The US opposes the 1200 kilometer pipeline on its threatened to impose sanctions on companies involved in the project, which is nearly finished.

美國反對1200公里長的管道，因為它威脅要對參與該項目的公司實施制裁，該項目已接近尾聲。

Washington says North Stream two will make Europe more dependent on Russian gas deliveries, and it will allow Russia to cut off supplies to countries like Ukraine.

華盛頓表示，北溪二號將使歐洲更加依賴俄羅斯的天然氣供應，它將允許俄羅斯切斷對烏克蘭等國的供應。

A.

A.

Biden's team has already spoken out against the project, saying President Biden will seek to strengthen Europe's energy independence, but he will continue to impose or post North Stream two as a fundamentally bad deal for Europe.

拜登的團隊已經公開反對該項目，稱拜登總統將尋求加強歐洲的能源獨立性，但他將繼續強加或張貼北溪二號，認為這對歐洲來說是一個根本性的壞交易。

For more.

欲知更多。

Let's bring in Benjamin Schmidt.

讓我們請出本傑明-施密特。

He's a former European energy security adviser at the US Department of State on he's a postdoctoral fellow at Harvard University.

他是美國國務院的前歐洲能源安全顧問，他是哈佛大學的博士後研究員。

Good to have you with us on this program, So please, can you explain to us Why is Washington so worried about Europe's energy security?

很高興你能參加我們的節目，請你給我們解釋一下 為什麼華盛頓如此擔心歐洲的能源安全？

Well, good early morning, Monica.

早晨好，莫妮卡

It's great to be on Deutsche.

很高興能加入德國隊

Avella is always.

阿芙拉總是。

I'm glad that you had the belt and road Initiative from China is a is a lead into this story because really, there's a lot of synergies between what what Russia does with Visa Vee Energy?

我很高興你有一帶一路倡議，從中國是一個是一個領先到這個故事，因為真的，有很多之間的協同作用，什麼俄羅斯與Visa Vee能源？

Uh, infrastructure deals like Nord Stream two on what China is doing with critical infrastructure around the world.

呃，像北溪這樣的基礎設施交易，二是關於中國在全球範圍內的關鍵基礎設施方面所做的事情。

It's not debt trap diplomacy when it comes to Moscow, but it is influenced projection.

在莫斯科問題上，這不是債務陷阱外交，但這是受影響的投射。

And the U.

而U。

S is indeed concerned with Europe's energy security because it's fundamental to the national security of our closest allies.

斯確實關注歐洲的能源安全，因為這關係到我們最親密盟友的國家安全。

This speaks directly to those concerns with Nord Stream two.

這直接說出了北溪二號的那些擔憂。

Since it was completed, it would hurt both the economic and strategic stability of Ukraine.

既然建成了，就會損害烏克蘭的經濟和戰略穩定。

It flies in the face of the European Energy Union's own concept on diversification away from Russian energy.

這與歐洲能源聯盟自身關於遠離俄羅斯能源的多元化概念背道而馳。

Resource is, and I think Mawr concerning in the past few years has been the fact that it provides a platform for Russian malign influence.

資源是，我認為Mawr在過去幾年中有關的事實是，它為俄羅斯的惡意影響提供了一個平臺。

Strategic corruption in elite capture across the West.

西部各地精英俘虜中的戰略腐敗。

On the truth of the matter is, it's not just the concerns from the United States, but many others across the European continent, not just pulling in Ukraine, but the United Kingdom, Canada, Sweden and Denmark have also spoken out within the United States, also also within the EU There are sort of different views on that.

關於事情的真相是，不僅僅是美國的關注，整個歐洲大陸還有很多其他國家，不僅僅是拉攏烏克蘭，英國、加拿大、瑞典、丹麥也在美國內部發聲，也在歐盟內部發聲 對這個問題有種不同的看法。

Uh, granted nevertheless, it is somewhat weird that one big nation tells ah, whole block off 27 member states what to do.

呃，儘管如此，一個大國告訴啊，整個街區27個成員國該怎麼做，這有點奇怪。

I mean, how would Washington react if the U turned around and say, Listen, guys, we don't like the way you do fracking or or look for oil in Alaska.

我的意思是，華盛頓會如何反應，如果美國轉身說， 聽著，夥計們，我們不喜歡你的方式做水力壓裂 或尋找石油在阿拉斯加。

How would that go down?

那會怎樣呢？

I mean, I think there is a lot of, ah, lot of concerns with the way that we do fracking and look for oil in Alaska.

我的意思是，我認為有很多的關注 與方式，我們做水力壓裂和尋找石油在阿拉斯加。

Those air those are legitimate.

那些空氣那些都是合法的。

Those are things that we should be talking about.

這些都是我們應該討論的事情。

Um, But when it comes to Nord Stream two, uh, there's really national security concerns that are fundamental to both the U.

嗯，但說到北溪二號，呃，真的是國家安全問題，這對美國來說都是基本的。

S.

S.

And across the EU.

而在歐盟各地。

Um, and many in Washington continue to hope that Berlin will ultimately just reject North Stream two on these grounds.

嗯，華盛頓的許多人仍然希望柏林最終只是以這些理由拒絕北溪二號。

Because the last time I was on Deutsche Avella, what we were talking about just a few weeks ago was that Germany itself was on the precipice of rejecting the project because of the Kremlin option.

因為上一次我在德國Avella的時候，幾周前我們就在談論的是，德國自己因為克里姆林宮的選擇而處於拒絕這個項目的懸崖邊上。

Opposition leader Navalny is poisoning, right?

反對派領袖納瓦尼是中毒了吧？

I mean, I know There was a lot of a lot of debate here.

我的意思是，我知道這裡有很多很多的辯論。

But so far Berlin is holding on to the North Stream.

但到目前為止，柏林還在堅持北流。

Two, uh, pipeline project on just briefly, if you would.

兩個，呃，管道項目上只是簡單的，如果你願意。

I mean, how does this boat for?

我的意思是，這艘船是怎麼做的？

Well, hopefully new relations between Europe between Germany and the United States under a Biden administration?

好吧，希望在拜登執政下，德國和美國之間的歐洲新關係?

That's a great question.

這是一個很好的問題。

First of all, we have to remember that opposition to Nord Stream two is bipartisan.

首先，我們要記住，反對北溪二號的是兩黨。

It's it's not tied to Mr Trump has been been the case of a of a lot of Nord Stream two proponents trying to make this a trump issue of guilt by association issue.

它的它不是與特朗普先生一直是一個的情況下，很多的北溪兩個支持者試圖使這個問題的罪證問題的王牌問題。

Of course, the detrimental policies of Mr Trump, including the withdrawal of troops stationed in Germany, uh, trade proposals that were damaging those all I believe will go away because they've been very unpopular.

當然，特朗普先生的不利政策，包括撤回駐德國的軍隊，呃，貿易建議，是破壞性的那些所有我相信會消失，因為他們已經非常不受歡迎。

Leaders of both parties in Washington.

華盛頓兩黨的領導人。

Um, but when it comes to Nord Stream two at its core, it's a national security issue.

嗯，但當它涉及到北溪二號的核心，這是一個國家安全問題。

Okay, Well, thank you so much, Benjamin Schmidt.

好吧，非常感謝你，本傑明-施密特。

And as you mentioned earlier for you, it is a very, very early morning.

正如你剛才提到的，對你來說，這是一個非常非常早的早晨。

A very early start to the day.

很早就開始了一天的工作。

So thank you for making time for us.

所以，謝謝你能抽出時間來陪我們。

Benjamin Schmidt, their postdoctoral fellow at Harvard University.

本傑明-施密特，他們在哈佛大學的博士後研究員。

Former European energy security adviser at the US Department of State.

美國國務院前歐洲能源安全顧問。

Thank you.

謝謝你了

Feeling dung?

感覺到糞便？

Yeah.

是啊。