarantee that the parents will spend that money on the children.

當然，我們會看到人們的工資跟 2008 年差不多，這也是為什麼更重要的是你如何保證父母會把這筆錢花在孩子身上。

You're saying that the children are getting lifted out of poverty.

You're still seeing children going to school not having proper clothing, not having warm food, you know, to go to school with, they're not getting fed properly.

你還是看到孩子們上學沒有合適的衣服，沒有熱騰騰的食物，你知道，帶去學校，他們沒有好好吃飯。

So where are you getting this information that they're actually getting lifted out of poverty?

所以你從哪裡得到他們正在脫離貧困的資訊？

So, in relation to the point, if I could just finish my point, one of the reasons why people are in poverty is because wages are at the levels of 2008.

所以，關於這一點，如果我能說完我的話，人們陷入貧困的原因之一是工資停留在 2008 年的水準。

And I think that's deeply regrettable and it's a reflection of the Union itself.

我認為這非常令人遺憾，也是對聯合王國本身的一種反映。

When it comes to kids being lifted out of poverty, we take into account what all of the experts tell us in this regard, and

當談到讓孩子們脫離貧困時，我們會考慮所有專家在這方面的說法，並且

I like to think that their assessments will be accurate.

And when it comes to the Scottish child payment, we've seen that reflected in the numbers of kids that have been lifted out of poverty.

至於蘇格蘭兒童補助金，我們已經看到孩子們脫離貧困的數字有所反映。

And we have to have faith in those parents that they'll spend that money wisely to look after kids as best that they can.

我們必須相信這些父母會明智地花錢，盡力照顧孩子。

我不能總是把原因歸咎於工資。

You only have to look at the latest iPhones, the cost of them.

你只要看看最新的 iPhone，它們的價格。

They seem to be able to afford things like iPhones, nails, tattoos, etc.

他們似乎能負擔得起 iPhone、指甲、紋身等等。

First is it's not the children's fault and these children don't deserve to grow up in poverty and therefore it's right government takes action and half a million children being left out of poverty because the decisions made in that budget should be welcomed rather than criticised by the SNP leader and Stephen Flynn.

第一點是這不是孩子們的錯，這些孩子不應該在貧困中長大，所以政府採取行動是正確的，而且因為那個預算做出的決定，讓五十萬兒童脫離貧困，這應該受到歡迎，而不是被 SNP 黨魁和 Stephen Flynn 批評。

Second point I'd make is where I do agree is welfare can only be one part of a joint up approach to challenging poverty.

第二點是我同意福利只能是挑戰貧困的聯合方法的一部分。

I fundamentally believe that welfare is the sticky plaster but actual fact.

我認為福利只是權宜之計，但事實上。

If you're going to challenge structural poverty, it means giving kids the education they deserve, giving them the skills they deserve, the jobs they deserve and the level of pay they deserve so they can lift their families out of generational poverty that has scarred too many parts of Paisley and too many parts of my home city of Glasgow for far too long.

如果你要挑戰結構性貧困，那就意味著要給孩子們應得的教育、應得的技能、應得的工作和應得的薪資水準，這樣他們才能讓家庭擺脫世世代代貧困的泥沼，這種貧困已經讓 Paisley 的許多地方和我家鄉格拉斯哥的許多地方長期以來傷痕累累。

And the reason why this urgent action had to be taken is because we're trying to repair 15 years of damage done by the Conservatives, where they deliberately pushed people into poverty and punished them because of their ideological drive.

之所以必須採取緊急行動，是因為我們正在試圖修補保守黨造成的 15 年損害，他們出於意識形態的驅動，故意讓人民陷入貧困並懲罰他們。

So I agree with the lifting of the 2 child benefit cap, but

所以我同意取消兩孩福利上限，但是

what we need now is the urgent structural action and so much of that is actually in the poverty in Scotland.

我們現在需要的是緊急的結構性行動，其中很多都與蘇格蘭的貧困有關。

I used to be the local dentist here in Paisley and I saw directly that the health inequalities that people faced were directly linked to their economic inequalities.

我以前是這裡的當地牙醫，我親眼看到人們面臨的健康不平等，直接與他們的經濟不平等有關。

And unless we lifted those people out of poverty, we couldn't get them to have better health.

除非我們讓那些人擺脫貧困，否則我們無法讓他們擁有更好的健康。

And unless we gave them access to health care, we couldn't also lift them out of structurally.

而且，除非我們讓他們獲得醫療保健，否則我們也無法讓他們擺脫結構性的問題。

Why is lifting the 2 child benefit cap for Labour a moral mission this year and last year?

為什麼取消兩孩福利上限對工黨來說是今年和去年的一項道德使命？

So, first of all, you can only make decisions when you know where the money is coming from.

所以，首先，只有當你知道錢從哪裡來時，你才能做出決定。

Well, there's not suddenly more money this year.

嗯，今年並沒有突然多出錢來。

That's why taxes are going up and that's why it was important that we identified money.

這就是為什麼稅收在增加，這也是為什麼我們確定資金來源很重要。

But the reason why it's a moral mission is I don't think it would be acceptable after the 15 years of damage we've had for the Conservatives, that a Labour government, people that came into politics because they want to fight poverty and eradicate poverty, we would see child poverty numbers going up.

但這之所以是一項道德使命，是因為我認為，在保守黨造成的 15 年損害之後，一個工黨政府，那些因為想對抗貧困和根除貧困而從政的人，看到兒童貧困數字上升，這是不可接受的。

And that's why we needed the urgent action.

這就是為什麼我們需要緊急行動。

And I will wholeheartedly support that urgent action to lift half a million kids out of poverty.

我會全力支持這項緊急行動，讓五百萬名兒童脫離貧困。

嗯，我們就來談談這份工作吧。

But we have to challenge the structural issues that underlie it too.

但我們也必須挑戰其背後的結構性問題。

So now that the child benefit cap has been lifted.

所以現在兒童福利上限已經取消了。

The SNP had a plan in place in Scotland that they were going to put a payment in place to help remove that for families of Scotland.

SNP 在蘇格蘭有個計畫，他們打算實施一項補助金，來幫助蘇格蘭的家庭解決這個問題。

Obviously there was a fund that was going to be set aside for that.

What do you propose that fund should now be used for in Scotland?

你建議這筆基金現在在蘇格蘭應該用來做什麼？

I'm going to come back to that, but I will make sure you get an answer.

我會再回來談這個，但我會確保你得到答案。

Poverty's always been around and always will be, but

貧困一直都在，而且將來也會一直存在，但是

instead the politicians all having a go at each other.

Why can't you all work together and try and solve this problem for the children and people struggling?

你們為什麼不能一起合作，試著為孩子們和正在掙扎的人們解決這個問題？

What a common refrain that we hear on Question Time.

這是在「質詢時間」裡，我們經常聽到的老調重彈。

這位女士問了一個相當直接的問題。

And to my mind, in many cases, the obstacle that stops these children being lifted out of poverty are in many cases, the parents that are on receipt.

在我看來，在很多情況下，阻礙這些孩子脫離貧困的因素，往往是那些正在領取福利的父母。

We can't guarantee that these kids are going to be helped because Many parents use it for themselves.

我們無法保證這些孩子會得到幫助，因為許多父母會將其用於自己。

They're adults who want the best for their children and I totally agree.

他們是成年人，希望孩子們過得最好，我完全同意。

Lifting the two child benefit clap and I'd like to thank the Labour Party for lifting it, even though Stephen's obviously said belatedly that Rome wasn't built in a day.

取消兩孩福利上限，我要感謝工黨取消了它，儘管史蒂芬顯然遲來的說羅馬不是一天造成的。

If other parties are doing policies that you agree with, why not just say you're pleased with the fact they're bringing out that policy?

如果其他政黨的政策是你贊同的，為什麼不直接說你很高興他們推出了這項政策？

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放寬兩孩福利上限對英國納稅人公平嗎？| 提問時間 (Is lifting the two-child benefit cap fair to UK taxpayers? | Question Time)

ultimately

access

majority

deserve