Trump will leave the White House with what some opinion polls say are the lowest approval ratings of his four year presidency.

特朗普將帶著一些民調所說的四年總統任期內最低的支持率離開白宮。

He will also leave Washington D.

他也將離開華盛頓特區。

C.

C.

In a state of high alert.

處於高度戒備狀態。

The FBI is vetting all 25,000 service personnel involved in President elect Joe Biden's inauguration on Wednesday.

聯邦調查局正在審查所有25000名參與週三總統當選人拜登就職典禮的服務人員。

Officials have expressed concern about a possible insider attack or other potential threat.

官員們對可能發生的內部人員攻擊或其他潛在威脅表示擔憂。

Now security concerns have gripped the city since a violent mob stormed the capital on January 6th.

自從1月6日暴力暴徒衝進首都後，現在安全問題已經籠罩了這座城市。

Downtown Washington usually buzzing with people and traffic, now a ghost town on the other side, traffic jams and checkpoints, a city split into the center has become a militarized zone and the U.

華盛頓市中心平時人聲鼎沸，車水馬龍，現在卻成了另一邊的鬼城，交通堵塞，檢查站林立，一座城市分裂成中心，成了軍事化區域，而美國。

S Capitol remains under a strict lock down just days before the presidential inauguration.

在總統就職典禮前幾天，S國會大廈仍處於嚴格封鎖狀態。

We are just outside the clothes perimeter and this is us close as the general public can get to the U.

我們就在衣服的周邊，這是我們廣大市民可以接近U。

S.

S.

Capitol, which is currently cordoned off by a 3 m high fence and razor wire which is currently installed on top of the fence.

國會大廈，目前已被3米高的圍牆和目前安裝在圍牆上的鐵絲網封鎖。

We're going to go inside that perimeter now to get a glimpse on the preparations that are underway for on Inauguration Day that will be unlike any other in American history.

我們現在要去周邊看看正在進行的準備工作... ...這將是美國曆史上獨一無二的就職典禮日。

Soldiers, instead of visitors on 25,000 members of the National Guard, are securing the Capitol grounds.

國民警衛隊25000名成員中的阿兵哥，而不是遊客，正在保護國會大廈的安全。

There has been some concern about a potential inside threat, as not everyone is happy with the new president.

有人擔心潛在的內部威脅，因為並非所有人都對新總統滿意。

It's a sticky situation is forced politically on.

這是個棘手的局面，是政治上逼出來的。

Uh, of course I have my own.

呃，當然，我有我自己的。

I have my own thoughts politically, but in uniforms, you know I can't convey them.

我在政治上有自己的想法，但穿著制服，你知道我無法傳達。

But I'm here to do a job.

但我是來做工作的。

I'm here to follow what our organization is doing, and then we're carrying on with that mission.

我在這裡關注我們組織正在做的事情，然後我們要繼續完成這個任務。

Ladies and gentlemen, the president elect of the United States, Joseph R.

女士們，先生們，美國候任總統，約瑟夫-R-。

Biden Jr on the west side of the U.

小拜登在美國西邊。

S.

S.

Capitol.

國會大廈。

Some normalcy is coming back.

一些正常的狀態正在恢復。

Rehearsals and sound checks where two weeks ago, thousands off Trump supporters stormed the symbol off American democracy.

兩週前，數千名特朗普的支持者衝進了美國民主的象徵，在那裡進行排練和聲音檢查。

Rehearsals for the inauguration ceremony were just completed, and on this very long, usually thousands gathered to cheer for their new president.

就職典禮的排練剛剛結束，在這個非常長的，通常有數千人聚集在一起，為他們的新總統歡呼。

Will this year many things will be different.

今年會不會很多事情都不一樣。

Fear of an attack on the president means a ceremony with hardly any guests.

害怕總統受到攻擊，意味著幾乎沒有客人的儀式。

The National Mall will remain shut down, and authorities asked citizens to stay far away for the sake off their own safety.

國家廣場將繼續關閉，當局要求市民為了自身安全，請遠離。

In the downtown area, buildings have bean boarded up again after a year of protests and a pandemic.

在市中心地區，經過一年的抗議和流行病，建築物又被用木板封起來了。

These views have become a common sight for many Washingtonians, but businesses are suffering.

這些觀點已經成為許多華盛頓人的共同景象，但企業卻深受其害。

The business was bad from last eight months because we in the commercial area, this is the commercial hub.

從上八個月開始，生意就不好做了，因為我們在商業區，這裡是商業中心。

All the offices around us are close, and the security has beefed of so much.

我們周圍的辦公室都很近，保全也加強了很多。

You can't even we have a little bit of a delivery business.

你不能連我們都有一點點的快遞業務。

But mostly all the roads are closed, a life behind fences and roadblocks.

但大多數情況下，所有的道路都是封閉的，是圍牆和路障後的生活。

Those who live here can't wait until the new president is sworn in.

住在這裡的人已經等不及新總統宣誓就職了。

And from where I am joined by DW correspondent William Glue Croft, William.

而在這裡，我和DW記者威廉-格洛夫特一起，威廉。

What's expected on Inauguration Day?

就職日有什麼期待？

And how long could these increased security measures last?

這些加強的安全措施又能持續多久呢？

Well, as we just saw in the report, huge security presence more than double the number of National Guard troops at this inauguration than normal inaugurations.

好吧，正如我們剛剛在報告中看到的那樣，龐大的安保力量比普通就職典禮上的國民警衛隊人數多出一倍以上。

Of course.

當然了

Ah, presidential inauguration of presidential event is always going to be very high security, but there's all these extra layers that we've been hearing about the last several days since that attack on the U.

啊，總統就職典禮的總統活動總是會有很高的安全性，但有這些額外的層級，我們已經聽到了所有這些額外的層級，在過去的幾天裡，自從那個攻擊美國。

S.

S.

Capitol by a mostly white fundamentalist mob.

國會大廈被一群白人原教旨主義者的暴徒佔領了

Really?

真的嗎？

Andi the threat.

安迪的威脅。

The acute threat is being said that it might extend till Thursday, a day after the inauguration.

據悉，這種尖銳的威脅可能會延續到週四，也就是就職後一天。

But let's not forget that these far right groups he's white supremacist groups.

但別忘了，這些極右組織他是白人至上主義組織。

He's anti government groups.

他是反政府組織的。

They did not start in this election cycle.

他們沒有在這個選舉週期開始。

They're not gonna end in this election cycle.

他們不會在這個選舉週期結束。

And while Washington has long been very high security zone, especially since post 9 11, it was always looking towards an international, particularly an Islamist threat.

而華盛頓長期以來一直是非常高的安全區，尤其是9-11之後，它一直在關注國際上，尤其是伊斯蘭主義的威脅。

But if you watch a lot of that video from inside the Capitol, and I've watched a lot of it, Ah, lot of the language and the religious imagery from these people professing to be Christians very similar to the kind of Islamist extremism that we saw that we've been, you know, hearing threats about for decades now.

但是，如果你看了很多視頻 從國會大廈內，我已經看了很多，啊，很多的語言和宗教形象 從這些人自稱是基督徒 非常類似於伊斯蘭教極端主義的那種 我們看到，我們已經看到，你知道，聽到威脅 大約幾十年了。

And that threat is gonna gonna continue into the Biden administration, as FBI and law enforcement officials have long said, has long been a threat towards the United States.

而這種威脅將持續到拜登政府時期，正如聯邦調查局和執法官員早就說過的，長期以來一直是對美國的威脅。

A pretty bleak picture you're painting Also, I'd like to ask you about another aspect here.

你畫的很淒涼 還有，我想問你另一個方面的問題。

We know that outgoing President Donald Trump has not been seen in public for a week.

我們知道，即將卸任的總統唐納德-特朗普已經一週沒有在公開場合露面了。

What has he been up to?

他一直在做什麼？

Well, as you mentioned at the top before that report, he made the statement that there he was gonna allow travel, especially from Europe again because of the United States is going to start requiring negative test proof of negative tests if you're coming into the country.

好了，正如你在頂部提到的報告之前，他做了聲明，有他要去允許旅行，特別是來自歐洲的再次，因為美國要開始要求陰性測試證明的陰性測試，如果你進入該國。

The bizarre thing is, of course, that's gonna happen starting January 26 which is six days after Donald Trump ceases being president and Joe Biden becomes president Biden administration.

詭異的是，當然，這要從1月26日開始發生，也就是唐納德-特朗普不再擔任總統，喬-拜登成為拜登政府總統的6天后。

So that's just not gonna happen.

所以，這只是不會發生。

They're gonna continue, you know, keeping the Corona dragnet, so to speak.

他們會繼續，你知道的，保持科羅娜拖網，可以這麼說。

Ah, very much present.

啊，很有存在感。

Uh, it should be known that there's been really mixed signals from the scientific community, this entire pandemic, whether blanket travel bans even work if they're the most effective way to control the virus.

呃，要知道，科學界的信號真的很複雜，這整個大流行病，如果他們是控制病毒的最有效的方法，那麼全面的旅行禁令是否有用。

But the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control, has said that by March there fearing that the dominant strain infecting people in spreading in the United States is going to be this extra extra viral in strain that we've seen starting in England in the last several weeks, and that's what they're trying to prevent.

但疾控中心，疾病控制中心，說到3月有擔心主導菌株感染的人在蔓延在美國將是這個額外的額外病毒在應變，我們已經看到開始在英國在過去的幾個星期，這就是他們試圖防止。

William just quickly Trump planning to pardon as many as 100 people in his last day in office, according to reports.

報道稱，威廉剛快特朗普計劃在上任最後一天赦免多達100人。

What are you hearing?

你聽到什麼了？

That's right.

是的

And I think, more importantly on who might be on the list is who doesn't appear to be on that list, which has many of the controversial figures in Trump's inner circle.

而我認為，更重要的關於誰可能在名單上，是誰沒有出現在這份名單上，這份名單上有很多特朗普內部圈子的爭議人物。

Members of his family who have not been charged with any crimes but could theoretically be preemptively pardoned.

他的家庭成員沒有被指控犯有任何罪行，但理論上可以得到先發制人的赦免；

Even Donald Trump himself preemptively pardoned, which would be, of course, a very constitutionally questionable.

連唐納德-特朗普自己都先發制人地赦免了，當然，這在憲法上是很有問題的。

And also his aides are saying, Don't do that because it would incriminate him.

而他的助手也說，不要這樣做，因為這會讓他入罪。

It would be basically an admission of wrongdoing, but he's still president through noon on Wednesday, and he can effectively do whatever he wants in that realm of pardoning.

這基本上是承認錯誤的行為，但他在週三中午之前仍然是總統，他可以有效地在赦免這一領域做任何事情。

We'll have to see what actually comes out of his announcements.

我們要看看他的公告到底是什麼。

William Glue Croft breaking it down for us, Thank you.

威廉-格洛夫特為我們分析了一下，謝謝你。

Well, now to Jesus Christ and Donald Trump, Evangelical Christians, they played a prominent role in the story of the capital in January 6, and they have counted among Donald Trump's most devoted supporters during his presidency.

好了，現在到耶穌基督和唐納德-特朗普，福音派基督徒，他們在1月6日的首都故事中扮演了突出的角色，他們在唐納德-特朗普的總統任期內算得上是最忠實的支持者。

Exit polls showed that three quarters of white evangelicals voted for Trump in November, a number virtually unchanged since 2016.

出口民調顯示，四分之三的白人福音派教徒在11月投票給特朗普，這一數字自2016年以來幾乎沒有變化。

They stood behind the president despite the multiple accusations of sexual assault against him and his repeated lives to the American people.

他們站在總統身後，儘管他多次被指控對他進行性侵犯，並多次向美國人民提供生命。

So how can we explain this zealous devotion to a leader who's an unrepentant sinner?

那麼，對於一個不知悔改的罪人，我們如何解釋這種對上司的熱心奉獻呢？

My next guest says.

我的下一個客人說。

It may have not so much to do with prayer and more to do with power.

這可能與祈禱沒有太大的關係，更多的是與權力有關。

Katherine Stewart is the author of the book The Power Worshippers.

凱瑟琳-斯圖爾特是《權力崇拜者》一書的作者。

Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism.

宗教民族主義危險崛起的內幕。

Catherine joins Me Tonight, Kevin.

凱瑟琳加入 "今晚我"，凱文。

It's good to have you on the program when we talk about Trump's base.

很高興你能參加節目，當我們談論特朗普的基礎。

We're including evangelical Christians who share a vision of the U.

我們包括福音派的基督徒，他們對美國有共同的願景。

S.

S.

And and that vision.

而和這一願景。

Correct me if I'm wrong here.

如果我說錯了，請糾正我。

But that vision would render separation of church and state meaningless.

但這一設想將使政教分離失去意義。

That's absolutely right.

這是絕對正確的。

Christian nationalism eyes central to any explanation of the crisis that we're seeing in America today.

基督教民族主義的眼睛是任何解釋 我們今天在美國看到的危機的中心。

You really can't explain how Trump came to power and how so many other leaders on the sort of Republican side of the political aisle are hostile to democracy.

你真的無法解釋特朗普是怎麼上臺的，也無法解釋那種共和黨政壇上的其他很多領導人是如何敵視民主的。

Unless you know something about this movement and the attraction to Donald Trump, um, it can't come from his religious convictions.

除非你對這場運動有所瞭解，對唐納德-特朗普的吸引力，嗯，不可能來自他的宗教信仰。

I mean, this is a man who has bragged about rarely, if ever, going to church.

我的意思是，這是一個人誰已經吹噓很少，如果曾經，去教堂。

I mean, is this where religious strains merge with those in a culture war in the United States?

我的意思是，在美國的文化戰爭中，宗教派系與文化派系在這裡融合嗎？

Is that what we see?

這就是我們看到的嗎？

Absolutely.

絕對的

It's a form of identity politics and that it ties the idea of America to specific religious and cultural identities.

這是一種身份政治的形式，它將美國的觀念與特定的宗教和文化身份聯繫在一起。

So Christian nationalism, let's make clear it's not a religion.

所以基督教民族主義，我們要明確它不是一種宗教。

It's, um, radically anti democratic political ideology that makes use of religion.

這是，嗯，徹底反民主的政治意識形態，利用宗教。

It's sort of exploits religion for political purposes, and it's also a device for mobilizing people to vote in support of the hyper conservative candidates that the movement favors.

這算是利用宗教來達到政治目的，也是動員人們投票支持運動所青睞的超保守派候選人的一種手段。

On its, um, you know, I mentioned earlier, it's radically anti democratic.

在它的，嗯，你知道，我前面提到的，它是徹底的反民主。

It's, you know, I I use the term religious nationalism in the subtitle of my book, because it makes clear its similarities with other forms of religious nationalism around the world.

這是，你知道，我... ...我在我的書的副標題中使用了宗教民族主義這個詞，因為它清楚地表明瞭它與世界各地其他形式的宗教民族主義的相似之處。

So when you see leaders like Putin in Russia or Erdogan in Turkey or Orban in Hungary.

所以，當你看到俄羅斯的普京或土耳其的埃爾多安或匈牙利的歐爾班等領導人。

When these leaders bind themselves to conservative religious authorities in other countries in order Thio consolidate.

當這些領導人與其他國家的保守宗教當局捆綁在一起，以Thio鞏固。

Ah, more authoritarian form of political power.

啊，更專制的政治權力形式。

We rightly see this as a form of religious nationalism, and that's what we saw with Donald Trump.

我們正確地認為這是一種宗教民族主義的形式，這就是我們在唐納德-特朗普身上看到的。

He was basically exploiting religion for political purposes.

他基本上是利用宗教達到政治目的。

And is there?

有嗎？

Is there a next generation in US politics?

美國政壇有下一代嗎？

Um, that represents uneven mawr developed sense of this, uh, religious nationalism.

嗯，這代表了不平衡的毛爾發展意識，呃，宗教民族主義。

I'm thinking, for example, of Josh Holly in the U.

我想到的是，比如說，在美國的喬希-霍利。

S.

S.

Congress.

國會。

Absolutely.

絕對的

You know, leaders like Josh Holy and Ted Cruz and many other Republican leaders are also exploiting the rhetoric of religious nationalism, trying to draw people to their side.

你知道，像喬希-霍利和特德-克魯茲等許多共和黨領導人也在利用宗教民族主義的言論，試圖將人們吸引到他們身邊。

And often they do it by through these so called culture wars through these issues, like abortion or same sex marriage and the like.

而他們往往通過這些所謂的文化戰爭，通過這些問題，如墮胎或同性婚姻等。

They know very well if you can get people to vote on one or two issues, you can control their vote.

他們很清楚，如果你能讓人們在一兩個問題上投票，你就能控制他們的投票。

You know, over the last decade that I've been researching my this movement.

你知道，在過去的十年裡，我一直在研究我的這個運動，

I goto innumerable right wing on Christian national strategy meetings and gatherings on bond events like this, and many of the movement leaders will talk about how important it is to create single issue voters because they know if they could get the rank and file to sort of play along and vote on abortion, they can control their vote, and then they use it to enact a wildly anti Democratic agenda and also an agenda.

我去了無數右翼的基督教國家戰略會議和聚會上的債券活動，像這樣，許多運動的領導人會談論創造單一問題的選民是多麼重要，因為他們知道如果他們可以讓等級和文件排序的玩耍，並在墮胎上投票，他們可以控制他們的投票，然後他們利用它來制定一個瘋狂的反民主議程，也是一個議程。

That's not just about abortion has a lot to do with economic policy and foreign policy and things that those sort of, you know anti abortion voters may not themselves agree with.

這不僅僅是關於墮胎的問題，還有很多與經濟政策和外交政策有關的事情，你知道反墮胎的選民可能自己都不同意。

Yeah, and this agenda, of course, often times it ends up in the courts.

是啊，當然，這個議程，往往會在法庭上結束。

And there we talk about maybe the legacy of Donald Trump.

在那裡我們談論的也許是唐納德-特朗普的遺產。

He was able to appoint a record number of federal judges.

他能夠任命創紀錄的聯邦法官人數。

He appointed three Supreme Court justices.

他任命了三名最高法院的法官。

They're all conservative Supreme Court judges, social conservatives.

他們都是保守的最高法院法官，社會保守派。

So we're talking about these people being around for the next 20 to 40 years to interpret legislation in laws.

所以我們說的是這些人在未來的20到40年裡，都會在法律中解釋立法。

Um, should Americans be worried?

嗯，美國人應該擔心嗎？

Absolutely.

絕對的

I mean, I think we're gonna be dealing with Trump's legacy in the courts for quite some time to come.

我的意思是，我認為我們要去處理 與特朗普的遺產 在法院相當一段時間來。

And if you look also at the judges that he appointed, a lot of them are, um, have been nurtured by thes sort of right wing legal organizations like the Federalist Society, which plays an enormous role in finding and nurturing legal candidates and promoting them for for, ah, different appointments and sort of sustaining their careers.

如果你看看他任命的法官們，他們中的很多人，嗯，都是由右翼法律組織培養出來的，比如聯邦主義者協會，它在尋找和培養法律候選人方面發揮著巨大的作用，並促進他們為，啊，不同的任命和維持他們的職業生涯。

And then, um, you know, you also have a lot of Trump appointees who have worked for right wing legal or Christian nationalist legal organizations, including the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is known as a sort of legal juggernaut off the Christian right.

然後，嗯，你知道，你也有很多特朗普任命的人誰曾為右翼法律或基督教民族主義法律組織工作，包括捍衛自由聯盟，這是眾所周知的一種法律主宰關閉基督教的權利。

And again, they don't just take right wing positions on the so called culture wars like, you know, same sex marriage and abortion.

同樣，他們不只是採取右翼的立場 在所謂的文化戰爭，如，你知道，同性婚姻和墮胎。

They're advocating, for sort of, um, policies that I think it's really under appreciated the extent to which the Republican Party and, uh, has allied itself with the sort of far right libertarian economic wing of the Republican Party on.

他們主張，對於那種，嗯， 政策，我認為它真的被低估的程度 共和黨和，呃，已經結盟自己 與那種極右的自由主義經濟翼 共和黨上。

And you know, a lot of the big ticket funders of the movement.

你知道，很多大學文憑的資助者的運動。

Many of the people sort of pouring money into the These organizations are as committed to sort of, almost like a free market fundamentalism as they are, too right wing positions in the so called culture wars.

許多人排序的資金投入 這些組織是致力於排序的， 幾乎像一個自由市場原教旨主義 因為他們是，太右翼的位置 在所謂的文化戰爭。

Yeah, it's just it's amazing to when you think all of this comes together and the notion of separation of church and state just yeah, goes up in smoke.

是啊，這只是它的驚人之處，當你認為這一切走到了一起，教會和國家分離的概念只是是啊，去了煙。

Katherine Stewart, author of the Power Worshippers Inside The Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism.

凱瑟琳-斯圖爾特（Katherine Stewart），《權力崇拜者》（Power Worshippers Inside The Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism）的作者。

Catherine, we appreciate your time and your insights tonight.

凱瑟琳，我們感謝你今晚的時間和你的見解。

Thank you.

謝謝你了

Thank you for having me.

謝謝你邀請我。