Pat Mitchell: Hello, hello.

帕特-米切爾：你好，你好。

What a thrill to have this opportunity.

能有這樣的機會，真是太激動了。

When we ask all of our TED community, many of them,

當我們詢問所有的TED社區時，很多人。

"Who would you like to hear from if we're going to look forward and onward,

"如果我們要向前看，向前看，你想聽誰說。

when it comes to women in the world?"

談到世界上的女性時？"

Unanimously, the answer was "Gloria Steinem."

一致認為，答案是 "格洛麗亞-斯坦姆"。

Now I know you're way too modest to accept that easily,

現在我知道你太謙虛了，不容易接受。

so before we move onward,

所以在我們繼續前進之前。

may I go back a bit,

我可以回去一點。

since we have known each other for a long time,

既然我們已經認識很久了。

and talk about those early days when you were building a movement,

並談談那些早期的日子 當你建立一個運動。

challenging stereotypes,

挑戰陳規陋習；

moving beyond cultural norms.

超越文化規範；

You must have had some manifestation of "Fearless" in your life.

你的生活中一定有一些 "無畏 "的表現。

What were your fears and how did you overcome them?

你的恐懼是什麼，你是如何克服的？

GS: No, I certainly had a lot of fears,

GS。不，我當然有很多恐懼。

and chief among them was speaking in public,

而其中最主要的是當眾講話。

just like I am now.

就像我現在這樣。

Because, you know, we choose to express ourselves

因為，你知道，我們選擇表達自己的想法

in the way that is most natural,

以最自然的方式。

and I became a writer because I didn't want to talk.

我成為一個作家是因為我不想說話。

So the first thing I had to overcome was the fear of public speaking,

所以我首先要克服的是對公眾演講的恐懼。

and because I was afraid to do it by myself,

也因為我不敢自己動手。

I asked a friend to do it with me --

我叫了一個朋友和我一起做 --

Dorothy Pitman Hughes, and then Flo Kennedy --

多蘿西-皮特曼-休斯和弗洛-肯尼迪 -- --

anyway, so we became, in that way, somewhat accidentally,

反正，所以我們成了，這樣一來，有些意外。

one white woman, one Black woman, speaking together, which, you know,

一個白人女人，一個黑人女人， 一起說話，這，你知道，

was very helpful to express that the movement was for everyone.

是非常有幫助的，表達了運動是為了大家。

PM: And in those early days,

PM。而在那些早期的日子裡，

when you were becoming, not only a really powerful public speaker,

當你成為，不僅是一個真正強大的公眾演講者。

in spite of your fears,

儘管你的恐懼。

you were also normalizing and creating

你也在規範和創造

response to a word that became the anthem for so many of us,

對一個詞的迴應，成為我們很多人的讚歌。

literally changing lives,

真正改變生活。

standing in front of crowds and saying,

站在眾人面前說：

"Feminism is for every woman."

"女權主義是每個女人的。"

And I see now, as you do, that there are still ways

而我現在和你一樣，看到了還有一些方法。

in which feminism is not understood as a concept.

其中女權主義沒有被理解為一個概念。

Misunderstood, criticized, sometimes ridiculed.

被誤解，被責備，有時還被嘲笑。

How do you describe feminism?

你如何描述女權主義？

GS: Well, it's just the radical idea that human beings are all equal

GS:嗯，這只是一個激進的想法，人類都是平等的。

and we can dispense with the labels of gender and class and race

我們可以免除性別、階級和種族的標籤。

and begin to realize our unique individuality.

並開始實現我們獨特的個性。

Of course feminism was misunderstood in the beginning,

當然女權主義一開始是被誤解的。

as if it were about female superiority

女尊男卑

or it was a movement for lesbians only,

或者說這是一場只針對女同志的運動。

not for all women.

並非所有婦女都適合。

I mean, you know, there were all kinds of misunderstandings,

我的意思是，你知道，有 各種誤解。

not to mention ridicule.

更不要說嘲笑了。

But I hope that that's past.

但我希望這一切都過去了。

I used to just send people to the dictionary

我以前都是讓人去查字典的

to look up feminism, very helpful.

去查女權主義，很有幫助。

(Both laugh)

（兩人都笑了）

PM: How do you feel the new generation

PM。你對新一代的感覺如何？

and the next generation of young women --

和下一代年輕婦女 -- --

what is their relationship with the word

孰是孰非

and the concept of, "there's still a lot to be done

和 "還有很多事情要做 "的理念。

to reach that equal step"?

以達到那個平等的步驟"？

GS: Yeah, well I don't think that --

GS. 是的，我不認為..:是啊，我不認為... ...

I mean, the word is still there, womanism, women's liberation,

我是說，這個詞還在，婦女主義，婦女解放。

there are all kinds of words,

有各種各樣的文字。

but I think it's much more about content

但我認為這更多的是內容的問題

and not worrying too much about form.

而不太擔心形式。

So Black Lives Matter was started by three young Black feminists.

所以，黑人生命至上是由三個年輕的黑人女權主義者發起的。

You know, that was their creation

你知道，那是他們創造的

that is beginning to change much that needs to be changed.

是開始改變很多需要改變的。

And they just assumed

而他們只是假設

that of course they were there as three young Black feminists.

當然，他們在那裡 作為三個年輕的黑人女權主義者，

PM: And in the early days of the women's movement

PM。在婦女運動的早期階段

and continuing all the way through,

並一直持續下去。

one of the ways that we have learned to talk to each other

我們學會了互相交流的方式之一。

about difficult issues in which we may have disagreements,

關於我們可能有分歧的困難問題。

were sort of the talking circles or the consciousness raising,

是那種說話的圈子或意識的提高。

but is this something we could do

但這是我們可以做的事情

to begin to build back the bridges between us?

開始建立我們之間的橋樑？

GS: You know, I regret the emphasis on divisions,

GS。你知道，我很遺憾地強調劃分。

because we are more unified than any other movement in history.

因為我們比歷史上任何其他運動都更團結。

So I think we ought to celebrate that fact.

所以我認為我們應該慶祝這個事實。

And it comes out of talking circles as you point out,

而這是你指出的談話圈出來的。

which used to be called consciousness raising groups.

過去被稱為提高意識的團體。

And it just means that you sit in a circle,

而這只是意味著，你坐在一個圓圈裡。

as Native Americans taught us long ago,

正如美國土著人很久以前教我們的那樣。

and you each get to speak in turn --

你們每個人都可以輪流發言 --

Native Americans passed around a talking stick --

土著美國人傳來了一根會說話的棍子 --

and everybody has to listen while each person --

每個人都要聽，而每個人 -

and in that way, you say unsayable things

這樣一來，你就會說出一些不可告人的話來

and somebody on the other side of the circle says,

而圓圈的另一邊有人說：

"Oh, I've experienced that too."

"哦，我也有過這樣的經歷。"

And you discover what is shared

你會發現什麼是共享

and also, you discover how you can help each other.

同時，你也發現瞭如何能互相幫助。

There's no substitute for those kinds of talking circles.

這種話語圈是無法替代的。

PM: I want to be the first to volunteer with you, Gloria,

PM。我想成為第一個和你一起做志願者的人，Gloria。

to start the talking circles and passing the talking sticks again.

以開始說話圈，再傳遞說話棒。

One of the surprising things that people who come into your presence

人們來到你的面前時，其中一件令人驚訝的事情就是

are always surprised to find out what a great sense of humor you have.

總是驚訝地發現你有多大的幽默感。

And one of my favorite books of the many you have written

也是我最喜歡的一本書 在你寫的眾多書中的一本

sits by my bedside,

坐在我的床邊。

and the title of it -- forgive me those who might not like bad language --

和它的標題 -- 原諒我，那些可能不喜歡說髒話的人 -- --

the title is "The Truth Will Set You Free, But First It Will Piss You Off!"

題目是 "真相會讓你自由，但首先會讓你生氣！"

So I'm wondering now what truth is setting you free

所以我現在想知道是什麼真相讓你獲得自由？

and what continues to piss you off?

是什麼讓你繼續生氣？

GS: Well, actually, right at this moment,

GS。事實上，就在這個時候。

I mean, the truth is COVID --

我的意思是，事實是COVID --

you know, and we understand that is a universal experience

你知道，我們明白，這是一個普遍的經驗。

and danger we're all dealing with,

和危險，我們都在處理。

and what pisses me off is that we don't use that experience

而讓我生氣的是，我們不使用這種經驗。

in the positive sense.

在積極的意義上。

In the sense that we learn from dangers

在我們從危險中學習的意義上

as well as from accomplishments.

以及從成績。

It pisses me off that this is not used in a positive way

這讓我很生氣，因為這不是用在正面的。

to overcome the idea of categories of human beings

以克服人的類別觀念。

or of national boundaries or of countries.

或國家邊界或國家的邊界。

I mean, we're all here on Spaceship Earth.

我的意思是，我們都在這裡的宇宙飛船地球。

(Laughs)

（笑）

We're all citizens of Spaceship Earth, and COVID knows that,

我們都是太空梭地球的公民，COVID知道這一點。

so it should help to teach us that.

所以它應該有助於教導我們。

PM: And as we're looking at our current reality,

PM。而當我們看到我們目前的現實，

we've seen yet another great milestone for women,

我們已經看到了女性的又一個偉大的里程碑。

in this country for sure,

在這個國家肯定。

with the newly elected Vice President Kamala Harris,

與新當選的副總統卡馬拉-哈里斯。

who said in her speech, you know,

她在演講中說，你知道，

"I may be the first, but I won't be the last,"

"我可能是第一個，但我不會是最後一個，"

and I think of the many times that you and I and others have said that.

我想起你我和別人說過很多次。

What difference will it make,

這有什麼區別呢。

in our country and around the world,

在我國和世界各地。

when there are more women in all leadership positions,

當有更多婦女擔任所有領導職務時；

what are our differences as leaders?

作為領導者，我們有什麼不同？

GS: Well, I mean for one thing,

GS:嗯，我的意思是一件事。

we will have the advantage of using all of human intelligence

人盡其才，才盡其用

instead of only a small portion of it;

而不是隻佔其中一小部分。

this would be a good thing.

這將是一件好事。

And we will also allow children

我們還將允許孩子

to see themselves as leaders universally,

將自己視為普遍的領導者。

instead of just one small group.

而不僅僅是一個小團體。

Because right now, when kids look at leaders,

因為現在孩子們看上司的時候。

they don't necessarily see themselves.

他們不一定能看到自己。

PM: When we look at you, we see a leader, Gloria,

下午。當我們看著你的時候，我們看到了一個領導者，格洛麗亞。

and there are so many things that you could point to with pride,

有這麼多的事情，你可以自豪地指出。

although I know you don't.

雖然我知道你不知道

But what is it that motivates you

但是，你的動力是什麼呢？

or keeps you on the path onward in those moments of doubt,

或讓你在那些疑惑的時刻繼續前行。

or the times when things look bleak or there are fears,

或事情看起來很不樂觀或有恐懼的時候。

or do you ever fear,

或者你是否曾經害怕。

ever feel those feelings?

有過這種感覺嗎？

GS: No, of course I fear, I mean, definitely.

GS。不，我當然害怕，我的意思是，肯定。

But as the slogan goes,

但正如口號所說。

"Follow the fear and do it anyway.

"跟著恐懼走，無論如何都要做。

Fear is a sign of growth."

恐懼是成長的標誌。"

(Laughs)

（笑）

It's a good thing, right?

這是件好事，對吧？

PM: Right.

PM。好的。

GS: I'm so inspired by young women,

GS。我很受年輕女性的啟發。

I mean, I keep feeling

我的意思是，我一直覺得

as if I just had to wait for some of my friends to be born.

彷彿我只需要等待我的一些朋友出生。

And to see that this is profoundly

而看到這一點是深刻的

a global movement, as it always has been.

一如既往的全球運動。

I mean, you know, even the response to the march right after the inauguration

我的意思是，你知道，甚至對遊行的反應 右後就職典禮

of the current president, in every --

現任總統，在每一個 -- --

Latin America, Africa, you know, were marching together.

拉美，非洲，你知道，是一起前進的。

It really has become a global movement,

這真的已經成為一場全球性的運動。

thanks in large part to technology,

這在很大程度上要歸功於技術。

because we can see each other, as we are now,

因為我們可以看到對方，就像我們現在一樣。

and also just to the contagion of the idea of freedom, you know.

也只是對自由思想的傳染，你知道的。

If women spend nine months being pregnant and caring for a child,

如果女性用九個月的時間懷孕和照顧孩子。

why isn't it that men are responsible

豈不都是男人的責任

for spending that much more than half the time

一半以上的時間

taking care of the child, hello?

照顧孩子，喂？

(Laughs)

（笑）

Logic is in the eye of the logician, right?

邏輯是在邏輯學家的眼睛裡，對嗎？

(Laughs)

（笑）

So you know, wherever you look,

所以你知道，無論你在哪裡看。

there's just a discovery of freedom, of common sense, of companionship.

只是發現了自由，常識，同伴。

PM: Is there,

PM。是否有：

of all the things in your life,

在你生命中的所有事情中。

what has been the greatest source of confidence building and inspiration?

樹立信心和靈感的最大來源是什麼？

Is it the global sisterhood that you've built around the world?

是你在世界各地建立的全球姐妹情誼嗎？

GS: Well, it's just other women.

GS:嗯，這只是其他的女人。

I mean, I would not have been able to ever conquer

我的意思是，我不會一直能夠征服

my fear of public speaking,

我對公眾演講的恐懼。

which is where we started out,

這是我們開始的地方。

if it hadn't been for my fearless friend,

如果不是因為我那無畏的朋友。

Dorothy Pitman Hughes,

Dorothy Pitman Hughes,

you know, for doing it together.

你知道，因為一起做。

So you know, it's learning from each other,

所以你知道，這是互相學習。

and just remembering to ask, really,

而只是記得問，真的。

because the help is there,

因為幫助就在那裡。

the inspiration is there,

靈感就在那裡。

the sense of community is there,

社區感是存在的。

and I hope that technology can help us in this way,

而我希望科技能在這方面幫助我們。

especially because for women, that's important,

尤其是對女性來說，這很重要。

because we can communicate in safety.

因為我們可以安全地交流。

But I do regret and worry about the COVID emergency,

但我確實為COVID的緊急情況感到遺憾和擔心。

because we do also need to be together with all five senses

因為我們也需要和五官在一起。

in order to truly empathize.

才能真正感同身受。

So I look forward to the day

所以我期待著這一天的到來

when you and I can once again be in the same room.

當你和我可以再一次在同一個房間裡。

PM: Well, you and I have been in a lot of the same rooms,

PM。你和我在同一個房間裡呆過很多次。

and even when you're not in the same room with women everywhere,

甚至當你不在同一個房間裡，到處都是女人。

you have inspired them, Gloria.

你啟發了他們，格洛麗亞。

And to see the full and total story,

而要看完整的全部故事。

well, at least part of the full and total story,

好吧，至少是完整的部分和總的故事。

the movie has been made about Gloria's life.

電影是關於Gloria的生活。

It's called "The Glorias," based on her book "My Life on the Road,"

這本書叫 "歌頌"，是根據她的 "我在路上的生活 "一書改編的。

which is certainly the way you've spent your life,

這肯定是你的生活方式。

and it's available for livestreaming on Amazon Prime

並可在亞馬遜Prime上進行直播。

and I do highly recommend it.

我強烈推薦它。

Gloria, thank you for your work,

Gloria，謝謝你的工作。

for your life,

為了你的生活。

for the fearless way in which you have led us all forward,

為你帶領我們大家前進的無畏方式。

and one last next step for moving onward from you?

以及下一步從你身上繼續前進的最後一步？

What advice or counsel?

什麼意見或建議？

GS: Ah.

GS：啊。

Just do it.

就這樣做吧。

(Laughs)

（笑）

You know, I think we kind of wait for instructions from up there,

你知道，我認為我們有點等待 從上面的訓示。

or we worry or something,

或者我們擔心什麼的。

and you know, if we just get up in the morning and say,

你知道，如果我們只是起床 在早晨和說，

"OK, I'm going to do this,

"好的，我要做這件事。

and I'm going to get in touch with three or four other people,"

而且我還會和其他三四個人取得聯繫"。

and just think of change as a tree, you know --

只是認為變化作為一棵樹，你知道 -

it doesn't grow from the top down,

它不會自上而下地生長。

so we shouldn't be waiting for somebody to tell us what to do.

所以，我們不應該等待 有人告訴我們該怎麼做。

It grows from the bottom up,

它是自下而上生長的。

and we are the roots of change.

而我們是變革的根基。

PM: We are bearing the roots of your work, Gloria, with gratitude.

下午。格洛麗亞，我們對你的工作充滿感激。

Thank you very much for joining us for TEDWomen 2020.

非常感謝大家加入我們TEDWomen 2020的活動。

GS: No, and thank you for bringing women together,

不，謝謝你把婦女聚集在一起，不，謝謝你把婦女聚集在一起。

which is the magic.

這就是神奇。

Thank you.

謝謝你了