Name: 彼得-阿蒂亞博士要想長壽，你需要這樣做 | Amanpour and Company (Dr. Peter Attia: This Is What You Need to Do to Live Longer | Amanpour and Company)
Uploaded: 2024-12-20T06:08:35.000Z
Duration: 18 min 15 s

Well, our next guest says that he has the secret for living a long, healthy, and happy life.

那麼，下一位嘉賓說，他有健康長壽、快樂生活的祕訣。

分詞構句

Dr. Peter Attia's new book lays out a how-to guide for longevity, focusing on preventative approaches rather than treatment.

彼得-阿蒂亞博士的新書提供了長壽指南，重點在於預防而非治療。

And he is joining Hari Sreenivasan to discuss the best habits for a healthier life.

他將與哈里-斯里尼瓦桑一起討論如何養成更健康的生活習慣。

比亞娜，謝謝你，彼得-阿蒂亞博士。

Now, in your new book, Outlive, the Science and Art of Longevity, you're not just trying to help us live longer, but you're trying to get us to be healthy as well.

現在，在您的新書《長壽的科學與藝術》（Outlive, the Science and Art of Longevity）中，您不僅想讓我們活得更長，還想讓我們活得更健康。

I mean, you kind of make a distinction between lifespan and healthspan.

我的意思是，你把壽命和健康壽命區分開來了。

Lifespan is probably the easier of those two things to explain, which is obviously how long you live.

壽命可能是這兩件事中比較容易解釋的，顯然就是你能活多久。

And that, in that sense, is kind of binary.

從這個意義上說，這是一種二元論。

And unfortunately, I think our medical system mostly fixates on that metric.

不幸的是，我認為我們的醫療系統大多隻關注這一指標。

And obviously, what gets measured gets managed, as the old saying goes.

顯然，俗話說得好，"量力而行，管理有方"。

What I think we're not paying nearly enough attention to is the quality of life.

我認為我們對生活品質的關注還遠遠不夠。

And that's what's captured in healthspan, right?

這就是健康手冊中記錄的內容，對嗎？

So there's a cognitive component to that.

There's obviously a very physical component to that.

很明顯，這裡面有非常多的身體因素。

And there's an emotional component to that.

And if you don't really define metrics around those things, it's probably not surprising that we're not managing those things.

如果你沒有真正圍繞這些事情確定衡量標準，那麼我們沒有管理好這些事情也就不足為奇了。

And therefore, most of the resources and attention go to simply prolonging life, even at the expense of quality.

是以，大部分資源和注意力都用於延長生命，甚至犧牲品質。

So when a patient approaches you in your practice, I mean, kind of what are the questions that you're asking them so that you're kind of on the same path together?

所以，當病人在你的診所找到你時，我的意思是，你會問他們哪些問題，這樣你們就能在同一條道路上走下去？

Well, obviously, we want to talk about all of the medical things and all of the things that deal with prolonging life as well.

顯然，我們也想談談所有的醫療問題和延長生命的問題。

So we certainly want to understand all the risks coming in with respect to what we talk about as the four horsemen of death, you know, cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease, cancer, etc.

是以，我們當然希望瞭解與我們所說的死亡四騎士（心血管疾病、神經退行性疾病、癌症等）有關的所有風險。

But on the healthspan side, we spend just as much time and energy thinking about, for example, what do you want to be able to do in the last decade of your life?

但在健康壽命方面，我們花了同樣多的時間和精力去思考，比如，你希望自己在生命的最後十年能做些什麼？

This becomes a very important framing question.

這成為一個非常重要的框架問題。

And the more detail that a person can provide, sometimes with our prodding as to what they actually want to be able to do, right?

有時，在我們的催促下，他們能提供的細節越多，他們就越想知道自己到底想做什麼，對嗎？

Do you want to be able to pick up a grandchild?

These things require very deliberate planning.

And most people can't do these things in the last decade of their life unless they train for it.

而大多數人在生命的最後十年都無法做到這些事情，除非他們為此進行訓練。

So you took a look and studied people who are 100 years old.

所以，你看了看，研究了一下 100 歲的人。

And was there something that they had in common that we can apply in our lives?

他們是否有什麼共同點可以應用到我們的生活中？

So the one thing that is common to all centenarians is that from the standpoint of chronic disease, they're about 20 to 25 years younger than their birth certificate age says.

是以，所有百歲老人的一個共同點是，從慢性病的角度來看，他們比出生證明上的年齡年輕 20 到 25 歲。

In other words, their first brush with cancer, their first brush with heart disease, their first brush with any sort of chronic ailment is about 20 to 30 years after you would expect based on their birth certificate age.

換句話說，根據出生證明上的年齡，他們第一次罹患癌症、第一次罹患心臟病、第一次罹患任何慢性疾病的時間，都要比你預計的晚 20 到 30 年。

And the superpower is they delay the onset of chronic disease.

它們的超強功效就是能延緩慢性疾病的發生。

Now, the question, of course, the million-dollar question is, are they doing something in order to get that superpower, right?

現在，問題是，當然，這個百萬美元的問題是，他們是否為了獲得這種超能力而做了什麼，對嗎？

Is there some magic diet or something like that?

有沒有什麼神奇的減肥方法之類的？

And unfortunately, I say unfortunately for the rest of us who don't have those genes, the answer is no.

不幸的是，對於我們這些沒有這些基因的人來說，答案是否定的。

And it's actually more likely your observation, which is on average, believe it or not, centenarians are more likely to smoke, more likely to drink, less likely to exercise, and less likely to eat well.

實際上，根據你的觀察，百歲老人更有可能吸菸，更有可能喝酒，更不可能鍛鍊，也更不可能吃得好。

And yet, despite those things, they have this supernatural lifespan.

然而，儘管如此，他們卻擁有超自然的壽命。

But that doesn't mean we can't learn from them.

但這並不意味著我們不能向他們學習。

What we learn is we have to apply to ourselves other tools to get their benefits.

我們所學到的是，我們必須將其他工具應用到自己身上，才能獲得它們的益處。

In other words, we have to use nutrition, exercise, sleep, stress, all those other as tools to get what they get for free genetically.

換句話說，我們必須利用營養、運動、睡眠、壓力等所有這些工具，來獲得他們在基因上免費獲得的東西。

We have to create a phase shift of time in the onset of chronic disease.

我們必須對慢性病的發病時間進行階段性調整。

I mean, you write a tremendous amount that that is one of the most beneficial things that we could be doing earlier in our lives to prevent a lot of ailments.

我的意思是，你寫了大量的文章，這是我們在生命早期可以做的最有益的事情之一，可以預防很多疾病。

Yep, exercise is hands down the most potent tool slash intervention that we have to affect both of the metrics we care about, lifespan and healthspan.

沒錯，運動是影響我們所關心的壽命和健康期限這兩項指標的最有效工具。

So on the lifespan side of the equation, having a very high degree of cardiorespiratory fitness, having high muscle mass and high strength relative to your sex and age is a better predictor of longer life, meaning a greater reduction of all cause mortality, death from any causes than anything else we have, positive or negative.

是以，從壽命的角度來看，相對於性別和年齡而言，擁有非常高的心肺功能、高肌肉品質和高力量，是預測長壽的更好指標，也就是說，與其他任何積極或消極的因素相比，能更大程度地降低各種原因導致的死亡率。

The benefit bestowed on an individual from being very high in those categories is greater than the harm that comes from smoking, having high blood pressure, having type two diabetes, even having kidney disease, which would be the step right before needing a transplant.

如果一個人在這些類別中排名非常靠前，那麼他所獲得的益處要大於吸菸、高血壓、二型糖尿病甚至腎臟疾病所帶來的危害，而腎臟疾病正是需要移植手術的前一步。

So as much as we understand how harmful those things are, it's even more beneficial to be incredibly fit and incredibly strong.

是以，儘管我們知道這些東西有多大的危害，但擁有令人難以置信的健康和強壯的體魄更有益處。

So if you're just thinking about how do I live longer, that's the ticket.

所以，如果你只是在考慮如何才能活得更久，這就是你的選擇。

On the other side of the ledger, when we think about the quality of life, there simply is no greater tool to foster neuroprotection and ward off neurodegeneration than exercise.

另一方面，當我們考慮生活品質時，沒有比運動更能促進神經保護和防止神經退化的工具了。

And of course, exercise is the most important piece in maintaining your physical body as you age.

當然，隨著年齡的增長，運動是保持身體健康最重要的一環。

So you can do all those things you would want to do in that last decade of your life.

這樣，你就可以在生命的最後十年做你想做的所有事情。

Is there a combination of things that will help your body prepare for aging better than anything else?

是否有一種組合能比其他任何東西都更有效地幫助你的身體為衰老做好準備？

You know, if there's one drawback to exercise, it's that it takes more time than all of the other things that we might think of as being beneficial.

要知道，如果說運動有什麼缺點的話，那就是它比其他所有我們認為有益的事情都要花費更多的時間。

Few things take as much time to reap the full benefit from as exercise.

很少有什麼事情能像運動一樣，需要花費大量時間才能充分獲益。

You need to be doing cardiorespiratory training, and that cardio training needs to be at different levels of intensity.

你需要進行心肺訓練，而心肺訓練需要有不同的強度。

About 80% of it needs to be at relatively low intensity, the level of intensity at which you could still carry out a conversation, albeit a strained one.

大約 80% 的時間需要在相對較低的強度下進行，在這種強度下，你仍然可以進行對話，儘管是緊張的對話。

And about 20% of it needs to be at a higher level of intensity where you couldn't carry out a conversation.

大約 20% 的時間需要達到較高的強度，以至於你無法進行對話。

And I think for the individual who says, look, Peter, I am not willing to spend more than 90 minutes a week exercising.

我認為，對於那些說，彼得，我不願意每週花超過 90 分鐘鍛鍊的人來說。

Yes, I would rather have them, you know, focus on what's not necessarily what I think the best approach to exercise is, but doing whatever they can to get some benefits.

是的，我寧願讓他們，你知道，專注於我認為最好的鍛鍊方法不一定是什麼，但盡他們所能去獲得一些好處。

But the way I ask my patients is very different.

但我詢問病人的方式卻截然不同。

I say, tell me how many hours a week you're willing to put into this.

我說，告訴我你每週願意為此投入多少時間。

And I've already explained to them and shown them all the data that explain why this is going to have a greater impact on the length and quality of their life than anything they will ever do.

我已經向他們解釋並向他們展示了所有的數據，這些數據解釋了為什麼這對他們生命的長度和品質的影響比他們所做的任何事情都要大。

You, for a time being, were a big fan of keto diets.

你曾一度是酮類飲食的忠實粉絲。

And in the book, you kind of walk through why and how you changed your mind about that.

在書中，你講述了你改變想法的原因和過程。

Explain to our audience, how should we be thinking about nutrition in the context of aging?

向聽眾解釋一下，我們應該如何看待老齡化背景下的營養問題？

I go to great lengths in the book to detach from diets and really just talk about nutrition as a biochemistry phenomenon.

我在書中不遺餘力地脫離飲食，真正將營養作為一種生化現象來討論。

Let's just talk about it through the lens of biochemistry and molecules.

讓我們從生物化學和分子的角度來談談這個問題。

The most important component of your nutrition is basically the energy balance it creates in your body.

營養最重要的組成部分基本上是它在體內形成的能量平衡。

In other words, is a person overnourished or undernourished?

換句話說，一個人是營養過剩還是營養不良？

Now, for most of our existence, we have been undernourished, right?

現在，在我們存在的大部分時間裡，我們都營養不良，對嗎？

For if you think about a thousand years ago, 500 years ago, 200 years ago, most of us were barely getting enough energy, right?

因為如果你想想一千年前、五百年前、兩百年前，我們中的大多數人都只能勉強獲得足夠的能量，對嗎？

And our bodies, of course, evolved remarkable ways to store and hold on to energy.

當然，我們的身體也進化出了儲存和保持能量的非凡方法。

This is what basically allowed us to leapfrog ahead of all other species in terms of our remarkable brains, because our brains are so energy hungry.

正因為如此，我們的大腦才會如此渴求能量，從而使我們的大腦比其他所有物種都更加出色。

Well, that worked really well until our modern environment, which basically created such an abundance of food that now most of us are on the other side of that.

在我們的現代環境之前，這種方法一直很有效，因為現代環境基本上創造瞭如此豐富的食物，以至於現在我們中的大多數人都處於這種環境的另一面。

Strategy number one is you have to reduce energy intake.

戰略一是你必須減少能量攝入。

And there are basically three approaches to that, each of which can work, each of which has advantages, and each of which has disadvantages.

基本上有三種方法，每種方法都能奏效，各有利弊。

So broadly speaking, they are direct caloric restriction, dietary restriction, and time restriction.

是以，從廣義上講，它們是直接的熱量限制、飲食限制和時間限制。

To say a bit more about them, direct caloric restriction, as the name suggests, means you just deliberately go about eating less while paying attention to how much you are eating.

說得更詳細一點，直接限制熱量，顧名思義，就是你故意少吃，同時注意自己吃了多少。

Not necessarily paying attention to when you're eating or what you're eating, but just reducing the total caloric burden.

不一定要注意什麼時候吃，也不一定要注意吃什麼，只要減少總熱量負擔就可以了。

Dietary restriction, of which you mentioned an example, a ketogenic diet is a form of dietary restriction, but so are most quote unquote diets.

飲食限制，你提到過一個例子，生酮飲食就是飲食限制的一種形式，但大多數無引號的飲食也是如此。

This is when you just restrict certain elements within the diet, and what that results in is less overall consumption.

這是指限制飲食中的某些元素，其結果是減少總體消耗量。

So it's an indirect way to go about calorie restriction.

是以，這是一種間接限制卡路里的方法。

Finally, time restriction is also an indirect way to go about calorie restricting by creating a narrower and narrower window in which you eat.

最後，限制時間也是一種間接限制卡路里的方法，它可以讓你進食的時間越來越少。

And if you create a narrow enough window, you will end up reducing intake.

如果窗口足夠小，最終就會減少攝入量。

Now, we don't have to go into the details of how each of these has a benefit and each of these has a risk, but none of these are things that you should do mindlessly.

現在，我們不必細說這其中的每一個好處和每一個風險，但這些都不是你應該漫不經心地做的事情。

Each of these are things you have to be mindful of the blind spots and pitfalls and work around them.

這些都是你必須注意的盲點和陷阱，並加以解決。

You spent a fair amount of time talking about sleep.

I mean, I'm somebody who doesn't get enough sleep and I feel like it's underrated, but younger points in my life, I didn't really think about how much I was getting, maybe because I was obviously younger and I was fitter and I was able to rebound faster.

我的意思是，我是一個睡眠不足的人，我覺得它被低估了，但在我年輕的時候，我真的沒有想過我的睡眠有多少，也許是因為我顯然更年輕，我更健康，我能夠更快地反彈。

But now if I don't get a good night's rest, it's really difficult to perform at the same level every day.

但現在，如果我晚上休息不好，就很難每天都有同樣的表現。

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彼得-阿蒂亞博士要想長壽，你需要這樣做 | Amanpour and Company (Dr. Peter Attia: This Is What You Need to Do to Live Longer | Amanpour and Company)

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