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  • AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening. I'm Amna Nawaz.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

  • On the "NewsHour" tonight: the latest on hostage negotiations and Israel's plan to evacuate

  • Palestinian civilians before full-scale operations to eliminate Hamas and Rafah get under way.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: The Supreme Court hears arguments on whether social media platforms have First

  • Amendment free speech rights.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And relief for food allergy sufferers after trials show an asthma drug

  • reduces dangerous reactions to certain foods.

  • DR. ROBERT WOOD, Johns Hopkins Children's Center: It's been approved now for 21 years to treat asthma.

  • So a lot of the safety, as we face with any drug, has been sorted out over those 21 years.

  • (BREAK)

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "NewsHour."

  • President Biden this evening said it's his hope that, by next Monday, a deal could be

  • struck to implement a cease-fire in Gaza and start an exchange of Israeli hostages for

  • Palestinian prisoners.

  • Meantime, Jordan's King Abdullah warned against an Israeli invasion plan for Rafah in Southern

  • Gaza.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Rafah is now home to many of Gaza's 2.3 million Palestinians who fled fighting

  • in other parts of the strip.

  • Following this all is our Nick Schifrin and he joins me now.

  • So, Nick, let's begin with this hostage deal President Biden says he hopes will be implemented

  • by Monday.

  • What do we know about that?

  • NICK SCHIFRIN: U.S. and Israeli officials tell me that they have a new outline of a

  • deal that would stop the war for about six weeks and lead to the release of 35 to 45

  • hostages.

  • That includes women, the elderly and the wounded.

  • Now, one of the obstacles still is female Israeli soldiers, believed to be five of them,

  • whether Hamas will release them.

  • And there's still no agreement right now as to how many Palestinian prisoners being held

  • by Israel would be released.

  • Now, the goal of this would be to implement this before Ramadan, which begins around March

  • 11.

  • Today, on "FOX & Friends," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reiterated his criticism

  • that he's made multiple times about Hamas' negotiating stance, but also said something

  • he doesn't usually say, that he personally wants a deal.

  • BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, Israeli Prime Minister: I'm not sure Hamas is there.

  • They have what I'd call outlandish demands that's like in another orbit, in another planet.

  • They have to come down to reality.

  • And I think that, if that's the case, we will be able to have a deal.

  • We certainly want it.

  • I want it.

  • NICK SCHIFRIN: But he also said that he would or is committed to going into Rafah, as he

  • has threatened.

  • And, as you said, Hamas, some half of Gaza's population, 1.2, 1.3 million people, are in

  • Rafah today, massive tent cities, the city closest to Egypt right there.

  • The Israeli Defense Forces have presented a plan to evacuate all of those tents that

  • you see, more than a million people, and then assault the city.

  • But this afternoon, U.S. officials say that they have not received any details of that

  • plan and, frankly, are skeptical that Israel would be able to execute that plan, at least

  • on an Israeli timeline.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Nick, I know you have been reporting on the unimaginable conditions on the ground

  • there in Rafah, but the humanitarian concerns extend far beyond that one city, right?

  • NICK SCHIFRIN: Up and down Gaza, absolutely.

  • And some of the focus right now is on the quantity of aid that is or is not going into

  • Gaza.

  • Today, Human Rights Watch accused Israel of not living up to its promises under the International

  • Court of Justice ruling that required Israel to actually deliver as much aid as possible

  • into Gaza.

  • We also saw an extraordinary scene right there, so many Gazans filling the beach that's on

  • the Mediterranean Sea after Jordan airdropped humanitarian aid.

  • Jordan has been airdropping aid, but clearly not designed to be in the sea, but that aid

  • is in the sea.

  • And so many people so desperate for that aid, today, the U.N. Relief and Works Agency cited

  • a report that a two-month-old baby actually died of hunger and said that one in six children

  • in Northern Gaza are -- quote -- "severely malnourished."

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, I should ask you about news out of the West Bank.

  • The Palestinian Authority prime minister resigned today.

  • What should we understand about that?

  • NICK SCHIFRIN: Yes, so the U.S. hopes that a hostage deal and a temporary pause, as the

  • U.S. calls it, would lead to a cease-fire, and that that can unlock more regional goals,

  • Gaza governance, how to reconstruct Gaza, and then the larger goal of Israel-Saudi normalization.

  • And the U.S. hopes that this resignation today is the first step in leading towards some

  • kind of deal over the future of Gaza governance.

  • So, the prime minister, Mohammad Shtayyeh, resigned.

  • And Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is expected to replace him with Mohammad Mustafa.

  • Mohammad Mustafa, there he is there, is an economist.

  • He is close to Abbas.

  • He has been the chairman of the Palestine Investment Fund.

  • But, look, the expectations are very low here.

  • Mustafa is not seen as someone who will change the Palestinian Authority in any fundamental

  • way.

  • And, of course, Israel has already rejected the Palestinian Authority playing a part in

  • Gaza.

  • This is really about U.S. credibility and U.S. and its Arab allies being able to coordinate

  • for these larger regional goals that they have.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: And also another story here in Washington, D.C., I know you have been following

  • related to all of this, on Sunday, there was a U.S. Air Force service member who, in protest

  • of the U.S. policy towards the war in Israel, lit himself on fire outside of the Israeli

  • Embassy.

  • What should we know about him and what happened?

  • NICK SCHIFRIN: His is Aaron Bushnell.

  • He was an active-duty airman.

  • According to reports, he's 25 from San Antonio, Texas.

  • The Air Force has confirmed that he died of those wounds last night.

  • And this is him introducing himself outside the embassy in Washington livestreaming on

  • Twitch, which is a social media platform.

  • He says -- quote -- "I will no longer be complicit in genocide."

  • And he called what he was about to do -- quote -- "an extreme act of protest, but compared

  • to what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers, it's not

  • extreme at all."

  • That is the end of the quote there.

  • He wrote on his LinkedIn page he wanted to be a software engineer and was taking classes

  • in an online university.

  • The Air Force, as I said, has not confirmed his name, but they have confirmed that he

  • died of his wounds.

  • Senior defense officials do not believe that he represents some kind of trend inside the

  • military.

  • But the fact is that this is an extraordinarily rare, very public protest that ended in one

  • airman's death.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Nick Schifrin, thank you, as always, for all your reporting.

  • Appreciate it.

  • NICK SCHIFRIN: Thank you.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: In the day's other headlines: Former President Trump appealed a $454 million

  • judgment in his New York civil fraud case.

  • Judge Arthur Engoron ruled Mr. Trump lied about his financials as he built his real

  • estate business.

  • The former president's lawyers contend that the judge may have made errors or exceeded

  • his jurisdiction.

  • The appeals process could take months and could temporarily halt any collection of funds

  • from Mr. Trump.

  • In Ukraine, government troops have retreated again in the east as Russian forces push forward.

  • The Ukrainians pulled back today from the village of Lastochkyne.

  • It's just outside of Avdiivka, which the Russians captured earlier this month.

  • Ukrainian officials say their soldiers face superior Russian firepower, while additional

  • U.S. aid is blocked in Congress.

  • A spokeswoman for Alexei Navalny says supporters may try to hold a farewell event in Moscow

  • this week.

  • The Russian opposition leader died earlier this month in prison.

  • Another associate claimed today that talks had been under way on a prisoner swap for

  • Navalny.

  • The U.S. State Department declined to comment.

  • Sweden cleared the final hurdle to NATO membership today, as Hungary's Parliament voted to ratify

  • its bid.

  • After 18 months of delays, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban acknowledged Sweden's

  • criticism of his right-wing government.

  • Still, he urged lawmakers to put aside any resentment.

  • VIKTOR ORBAN, Prime Minister of Hungary (through translator): There will continue to be differences

  • of opinion because Swedes and Hungarians are not the same.

  • But we look at our differences with understanding, because that is how serious nations behave.

  • The Swedish-Hungarian military cooperation and Sweden's accession to NATO will strengthen

  • Hungary's security.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Finland also applied to join NATO after Russia invaded Ukraine and won

  • the needed unanimous consent from alliance members nearly a year ago.

  • Here at home, President Biden and former President Donald Trump now plan visits to the Texas

  • border on Thursday, as the immigration issue intensifies.

  • Mr. Biden will be in Brownsville, Texas, while Mr. Trump is in Eagle Pass.

  • That's about 325 miles away.

  • Both areas have seen a surge in illegal border crossings.

  • A former FBI informant charged with inventing a bribery scheme about the president and his

  • son Hunter Biden will stay jailed for now.

  • A federal judge in California ruled today that Alexander Smirnov might flee if he's

  • released.

  • Smirnov's accusations against Hunter Biden and President Biden were at the heart of a

  • House Republican impeachment inquiry, which Democrats say has now been proven baseless.

  • The Biden administration is moving to block a proposed merger between grocery giants Kroger

  • and Albertsons.

  • The deal, valued at $24.6 billion, would be the largest supermarket merger in U.S. history.

  • The Federal Trade Commission filed suit today, saying it would eliminate competition and

  • drive up prices.

  • On Wall Street, stocks lost a little ground to start the week.

  • The Dow Jones industrial average lost 62 points to close at 39069.

  • The Nasdaq fell 20 points.

  • The S&P 500 slipped 19.

  • And the first U.S. moon lander in more than 50 years is expected to go dark tomorrow.

  • Intuitive Machines says its Odysseus craft, seen in this fish-eye view, landed sideways,

  • so it can't operate for a week, as planned.

  • Meantime, Japan says its moon lander, also resting on its side following a rough landing

  • last month, survived the weeks-long lunar night and is operating again.

  • Still to come on the "NewsHour": Tamara Keith and Amy Walter look ahead to Michigan's presidential

  • primary; an Afghan activist's memoir details her inspirational fight to educate women;

  • and artificial intelligence helps decipher ancient scrolls buried in volcanic ash.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: The Supreme Court heard arguments today in a highly consequential case navigating

  • First Amendment protections on social media.

  • Tech companies are taking on state laws, decrying conservative censorship online.

  • A decision here could fundamentally change the use of speech on the Internet.

  • The Supreme Court is wading into a digital age First Amendment battle.

  • Do social media companies have the right to decide what appears on and what's removed

  • from their own platforms?

  • That is the question at the heart of two major cases heard today by the justices.

  • A decision here could give government the power to change what millions of people see online.

  • After sites like Twitter and Facebook removed former President Donald Trump following the

  • January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, Texas and Florida passed laws restricting how these

  • platforms moderate and remove content and users from their Web sites.

  • But tech industry groups sued the states.

  • ALAN GURA, Vice President for Litigation, Institute for Free Speech: Whether it happens

  • to a conservative group or to a liberal group or to any other kind of group, OK, people

  • in America should be able to access the modern public square to express themselves.

  • It does tend to be conservative groups that are under the thumb more of some of these

  • social media sites.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Alan Gura with the Institute for Free Speech filed an amicus brief with conservative

  • activist group Moms for Liberty in support of the states.

  • ALAN GURA: Moms for Liberty had a problem.

  • The teachers union, their sort of traditional political adversary, went to Facebook and

  • put pressure on Facebook and said, look, the people who are promoting disinformation, and,

  • instead, Moms' chapters saw all kinds of post blocked, things that were very innocuous,

  • things like, are you ready to run for school board or questions about, hey, does anybody

  • know what curriculum is being used by a school district?

  • DAVID GREENE, Electronic Frontier Foundation: I think we can all agree that content moderation

  • is a process is really problematic.

  • I don't think the right solution to that is to give the government the ability to impose

  • its own editorial viewpoints on private actors.

  • I think that's a dangerous power to hand the government.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: David Greene is with the Electronic Frontier Foundation and filed a brief opposing

  • the states.

  • DAVID GREENE: Social media sites have a First Amendment right to curate and edit their sites

  • according to their own curatorial and editorial philosophies and policies.

  • That is a right that others in their position have, whether they be art curators or parade

  • organizers.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: But are tech companies publishers.

  • Gura and the states don't think so.

  • ALAN GURA: Whose speech is it?

  • And nobody thinks that your speech is the company's speeches.

  • Obviously, your speech, if I pick up the phone and talk to you today, it won't be AT&T's

  • speech, and AT&T can't unplug me because they don't like my politics.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: That back-and-forth is what the justices themselves navigated today.

  • Marcia Coyle was in the courtroom and joins us now.

  • Marcia, it's great to see you.

  • MARCIA COYLE: Good to see you.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: These are big issues here, free speech and content moderation and social media

  • platforms.

  • How did the justices seem to be navigating and examining these issues today?

  • MARCIA COYLE: Well, I think it's a difficult one.

  • Just as you said, for many levels, they're having trouble.

  • And -- but they asked good questions.

  • Most of the arguments focused on, as one of your speakers just said, whether social media

  • platforms fall into a category of newspaper publishers, where they can pretty much determine

  • how they use the content they have, or are they more like common carriers, such as a

  • telegraph or anything that carries a message from point A to B, but doesn't do anything

  • else?

  • So they also struggled with language.

  • Justice Alito asked at one point, well, what is content moderation?

  • Is it just another way of saying censorship?

  • And there were other words, too, that created problems.

  • So this is a difficult case for them on more levels than just determining which category

  • to put social media platforms into.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: I mean, the concerns around censorship online have long been more of a conservative

  • issue.

  • Did we hear questions from the conservative justices that seemed to align with that view

  • or to challenge it?

  • MARCIA COYLE: No, not at all.

  • And it seemed as though, as they struggled with the categories of newspapers versus common

  • carriers, that they weren't focused at all on politics or ideology.

  • This is clearly an attempt to become very familiar with what social media does, what

  • these platforms do.

  • And that's one of the problems that they're having in the case.

  • They didn't know how broadly these laws sweep.

  • Justice Barrett, for example, pointed out, well, some say these laws could cover Venmo,

  • Uber, e-mail.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Not just limited to social media platforms.

  • MARCIA COYLE: Exactly, e-mail, direct messaging.

  • And they don't know.

  • In fact, as they asked the lawyers, they said, well, they might -- it might cover them.

  • And why don't they know?

  • Because the way the case came to the Supreme Court, there was no trial below on the merits

  • to flesh all this out through discovery.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Well, I want to ask you about the arguments on both sides of the debate

  • here.

  • And we did speak earlier with Jameel Jaffer of The Knight Institute, who argues that actually

  • both sides of the debate have some merit to their arguments.

  • Take a listen.

  • JAMEEL JAFFER, Knight First Amendment Institute: Everybody involved in it claims to be a champion

  • of free speech and the First Amendment.

  • You have the social media platforms claiming that they are speakers and editors here and

  • that these laws are a form of censorship of their First Amendment-protected activity.

  • And on the other side, then you have the states arguing that these laws are intended to protect

  • the free speech rights of social media platforms' users.

  • The truth is that everybody has a point.

  • You need to find a way of accounting for all of the First Amendment interests in play here.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Marcia, for an issue as core as free speech, we're talking about the First

  • Amendment here, and as broad and influential as these social media platforms, what are

  • the implications of a decision like this?

  • MARCIA COYLE: Well, it depends on who wins and who loses.

  • If the platforms lose, they claim that they will have to put all kind of speech on their

  • platforms, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

  • And their desire, their rules that they have to try to get a handle on hate speech, on

  • bullying, they will have to also put up pro-bullying and pro-hate speech, that they just will not

  • be able to exercise the editorial discretion they have.

  • On the other hand, the states don't think that there's going to be a parade of horribles,

  • that there are other ways to deal with that kind of bad speech.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: So does all of this say to you that the justices are more likely to try to

  • keep this as narrow as possible?

  • MARCIA COYLE: Yes, it does.

  • In fact, I think, because they don't know how broadly the law sweeps, they did talk

  • -- I will say, though, that it seemed to me they were more inclined to view platforms

  • as closer to newspapers and publishers than to common carriers.

  • But because they don't know how broad the law sweeps, they did talk about keeping injunctions

  • that are in place right now that temporarily keep the laws on hold, but sending the cases

  • back to the lower court in order to flesh out a lot of these issues.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: We should mention too this is one of a handful of cases the justices are

  • considering about social media.

  • Precedent here is hard, right?

  • A lot of it predates the Internet era.

  • What should we understand about why the justices are taking up these cases and how they're

  • viewing them?

  • MARCIA COYLE: Amna, I think this is just the inevitability of how things have changed and

  • there are challenges and they come to the court.

  • So I'm not surprised that they're getting more and more into this and having more and

  • more cases come to them.

  • Just this term, not only do we have the two cases from Florida and Texas, but there are

  • two additional cases that they already heard arguments in that really involve public officials

  • and how they use their Web sites and whether they can block commenters on their Web sites.

  • So, I think we're going to see these cases come in a variety of situations.

  • And it's a new world for the justices.

  • For many of them, it's a new world.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: A lot to make sense of at the Supreme Court.

  • We're so glad you're here to help us do it all

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Marcia Coyle, thank you so much.

  • Great to see you.

  • MARCIA COYLE: My pleasure, Amna.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: There's some relief for the 20-million-plus people in the U.S. who have

  • food allergies, many of whom face severe dangers.

  • A new study in "The New England Journal of Medicine" reports that the drug known as Xolair

  • allows people to tolerate higher doses of allergenic foods before developing a reaction

  • after an accidental exposure.

  • The FDA earlier this month expanded approval of Xolair to include treatment for anyone

  • 1 year or older.

  • We're joined now by the study's principal investigator, Dr. Robert Wood of the Johns

  • Hopkins Children's Center.

  • Thanks so much for being with us.

  • And we should say that there is no cure for food allergies, but how much of a game changer

  • is this, especially for children?

  • DR.

  • ROBERT WOOD, Johns Hopkins Children's Center: Yes.

  • We have gone from essentially having no treatment for food allergy, literally just telling people

  • to avoid what you're allergic to and carry your emergency medicines if you have an accidental

  • exposure.

  • So going from there to here is really an enormous change for the world of food allergy.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And for people with severe food allergies, there's so much fear and anxiety.

  • I know you say you have teenage patients who've never been to a restaurant because their families

  • are concerned about exposure.

  • They don't take trips on airplanes for the same reason.

  • How might this improve quality of life for people?

  • DR.

  • ROBERT WOOD: Yes, that's really one of the big issues.

  • Reactions happen.

  • They can be really dangerous, but a lot of the burden of having a food allergy does relate

  • to that day-to-day fear of, is this the day that he or she is going to have that accidental

  • exposure at school, and is this the day they're going to die?

  • Now, those things are not that common, but the anxiety that people live with is very

  • real and really a daily burden.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: How does Xolair work for people with severe food allergies?

  • DR.

  • ROBERT WOOD: What it's basically doing is blocking the antibodies that our immune systems

  • make if you're going to develop an allergy.

  • And that's called an IgE antibody, and Xolair is called anti-IgE.

  • So it literally acts to bind, to sort of mop up all the IgE in your system so that you're

  • going to be less prone to have a reaction, especially with a small exposure.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Is this a lifelong commitment for people who choose this treatment?

  • And I ask the question, one, because of the cost.

  • The list price is as high as $5,000 a month for adults, typically lower based on insurance,

  • obviously.

  • And it's not a really easy drug to take.

  • It's taken by injection every two to four weeks, which might be tough for children who

  • don't like getting shots.

  • DR.

  • ROBERT WOOD: Yes, it's not perfect, but the benefits for those people who really need

  • it will certainly outweigh the risks.

  • Lifetime or not, it is a medicine that is only going to work while you're on it.

  • So, once you stop the medicine, it will wear off, but people don't necessarily need to

  • be on it for life.

  • Some may choose -- and we have had a lot of conversations with patients saying, I'm doing

  • OK right now, but the day I leave for college, I want to be on this medicine because so much

  • of my food will be less under my control.

  • They may take it for those four years.

  • They may take it for 10.

  • There may be far better treatments in 10 or 15 years.

  • So it's not a lifetime commitment, by any means.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: How safe is it?

  • DR.

  • ROBERT WOOD: It's very safe.

  • And one of the neat things about this drug is that it's been approved now for 21 years

  • to treat asthma.

  • So, a lot of the safety as we face with any drug has been sorted out over those 21 years.

  • There's a warning on the drug that it could cause an allergic reaction.

  • Some people are actually allergic to the drug itself, but that's a fairly unusual circumstance

  • and we think can be managed just by careful observation.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And, Dr. Wood, lastly, food allergies have been increasing in prevalence

  • over the last 20 years.

  • Do we know exactly why?

  • DR.

  • ROBERT WOOD: We do not know exactly why.

  • We have a lot of theories.

  • A lot of them relate back to this thing called the hygiene theory, saying we live in too

  • clean an environment.

  • But there are clearly many factors that go into this that may relate to our diet, other

  • things in our environment.

  • And we're still quite a ways away from really understanding this quite incredible rise in

  • the prevalence of food allergy.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Dr. Robert Wood with the Johns Hopkins Children's Center, thanks so much

  • for your time this evening.

  • DR.

  • ROBERT WOOD: You're welcome.

  • Thanks.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: A campaign for Michigan voters to boycott President Biden in Tuesday's primary

  • has picked up momentum.

  • Some Muslim and Arab Americans are hoping to send a clear message to the president after

  • months of frustration, they say, with the administration's handling of the war in Gaza.

  • In Michigan, a winter of political discontent.

  • PROTESTERS: Free, free Palestine!

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Ahead of that state's presidential primary, President Biden's handling of the

  • Israel-Hamas war is top of mind for many Democratic voters.

  • Now some Democratic activists and local leaders are organizing a protest vote against the

  • president, encouraging voters to tick uncommitted on their ballots.

  • MOHAMMAD ALAM, National Chair, American Muslim Political Action Committee: Joe Biden failed

  • himself.

  • Joe Biden failed the humanity.

  • So Muslim American community, our message, yes, indeed, February 27 in Michigan, we are

  • voting uncommitted.

  • MAHMOUDA CHOWDHURI, Michigan Resident: We need to show President Biden and all the other

  • candidates that we support Palestine.

  • We don't support our U.S. tax dollars going towards Israel to ethnically cleanse Palestine.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: With more than 200,000 Muslim and Arab American voters in Michigan, their

  • message remains clear.

  • Without them, there's no winning the state.

  • Over the weekend, Democratic leaders like Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer urged voters

  • to think about what a protest vote might yield.

  • GOV.

  • GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): It's important not to lose sight of the fact that any vote that's

  • not cast for Joe Biden supports a second Trump term.

  • I am encouraging people to cast an affirmative vote for President Biden.

  • I understand the pain that people are feeling and I will continue to work to build bridges

  • with folks in all of these communities.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: As a Biden-Trump rematch becomes more of a reality after a 20-point victory

  • for Mr. Trump in South Carolina...

  • DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate:

  • That is really something.

  • This was a little sooner that we anticipated.

  • (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

  • DONALD TRUMP: It was an even bigger win than we anticipated.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: ... it hasn't deterred South Carolina's former Governor Nikki Haley from

  • forging ahead to Michigan.

  • NIKKI HALEY (R), Presidential Candidate: I said earlier this week that, no matter what

  • happens in South Carolina, I would continue to run for president.

  • (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

  • NIKKI HALEY: I'm a woman of my word.

  • (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Haley's still trying to carve out a lane of her own.

  • NIKKI HALEY: It is why we must have a new generational leader.

  • And you're not going to get peace if you're like Joe Biden putting your head in the sand

  • or if you're like Donald Trump, where he's saying don't pay attention to the rest of

  • the world, just live in our own little bubble.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And while some Haley supporters in Michigan say they're hopeful...

  • JESSICA MCATEE, Michigan Voter: I really hope that more voters come out and really support

  • her, because I think that she really represents the new way that we need to go, instead of

  • just going back to what we did with Trump.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: ... they're not necessarily optimistic.

  • SCOTT TOWNSEND, Michigan Voter: So I'm happy to hear what she has to say, but I think,

  • from a numbers perspective, very basic straw poll, for myself, it doesn't seem like the

  • support is there.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: For the political stakes of South Carolina, Michigan and beyond, we turn

  • to our Politics Monday team.

  • That's Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report With Amy Walter and Tamara Keith of NPR.

  • So, lots to discuss.

  • I'm very glad you both are here.

  • Let's start with this protest vote against President Biden in Michigan.

  • The organizers say it's not an anti-Biden effort.

  • They say it's a protest vote on humanitarian grounds.

  • How do you see this playing out politically?

  • AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: This is going to be very interesting as we go forward,

  • because in Michigan we know that this group in particular is aiming to get at least 10,000

  • people to vote uncommitted.

  • And 10,000, by the way, is the margin by which Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton in 2016,

  • in what was a very big surprise on election night.

  • So it is both showing their displeasure with what is happening in Gaza, but also saying,

  • do not ignore us or our concerns, and don't take us for granted.

  • In fact, when I was talking to some folks over the weekend in Michigan, they said, a

  • lot of what's happening in Michigan with this frustration has been building for a lot longer

  • than just the time of the war in Gaza, that -- the sense that these communities have been

  • taken for granted by Democrats, they aren't doing the sort of caring and watering and

  • feeding of them that they should do.

  • And it is also about the fact that in these states, whether it is -- I know we're going

  • to talk about South Carolina a minute -- whether it's losing voters to, in South Carolina,

  • those who didn't vote for Trump, but voted for Haley, or getting these uncommitted voters,

  • these are the kinds of margins that can determine whether you win or lose.

  • And it is for Biden a group of voters that nationally are worrisome in terms of keeping

  • into his coalition, particularly voters of color and younger voters.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Tam, how worried is the Biden campaign about this?

  • I mean, what are they telling you?

  • TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: They're saying they're going to keep fighting for

  • these voters, that they are not going to give up on their votes.

  • And they also do point to numbers that say that 10,000 is really unambitious.

  • It is highly likely that more than 10,000 people will vote uncommitted, because go back

  • cycle after cycle after cycle, and way more than 10,000, something like 20,000 people

  • have voted uncommitted going back years and years and years.

  • However, the president does have a problem.

  • The White House and the Biden campaign acknowledge that there's a group of voters, a significant

  • group of voters that is really upset.

  • And the president is in a difficult position because he has made a calculation based on

  • global alliances and history and his experience and all of these other things related to Israel.

  • He held Netanyahu close initially.

  • Literally, I watched him hug him on the tarmac in Tel Aviv right after October 7.

  • And that worked very well for President Biden with Jewish voters, who are also a very important

  • constituency.

  • And also Biden believed it was the right move politically, hug him close in public, privately

  • push for better policy outcomes.

  • Well, President Biden really badly wants a cease-fire or -- they won't use that term,

  • but a significant pause.

  • They want the hostages back.

  • They need this situation to move to a better place for humanitarian reasons, for policy

  • reasons, but also for political reasons, because it is a big, gaping sore for President Biden

  • with key voters, younger voters and voters of color, and particularly Muslim American

  • voters.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Let's talk about South Carolina, because Nikki Haley finished 20 points behind

  • Donald Trump.

  • As we saw in the piece, she's still vowing to stay in the race.

  • Her campaign says she raised $1 million the day after the loss, but she, as we all know,

  • lost the financial backing of that super PAC that's backed by the Koch brothers, that powerful

  • donor network.

  • What is her endgame?

  • What's her strategy moving forward?

  • AMY WALTER: I know.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Just amass as many delegates and see what happens?

  • AMY WALTER: Yes, that seems to be part of it.

  • And, also, when you talk to folks who are either involved or watching from the periphery,

  • there is a sense that she's just enjoying herself, enjoying this moment.

  • She is getting national attention.

  • To me, the biggest question going forward is whether she, at the end, will endorse Donald

  • Trump, whether what we're seeing right now is actually a movement to take away a constituency

  • from Donald Trump.

  • If she's going to say, I'm here to tell these voters, the ones who showed up for me in November,

  • do not go and rally behind Donald Trump, that would be incredibly significant.

  • What we also know, much like we do in Michigan, is the kinds of people who are showing up

  • for Nikki Haley are the kinds of voters that Republicans have been bleeding in the era

  • of Trump, pretty significantly, white college-educated suburban voters.

  • Now, we don't know that all of these voters who voted for Nikki Haley were ever thinking

  • about voting for Trump.

  • Maybe they voted for Biden last time around.

  • But, again, that's why Michigan and South Carolina are really fascinating, because they

  • both highlight the challenges that these two men have in what we know will be a very, very

  • close contest in the fall of keeping every member of their coalition their team.

  • They can't afford for them to defect, or stay home, or vote third party.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And, Tam, on that point, going back and looking at my notes from this election

  • cycle, 49 percent of Republican caucus-goers didn't support Donald Trump in Iowa, 45 percent

  • of New Hampshire Republican primary voters didn't vote for him, and then you have 40

  • percent of Republican voters in South Carolina who supported Nikki Haley.

  • What does that say about Donald Trump's weaknesses as a candidate?

  • TAMARA KEITH: Well, Nikki Haley would tell you it says a lot about Donald Trump's weaknesses

  • as a candidate.

  • And those weaknesses are real and they are there.

  • But the issue for Republican voters and for the Republican primary is, there isn't an

  • alternative that is more popular than former President Trump.

  • So, Nikki Haley is not going to win the primary.

  • It's just not going to happen.

  • And, yes, there are very real concerns among Republicans about what happens in the general

  • election.

  • It's a big part of Nikki Haley's stump speech that Biden polls better against Trump than

  • he does against her.

  • But the reality is that, once former President Trump really is the nominee, there will be

  • a lot of consolidation.

  • Those 40 percent, some large share of them are Republican voters who are going to return

  • home.

  • Some share of them are not.

  • Some of them are Democrats voting in open primaries.

  • And some of them are never-Trump Republicans who are trying to find a home.

  • And it's not clear whether the Biden campaign, which has their eyes on them, will be able

  • to persuade them to vote for him, or whether they will stay home or vote for Mike Pence

  • or Mickey Mouse.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Well, in the meantime, Donald Trump wants a leadership change at the Republican

  • National Committee in an effort to install loyalists, including potentially his daughter-in-law.

  • Ronna McDaniel, the current chair, says she's stepping down effective March 8.

  • This will be after a Super Tuesday.

  • What's the significance of this, Amy?

  • AMY WALTER: We have been talking about this now for so long, but the party is Donald Trump

  • and Donald Trump is the party, and this is just the latest example of this.

  • It's not just that it is his daughter-in-law taking over, but it's loyalists with his campaign

  • who will also be installed over at the RNC.

  • We're seeing at the state party level loyalists to Donald Trump who are running the party.

  • In some cases, there's friction between those loyalists and others in the party that has

  • led to complete paralysis in the state -- in a like Michigan for example.

  • But we also, I think, can look at this as a reality check to what a Trump 2.0 presidency

  • would look like, which is, whether it is at the RNC or it will be in government positions

  • or at the White House, only those who are the most loyal to Donald Trump will get those

  • positions.

  • Remember, back in 2016 and when he was in the White House in 2017, he kind of was working

  • with the establishment.

  • It's also true that the establishment now is more Trumpy than ever when you look at

  • what Congress looks like.

  • The folks who have come in since Trump's election in 2017 look a lot more like him than those

  • -- quote, unquote -- "traditional Republicans" who were around before he was elected.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And McDaniel put out a statement, part of which reads: "The RNC has historically

  • undergone change once we have a nominee, and it has always been my intention to honor that

  • tradition."

  • Donald Trump is trying to make these changes before he is the nominee.

  • TAMARA KEITH: Well, yes, but he also has already stacked the deck in a way that it's basically

  • inevitable that he will be the nominee.

  • He will go into California, he will go into Michigan, a bunch of these states that are

  • coming up, and he will get basically all the delegates, if not all of the delegates, and

  • the math is just completely and totally in his favor, in part because of his sway over

  • various state parties.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And it was designed that way.

  • TAMARA KEITH: And it was by design.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: Yes.

  • Tamara Keith and Amy Walter, thanks so much.

  • TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome.

  • AMY WALTER: You're welcome.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: When the Taliban roared back to power in Afghanistan in 2021, education activist

  • Pashtana Durrani, then just 24 years old, already had some 7,000 girls enrolled in her

  • organization called LEARN Afghanistan.

  • The schools were shuttered.

  • Pashtana was forced to flee.

  • And she's now living in exile here in the U.S., still working to educate girls in secret

  • back home.

  • I spoke with Pashtana earlier today about her remarkable life story told in her new

  • book, "Last to Eat, Last to Learn."

  • And I began by asking her about the title.

  • PASHTANA DURRANI, Author, "Last to Eat, Last to Learn: My Life in Afghanistan Fighting

  • to Educate Women": It's basically about the daughters or the first daughters who are always

  • choosing the last ones to be the ones who eat the last because they have to do all the

  • chores.

  • They have to pick up after everyone and they have to take care of everyone.

  • And then the same methodology with me and my co-author, we thought about it, and we

  • were like, they're also chosen the last ones to actually learn, because they have to take

  • care of everyone before they choose themselves to learn.

  • So it's basically a dedication to all of them, especially girls, young girls, because they're

  • chosen last to do everything.

  • So it's last to eat, last to learn.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: This is your message to all of them out there in Afghanistan.

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: Yes.

  • Yes.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: But that wasn't how you were raised.

  • Your father made sure you were raised very differently.

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: Yes.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Why?

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: I mean, because that's, again, the thing.

  • I was -- the day I was born, my dad was like, oh, no, this is going to be my son.

  • So I had all the privilege as a son.

  • If I was raised as an elder daughter, I would have definitely been one of those girls.

  • So, for me, it was very different.

  • But, then again, I witnessed all of that throughout my life.

  • And, consciously, I had to make that choice to make sure that this is talked about.

  • But, personally, I was raised in a very privileged life, and I was raised very nicely, and I

  • talked over everyone, and I was pretty loud, yes.

  • I was a very spoiled kid, yes, definitely.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Even though you spent much of your life growing up in a refugee camp in

  • Pakistan, you made the decision to go back to Afghanistan.

  • Your father had been going back and forth.

  • And you started an organization so that other girls could learn, the same way you did.

  • Tell me about that organization and why that was important.

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: When I was in high school, that was the first time I realized that we

  • are in a refugee camp.

  • Like, this is not the country that we were supposed to be in, you know?

  • And the discrimination came with it and everything came with it.

  • And we were seen differently, wearing a scarf, or the way my father used to dress up in a

  • turban or something.

  • That was all seen differently.

  • And then, most importantly, it was probably me following him wanting to go back to Afghanistan.

  • But, at that point, I was so crazily in love with Afghanistan, I was like, I need to go

  • back.

  • Like, I want to go back.

  • Then, at the same time, when I ended up in Afghanistan, the first thing I saw was like,

  • even in our own country, we didn't have access to the rights that we are entitled to, that

  • the Constitution entitled us to.

  • So, for me, the most important thing was with that group that I resonated most with was

  • those young girls, my own cousins.

  • And we say in Pashto or in Islam that charity begins at home.

  • So we had to start at home with all the efforts.

  • And that's how LEARN came into being, because I really wanted my cousins to go to school.

  • I wanted my family members to end up accessing the same education that I had or the people

  • in refugee camp had.

  • So that's why.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: And when the Taliban reclaimed power in 2021, you had to shut down your schools.

  • They banned most girls from going to school after a certain grade.

  • You had to flee because you yourself were targeted.

  • But you're still running the organization from afar.

  • How?

  • How many girls are you still able to teach and how are they able to study?

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: Oh, it's an effort.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: It's an effort.

  • I -- in the middle of the night, we're sometimes talking to the students.

  • Sometimes, we have to do meetings at 3:00 a.m. even today.

  • But at the same time, I think it's so rewarding.

  • It's so rewarding.

  • We do a lot of our work in person.

  • More than 300 girls go to school every day, walk to school every day.

  • So that's a big thing.

  • More than 30 teachers every day teach in person.

  • So that's a big deal for me.

  • And then more than 40 people are employed right now who are doing something amazing

  • like this, which is banned in Afghanistan, but whatever.

  • But...

  • AMNA NAWAZ: But it is banned.

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: Yes.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: I mean, are you worried for their safety?

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: Most of the time, yes.

  • I get extremely worried and paranoid sometimes, and I cannot sleep.

  • But then, other times, like, I just call them and I talk to them, and they have become part

  • of the family.

  • But then, at the same time, it's important for me because, in the next 10 years, there

  • might be not a person, or even if I am, might not be this young to be able to do everything.

  • So I would want more girls to get that empowerment and have that sort of access to opportunities

  • and become the people that they are.

  • My goal is, by the end of like 2030, we have more than 3,400 leaders who are all young

  • girls, who are all in those provinces, and they lead a movement that could hopefully

  • rebuild Afghanistan from where it has been destroyed.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: What about your goals for yourself?

  • And then we should disclose here, I was actually part of the team that did help you to evacuate.

  • It took months to get you out of Afghanistan.

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: Yes.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: I met you at the airport in Boston when you arrived, help you get settled at

  • Wellesley College, where you have built a life.

  • You have graduated.

  • You're getting your master's degree from Harvard.

  • You continue your work.

  • I mean, what does the future hold for you?

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: Immediately, I want to get graduated from Harvard immediately.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: But also, at the same time, I want to build 34 schools by the end of 2025,

  • which is a personal goal.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: OK.

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: Big personal.

  • I'm also working on this nonprofit incubator that is supposed to sustain humanitarian efforts

  • and educational efforts in conflict zones in all different regions of the world, especially

  • Middle East and Central Asia and South Asia.

  • So, I have been working with that, at Wellesley on that, especially focusing on women.

  • And then, hopefully, I will continue doing what I do.

  • And I love what I do, so yes.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: What do you think your father, who I know you lost a few years ago, what

  • do you think he would say if he could see you now?

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: I think he would be extremely proud.

  • Like, I can say that now confidently.

  • But then, at the same time, I'm like, I hope -- I wish he could see it, and I hope he could

  • see it now.

  • But he definitely would be proud, yes.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: The author is Pashtana Durrani.

  • The book is "Last to Eat, Last to Learn."

  • Pashtana, always a pleasure to see you.

  • Thank you for being here.

  • PASHTANA DURRANI: Thank you for having me.

  • Thank you.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And we will be back shortly to take a look at how researchers are using

  • A.I. to decipher previously unreadable ancient scrolls.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: But, first, take a moment to hear from your local PBS station.

  • It's a chance to offer your support, which helps keep programs like ours on the air.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: For those of you staying with us, we hear from the man who to the world

  • is known simply as Ringo.

  • Former Beatles drummer Ringo Starr is on tour after putting out a new recording.

  • Jeffrey Brown spoke with him last fall for our arts and culture series, Canvas.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: He's youthful and fit, as recognizable as when the Beatles first took the world by

  • storm nearly 60 years ago, performing with his own All-Starr Band, which he's led in

  • various forms since 1989 and now releasing a new E.P.

  • titled "Rewind Forward."

  • For Ringo Starr the music has always been there.

  • RINGO STARR, Musician: That's what I do?

  • That's why I had a dream of 13 to be a drummer, and I hit that drum, and I knew immediately

  • I wanted to be a drummer.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: What did you hear?

  • I mean, what happened?

  • RINGO STARR: I don't know.

  • It's like magic.

  • Oh, yes, I just love music.

  • I love -- and I wanted to play.

  • And there's not a lot of point being the drummer if you have no one else.

  • What would you do, just me and the drums?

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • RINGO STARR: Yes, it doesn't work.

  • You need the others.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: The others would become John Lennon, Paul McCartney and George Harrison,

  • together, The Beatles, the most, beloved important and influential band in rock 'n' roll history.

  • By his mid-20s, Ringo was world-famous, giving the Beatles a backbeat and a whole lot of

  • personality.

  • But he started life as Richard Starkey, a sickly child in and out of hospitals, a poor

  • kid trying to make his way in working-class Liverpool, England.

  • We talked about it recently at the Sunset Marquis, a famed Hollywood hotel, complete

  • with its own NightBird recording studio in the basement.

  • RINGO STARR: I was always working on the railways, on the boats, in the factory forever.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: What was that young boy's, your hopes and dreams at that time?

  • And what could you imagine?

  • RINGO STARR: Well, it all felt like it was something I was doing until I could do what

  • I wanted to do, which was play.

  • And the first band I was in was a factory band.

  • We used to play at the -- in the lunch hour to the men.

  • And they'd all be telling us to leave, in not quite a nice way.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • JEFFREY BROWN: He eventually joined Rory Storm and the Hurricanes, one of the top bands in

  • Liverpool, then got to know another up-and-coming group with a different drummer at the time,

  • The Beatles, up close when both bands were booked into the same Hamburg, Germany, club.

  • RINGO STARR: It was 12 hours at the weekend between two bands, so you get to know your

  • own band.

  • But we would try and top them.

  • They would try and top us.

  • And the top wasn't very high then, but we were still -- we want the crowd, and they

  • want the crowd.

  • So it was a great learning space.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: The Beatles asked Ringo to join them, and the rest, of course, is history.

  • And what history, especially if you were on the inside.

  • In the hotel's photo gallery, Ringo noticed a 1964 shot of the group with Muhammad Ali,

  • then still Cassius Clay.

  • RINGO STARR: This was, like, early and first time in America.

  • Like, when we flew over New York, I felt New York saying, come on down.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: Yes.

  • RINGO STARR: And we were finally in America, the land of all our music that we loved.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: Because you had listened to American music, I know, as a kid.

  • RINGO STARR: Yes.

  • Yes.

  • And I come from a port where every other house had someone who was in the merchant navy.

  • And they would bring records over.

  • And so we heard a lot of sort of country and blues and stuff that England wasn't getting

  • first.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: Yes.

  • And are the personalities coming out?

  • RINGO STARR: Yes, I think so.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • RINGO STARR: What?

  • JEFFREY BROWN: Is that you?

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • RINGO STARR: Yes.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: They would have nearly eight years together, countless hit songs, epic

  • changing albums.

  • RINGO STARR: Someone's got hold of me finger.

  • JOHN LENNON, Musician: Are you trying to attract attention again?

  • JEFFREY BROWN: Fun-filled films.

  • Everyone knew The Beatles, the music and the individuals.

  • For Ringo, who grew up an only child, it was as personal as could be.

  • RINGO STARR: Got three brothers, and we were very close.

  • And besides the touring, when -- we always shared a room.

  • We only ever got two rooms.

  • It was important, and I think part of our makeup, that we stayed together and closeness,

  • and we really got to know each other and knew where we're coming from.

  • And that certainly happened.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: Ringo, behind his drum kit, sang several songs written by the others,

  • including this one.

  • (MUSIC)

  • JEFFREY BROWN: And though far overshadowed by his songwriting partners, he did write

  • a few himself.

  • That helped later in his post-Beatles career.

  • RINGO STARR: The interesting thing that not a lot of people know is that, when I'd first

  • present my songs, the rest of the band would be rolling on the floor laughing, because

  • I'd really just rewritten some other song.

  • It wasn't my song at all.

  • I just, like, reworded it.

  • And they would say, yes, sure.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • RINGO STARR: But that's how I started.

  • I got out of that and started making my own moves.

  • But George was really helpful.

  • He produced the first couple of singles that I put out.

  • And God bless him.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: The Beatles' end in 1970 is much discussed, much debated.

  • Peter Jackson's 2021 documentary series "The Beatles Get Back" focused on a key final period.

  • Most important to Ringo, who says he loved the film, capturing their closeness, as well

  • as the tensions.

  • RINGO STARR: Peter Jackson was going to do it.

  • We would hook up in L.A. several times.

  • And we'd find parts.

  • And I kept telling him, we were laughing.

  • We were brothers.

  • We had arguments.

  • We had fun.

  • And we're playing with each other.

  • And I have -- it's not all that dark.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: And you wanted that to come through.

  • RINGO STARR: And I want it to come through, like it's a real band.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: After the breakup, each Beatle went solo.

  • Ringo, now his own front man, had a string of hits, including "It Don't Come Easy."

  • In fact, he says it didn't.

  • You have also talked about some of the difficulties there, including struggles.

  • RINGO STARR: Well, the first -- when it was first split up, I sat in the garden, wondering

  • what to do.

  • It was like, that's it now.

  • What -- you're so used to that job.

  • And we worked a lot.

  • But then, suddenly, well, it's over.

  • And it's really over.

  • Yes, I had a moment of, like, reflection.

  • And I started to play with other artists.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: And that's what he's continued to do, along with a few other things, including

  • acting.

  • He met his wife, Barbara Bach, while working together on the 1981 movie "Caveman."

  • RINGO STARR: This new train schedule is tommyrot, balderdash, and cuckoo.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: And he played Mr. Conductor on the children's series "Shining Time Station."

  • He marks his birthday every year with a peace and love celebration.

  • That, he says, is his one birthday wish.

  • And, most of all, the music endures.

  • RINGO STARR: Our audiences are bigger than they were and younger than they were.

  • It's really weird, far out.

  • And we will see.

  • There's no guarantee, but we're doing it with our heart a blazing.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: And we started talking about that young boy back in Liverpool.

  • RINGO STARR: It's far out, isn't it?

  • JEFFREY BROWN: And here -- it is, but here you are.

  • RINGO STARR: I live in L.A. You know how far out that is, you know?

  • It's weird.

  • JEFFREY BROWN: It's weird, but you're still going.

  • RINGO STARR: I'm still going, yes.

  • (LAUGHTER)

  • JEFFREY BROWN: For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Jeffrey Brown in Los Angeles.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: Ancient scrolls that were buried in volcanic ash during the eruption of Mount

  • Vesuvius are now being deciphered 2,000 years later thanks in part to artificial intelligence.

  • Martin Stew of Independent Television News reports from Oxfordshire, England, on the

  • scientific effort of researchers from around the world.

  • MARTIN STEW: Buried under the volcanic ash from Vesuvius, Herculaneum, like Pompeii,

  • is a perfectly preserved time capsule of Roman life.

  • Some of its secrets were burnt to a crisp, scorched scrolls indecipherable, until now.

  • Unraveling the hidden history of these 2,000-year-old scrolls has required 21st century technology

  • here, a Wembley Stadium-sized synchrotron called Diamond Light Source which fires beams

  • of light 10 billion times brighter than the sun.

  • ADRIAN MANCUSO, Director of Physical Sciences, Diamond Light Source: We have a bright beam

  • of X-rays that comes out of the Diamond synchrotron.

  • They travel downstream and hit a sample.

  • That makes a picture.

  • MARTIN STEW: The team started by scanning loose fragments.

  • ADRIAN MANCUSO: So, the scroll looks like something you might put on your barbecue,

  • it's so light and burnt.

  • But the ink and the papyrus are almost made out of the same stuff.

  • So you need a bright, very brilliant X-ray beam to be able to tell the difference.

  • MARTIN STEW: So it's like an extreme C.T.

  • scan?

  • ADRIAN MANCUSO: It is like a C.T.

  • scan off on a very, very, very other level.

  • MARTIN STEW: Because the scrolls are too fragile to physically unroll, the unwrapping was done

  • digitally.

  • Scientists then set about decoding ink patterns using readings they'd taken from the fragments

  • as a kind of cipher.

  • To process so many images, teams around the world joined in, running A.I.-powered programs.

  • And Youssef was the first person to reveal a word: purple.

  • YOUSSEF NADER, Vesuvius Challenge Winner: I was really excited and just, like, zooming

  • around the apartment while waiting for the experiments to finish.

  • And, yes, it felt really, really amazing to actually be one of the first people to actually

  • do this.

  • MARTIN STEW: So far, only a tiny portion of the scrolls have been deciphered.

  • It's believed they belong to a Roman statesman, potentially Julius Caesar's father-in-law.

  • BRENT SEALES, University of Kentucky: We as humans are going to reconnect with a part

  • of our history that's incredibly difficult to connect to.

  • And what I would like the scrolls to reveal is something surprising or even controversial

  • that we don't already know about that period.

  • MARTIN STEW: This project has taken decades, but has proven futuristic technology can give

  • us a glimpse of our forgotten past.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And, as always, there is more online, including a look at how the costs

  • of clinical trials disproportionately affects low-income communities.

  • AMNA NAWAZ: And join us again here tomorrow night, when we will hear from Michigan's Democratic

  • Party chair, as voters head to the polls for the state's presidential primaries.

  • And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.

  • I'm Amna Nawaz.

  • GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

  • Thanks for spending part of your evening with us.

AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening. I'm Amna Nawaz.

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PBS NewsHour full episode, Feb. 26, 2024

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    林宜悉 發佈於 2024 年 03 月 01 日
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