Okay, since we are like a YouTube channel, two of the hottest, many ball are we not hot eso?

好吧，因為我們是像一個YouTube頻道，兩個最熱的，許多球是我們不熱埃索？

Last year we made a video called the Onley Anti aging cream Networks, according to Science, and were immediately shown a video by the incredible lab muffin.

去年我們做了一個視頻，叫安利抗衰老霜網絡，根據科學，並立即由不可思議的實驗室鬆餅展示了一個視頻。

That explains some of the things that we got wrong about the complexity of beauty products.

這解釋了我們對美容產品複雜性的一些誤解。

So we decided to fly during a global pandemic to Australia, to visit lab muffin because famously you tours can't get or spread Cove it true.

是以，我們決定在全球大流行期間飛到澳洲，參觀實驗室鬆餅，因為著名的你旅遊不能得到或傳播科夫它的真實。

I guess we'll just stay home and zoom with her because that's actually really easy.

我想我們就呆在家裡和她一起變焦，因為這其實很容易。

And everyone should be doing that.

而每個人都應該這樣做。

It's cheaper.

它的價格更便宜。

Michelle.

米歇爾

Okay, Love Muffin.

好吧，愛瑪芬。

Hi, Michelle.

嗨，米歇爾

Can you give us a background on who you are?

你能告訴我們你是誰的背景嗎？

I have a PhD in chemistry, and I've got a background in science education.

我是化學博士，我有科學教育的背景。

I've been making videos and blogging about the science behind beauty products since 2011, and I do it so hopefully people who don't have a background in science understand.

從2011年開始，我就一直在做視頻和博客，介紹美容產品背後的科學原理，我這樣做是希望沒有科學背景的人也能理解。

It's sort of like what you guys do.

這有點像你們做的事。

But for beauty, be honest.

但為了美，要誠實。

When you saw the video.

當你看到視頻的時候。

Were you annoyed?

你煩不煩？

I wasn't annoyed.

我並不惱火。

I'm sorry if it felt like I was coming for you, I was actually really excited because it is sort of read that anyone makes ah whole video about skin cat like from a science perspective.

如果感覺我是衝著你來的，我很抱歉，其實我真的很激動，因為這算是讀懂了，任何人都會從科學的角度做出啊整個關於皮膚貓的視頻。

So one of the best parts of being YouTubers, I think, is that you get real time feedback on what you're doing.

所以，我認為，作為優步最好的部分之一是，你可以得到實時的反饋，你在做什麼。

And in the past, we have definitely had to fix, like biological pathways drawings.

而在過去，我們肯定要修，比如生物通路圖。

We've made mistakes or even like the periodic table we've updated.

我們犯了錯誤，甚至喜歡我們更新的週期表。

Yes, there was new information that came in for it.

是的，有新的資訊為它而來。

And we also once said that it took eight seconds for son to get to Earth, and it's eight minutes, things like that.

我們也曾經說過，兒子到地球用了八秒鐘，現在是八分鐘，這樣的事情。

But with you, this was like a full video.

但和你在一起，這就像一個完整的視頻。

What we thought we could do today is go through our video and you're going to explain the parts that we got wrong.

我們認為我們今天可以做的是通過我們的視頻，你要解釋我們錯誤的部分。

So we're going to sit down with my partner, Mitch, because I don't really know or you skin creams to see if he can actually pick and choose which ones are more effective and teach.

所以，我們要和我的搭檔米奇一起坐下來，因為我真的不知道或你的皮膚霜，看看他是否真的可以選擇哪些更有效的和教。

You had actually read the ingredients lists of these beauty products to understand from a scientific perspective which ones work.

其實你曾看過這些美容產品的成分表，從科學的角度瞭解哪些產品有效。

So the very idea of this game is flawed.

所以這個遊戲的理念本身就有缺陷。

Some might say Correct.

有人可能會說正確。

Yeah, there is a bit of a problem with it.

是啊，這裡面有點問題。

In most countries, products have to have an ingredient list, and it's listed in order of decreasing concentration.

在大多數國家，產品都要有一個成分表，而且是按濃度遞減的順序排列。

It's tempting to look at how high an ingredient is on the list to see if you have more of an ingredient.

很想看看一個食材在清單上的位置有多高，看看自己是否有更多的食材。

MAWR is usually better, but while you have to have enough of an ingredient for it to work, you can also have too much of an ingredient.

MAWR通常比較好，但雖然你必須有足夠的成分才行，但你也可以有太多的成分。

And that's when you start to see side effects.

而這時你就開始看到副作用了。

Skincare ingredients are often irritating if you have too much soem or is not always better.

護膚品的成分如果你有太多的soem或者不一定是更好的，往往是刺激性的。

Another problem with focusing on the ingredients list is that it only really tells you how much of an ingredient you have at the start.

關注配料表的另一個問題是，它只在開始時真正告訴你有多少配料。

Some ingredients, like rational and vitamin C, are unstable, so, for example, 1% regional products from different brands can end up containing very different amounts of rational by the time it gets to you.

有些成分，比如理性和維生素C，是不穩定的，所以，比如，不同品牌的1%區域產品，到你手裡的時候，最終含有的理性量可能會大不相同。

So if you have a product with a high concentration of an active but It has a pretty crappy delivery system that might not work as well as a product that has a lower concentration but a better delivery system so you can think of formulation like a chocolate cake.

是以，如果你有一個產品具有高濃度的活性，但它有一個非常糟糕的傳輸系統，可能不如一個產品，具有較低的濃度，但更好的傳輸系統，所以你可以認為配方像一個巧克力蛋糕。

Technically, the final chocolate cake and a bag of chocolate cake ingredients would have the same ingredient list.

嚴格來說，最後的巧克力蛋糕和一袋巧克力蛋糕原料的配料表是一樣的。

But when you use them in your mouth, it gives you two very different experiences.

但當你把它們用在嘴裡時，卻給你兩種截然不同的體驗。

Is it just something that you just navigate by doing a lot of research before you buy a product?

是不是在購買產品前做了大量的調查，就能領悟到？

Because if you are just showing up there looking the ingredients lesson reading, what's on the bottle, it's gonna be confused because they're trying to get you to buy it.

因為如果你只是出現在那裡看成分課閱讀，瓶子上有什麼，它會被混淆，因為他們試圖讓你買它。

If you're trying to go for a medicine, you want a medicine that's been proven in clinical trials in skin care because that doesn't actually exist.

如果你想去買一種藥，你要的是經過臨床試驗證明的護膚藥，因為這其實並不存在。

You kind of have to try to grab anecdotal evidence.

你有點要試圖抓住傳聞中的證據。

So look at reviews.

所以，看看評論。

Look at the ingredients list, look at what's on the label and put it all together to try to make a good decision.

看看配料表，看看標籤上的內容，把所有的東西放在一起，儘量做出一個好的決定。

As somebody who's never really done that much skin care.

作為一個從來沒有真正做過那麼多皮膚護理的人。

Honestly, I don't really watch my face.

說實話，我不太注意自己的臉。

Tough is it to my detriment that I'm not thinking about it that much.

難不成是對我不利，我沒有想那麼多。

Honestly, I think if you're happy with your skin, don't bother your half brown.

說實話，我覺得如果你對自己的皮膚滿意，就不要去打擾你的半邊棕色。

You'll probably age beautifully.

你可能會美美地老去。

It's me you're not.

你不是我

Don't worry about.

別擔心

Antioxidants are something that are claimed on a lot of products that people are buying.

抗氧化劑是很多人在購買產品時都會宣稱的東西。

There is not a scientific consensus that antioxidants will help with anti aging.

抗氧化劑對抗衰老有幫助，目前還沒有形成科學共識。

In your video, you talk about how this was misleading, but personally, I had read those studies that you talk about in your video stimulation of college and bio synthesis by topically applied Vitamin C double blind slash half a study comparing topical vitamin C and vehicle for rejuvenation of photo damage.

在你的視頻中，你談到這是如何誤導，但就我個人而言，我曾讀過你在視頻中談到的那些研究，你在視頻中談到的刺激大學和生物合成的外用維生素C雙盲斜線半研究比較外用維生素C和車輛對光損傷的年輕化。

When I read these studies, I didn't comfortably think I could say there was a scientific consensus behind them.

當我讀到這些研究報告時，我並沒有欣慰地認為我可以說他們背後有一個科學的共識。

The sample sizes were so small it was 10 people in each study.

樣本量太小了，每次研究都是10個人。

The big problem with skin care is that there just isn't that much funding for it.

護膚品最大的問題就是沒有那麼多的資金投入。

So we kind of have to take these studies and look at it with a grain of salt.

所以，我們必須對這些研究持懷疑態度。

Generally, there are small sample sizes in skincare studies compared to pharmaceuticals, for example, so for skin care.

一般來說，護膚品的研究與藥品相比，樣本量較小，例如，對於護膚品。

We kind of have to lower our expectations and do a bit of educated guesswork.

我們有點要降低自己的期望值，做一點有教養的猜測。

10 people with a relatively objective measure, like a biopsy, is generally decent as far a skincare studies go.

10個人用一個相對客觀的衡量標準，比如活檢，一般來說，就一個護膚品研究來說，是不錯的。

Vitamin C is regulated as a quasi drug in Japan, which means there's enough evidence that it does something.

維生素C在日本是作為準藥品來管理的，也就是說有足夠的證據證明它的作用。

In this case, it's a pigment fading quasi drug.

在這種情況下，它是一種色素褪色的準藥物。

So the reason it's such small sample sizes is because it's not like a top medical priority toe.

之所以樣本量這麼小，是因為它不像醫學上的重中之重的腳趾。

Have glowing beautiful skin, a lot of things that claim college and help with wrinkles.

擁有光彩照人的美麗肌膚，很多宣稱大學的東西，有助於皺紋的產生。

But the molecule itself is too large to actually go through your epidermis.

但分子本身太大，實際上無法穿過你的表皮。

What we were talking about earlier, the cretinous sites it does not get through so anything with collagen do not ever buy.

我們剛才說的，糜爛的部位它不通過，所以任何有膠原蛋白的東西千萬不要買。

Collagen is a very overrated ingredients, but I wouldn't say 100% PS.

膠原蛋白是一種很高估的成分，但我不會說100%的PS。

I'd probably put it back down to maybe 90% p s.

我可能會把它回落到也許90%的P S。

Most of the time.

大部分時間。

It is in there to tell a good story.

這裡面是為了講好一個故事。

Like you said, it's too big to get into skin.

就像你說的，它太大了，進不了皮膚。

But even though it's too big, it is really good at acting as a humidity.

不過雖然它的體積太大，但它作為溼度的作用真的很好。

So Humeston's ingredients that grab onto water and keep it on your skin.

所以Humeston的成分，能抓住水，並保持在皮膚上。

Keeping it hydrated can do a lot of good, so it can reduce the appearance of wrinkles.

保持水分的充足可以起到很多作用，所以可以減少皺紋的出現。

It can help it act as a good barrier against irritants.

它可以幫助它起到很好的屏障作用，抵禦刺激物。

Collagen does tend to make the product a little bit more expensive.

膠原蛋白確實容易讓產品的價格更高一些。

It's really glycerin that's usually during the heavy.

其實就是甘油，通常在重的時候。

Lifting.

搬運。

Their retinal and retinoic acid is what we're gonna talk about right now because it is the Onley face cream for anti aging that there is a scientific consensus about, especially in Western marketing.

他們的視網膜和視黃酸就是我們現在要講的，因為它是安莉抗衰老的面霜，特別是在西方市場上有科學共識。

The idea of wrinkles is really I guess it shouldn't our brains.

皺紋的想法真的是我想它不應該我們的大腦。

But in a lot of other countries with different skin types, aging isn't just about wrinkles.

但在很多其他國家不同的皮膚類型中，衰老不僅僅是皺紋的問題。

So, for example, white skin.

所以，比如說，白皮膚。

You start getting wrinkles late twenties, early thirties with Asian skin.

二十多歲，三十出頭的亞洲人皮膚就開始有皺紋了。

It's a lot later, so I think it's something like forties and fifties.

遲了很多，應該是四五十年代的事情吧。

I guess the signs of aging the anti aging products really are targeting things like pigmentation.

我想，抗老產品的衰老跡象確實是針對色素沉澱等問題的。

That's probably the biggest thing for Asians.

這可能是亞洲人最大的事情。

I've definitely got some hidden under there.

我肯定有一些藏在下面。

Um, yeah, uneven pigment and age spots are much bigger thing because obviously we have a lot more ability to produce pigment So my mom is like half South Asian, like from India.

嗯，是的，不均勻的色素和老年斑是更大的事情，因為很明顯，我們有很多更多的能力，以產生色素，所以我的媽媽就像一半南亞，來自印度。

Obviously, I have, like, slightly tanned skin, and I thought about how darker skin protects you from the sun.

很明顯，我的皮膚，像，微微晒黑，我想過黑皮膚如何防晒。

But I've never really been like.

但我從來沒有真正喜歡過。

And that is why darker skin doesn't wrinkle or age in that way as early.

而這也是為什麼黑皮膚不會那麼早出現皺紋或衰老的原因。

Yeah, so I guess it's where the same black don't crack comes from so many of the signs studies that I'm reading.

是啊，所以我想這是我看的很多徵兆研究中，同樣黑不裂的地方來的。

They're focusing on wrinkles, and they have moments where they talk about the science of why different skin tones don't age.

他們關注的是皺紋，他們有的時候會講到為什麼不同膚色不老的科學道理。

Our story there, I just said it don't get wrinkles the same way white people do, and then they just move on and go back to talking about wrinkles.

我們的故事有，我只是說它不要得到皺紋 同樣的方式白人做， 然後他們只是繼續前進，回去 談論皺紋。

It just shows you how like Eurocentric and White science is.

這只是告訴你，你是多麼喜歡歐洲中心主義和白人科學。

There was like a big thing about manifestations of covert in dark skin.

在黑皮膚中，就像有一個大事情的表現隱蔽的。

There are a lot of dermatologist pointing out that a lot of the pictures off covert manifestations on skin.

有很多皮膚科醫生指出，很多圖片關在皮膚上的隱蔽表現。

It was like 90% white skin, and they were like a few pictures of darker skin, and so it was actually a lot harder to diagnose and fix those issues.

那時候好像90%都是白皮膚，他們好像是一些皮膚比較黑的照片，所以要診斷和解決這些問題其實是比較困難的。

Question.

問題：

Should we take our original video down?

要不要把我們原來的視頻撤下來？

I don't think so.

我不這麼認為。

I think it is really good to have people see how conversations go.

我覺得讓大家看到對話的過程真的很好。

Because I think there is a lot of pressure on scientists, especially in 2020 2021.

因為我覺得科學家的壓力很大，特別是在2020年2021年。

That science is just this perfect monolith.

那科學就是這塊完美的巨石。

That doesn't change.

這一點不會改變。

And I think that's really damaging.

我認為這是真正的傷害。

Okay, Thank you so much for educating us for coming on.

好吧，謝謝你這麼多的教育我們來上。

And for your video.

而對於你的視頻。

Where can people find you?

人們在哪裡可以找到你？

Slash Subscribe to your channels.

Slash 訂閱你的頻道。

Chefs kiss Amazing.

廚師們親吻焱。

Thank you s Oh, my channel is lab muffin beauty science.

謝謝你哦，我的頻道是實驗室鬆餅美容科學。

And I am also on instagram.

我也在instagram上。

I started on chick talk, but I don't know what I'm doing and on Twitter as well.

我開始上小雞話，但我不知道自己在做什麼，在微博上也是。

So it's lab off in beauty science.

所以，它的實驗室關閉在美容科學。

Old lab muffin, depending on how many letters I'm allowed.

老實驗室鬆餅，取決於我允許多少字母。