BBC Learning English. I'm Neil.

BBC學習英語。我是尼爾。

And I'm Sam.

我是山姆。

Are you a saver or a spender, Sam?

你是儲蓄者還是花錢者，山姆？

Well, I'm trying to limit my spending

好吧，我正在努力限制我的開支。

right now because I'm saving up

因為我在攢錢

for a deposit to

的押金

buy a house.

買房子。

Saving money is not always easy - as we'll

省錢並不總是一件容易的事--正如我們將

find out in today's programme, which is all

在今天的節目中，我們將瞭解到

about 'thrift'. 'Thrift' is not a simple idea

關於'節儉'。'節儉'不是一個簡單的概念

to define. It's to do with living a simple

來定義。這與生活的簡單

life free from the need to constantly

逍遙自在的生活

buy the latest products.

購買最新產品。

Today's consumer culture encourages us

今天的消費文化鼓勵我們

to 'spend, spend, spend', but

要'花、花、花'，但。

it hasn't always

並非總是

been that way. The Victorians for example

一直是這樣的。比如說維多利亞時代

told people to 'save up for a rainy day',

告訴人們要'未雨綢繆'。

meaning to keep some money back

留點錢

in case of unforeseen emergencies.

以防出現不可預見的緊急情況。

But before we discover more about that,

但在我們發現更多的問題之前。

it's time for today's quiz question. If you're

今天的測驗題時間到了。如果你是

trying to save money you probably

為了省錢，你可能

know how hard it can be. So my

知道這有多難。所以我的

question is: what percentage

問題是：幾成

of people in the UK, do you think, have

在英國，你認為有多少人有

less than £1000 in savings? Is it:

不到1000英鎊的存款？是嗎？

a) 5%, b) 15 %, or c) 30%?

a)5%，b)15%，或c)30%？

Well, if I'm anything to go by

好吧，如果我是什麼去了

I'd say c) 30%.

我認為c）30%。

OK. Well, we'll find the correct answer out

好吧，我們會找到正確答案的好吧，我們會找到正確答案的

later. I mentioned before that 'thrift' is

後來。我之前提到過，'節儉'是

a difficult idea to define, so here's

一言難盡

Alison Hulme, a lecturer at

Alison Hulme，講師，在下列學校任教

the University of Northampton,

北安普頓大學。

explaining more to BBC Radio 4's

解釋更多的BBC廣播4臺的

programme Thinking Allowed:

方案思考允許。

There are two dictionary definitions

有兩個字典的定義

of thrift. The older of the two comes

的節儉。兩者中年齡較大的是

from the word 'thrive'

源於'興旺'二字

etymologically, and described thrift

從詞源上看，並形容節儉

as the ability to live well

如同生活能力

and to flourish, so it's

和繁榮，所以它的

that sense of human flourishing.

那種人丁興旺的感覺。

The more recent definition is

較新的定義是：

the one we're probably

那個我們可能

more familiar with which is about

較為熟悉

frugality. All of that said, it's

儉樸。說了這麼多，就是

been used historically

古往今來

of course by various people in various

當然，由不同的人在不同的

moments in various different

時代

places in very different

殊途同歸

ways and they've often had

的方式，他們經常有

a social or religious agenda.

社會或宗教議程；

It seems the oldest definition of 'thrift'

看來 "節儉 "是最古老的定義。

has nothing to do with

無關

saving money and is

省錢，是

connected to the verbs 'thrive' and

與動詞 "茁壯 "和......

'flourish' - meaning to grow

繁榮"--意思是成長

or develop successfully.

或成功發展。

It was only later with the Puritans - 16th

只是後來隨著清教徒的出現------16世紀

century English Christians

世紀英國基督徒

with a reputation

聲名遠揚

for strict discipline - that the meaning

嚴明紀律的意思

of thrift changed and became

勤儉節約的觀念發生了變化，成為

associated with

與...有關

frugality - being careful not to spend too

節儉--小心翼翼不亂花錢

much money or eat too much food.

很多錢或吃太多的食物。

The Puritans believed that being

清教徒認為，作為

frugal was a religious virtue and

儉樸是一種宗教美德，也是一種社會責任。

that people ought to

人們應該

save money in order to give

省吃儉用

to others in need.

給其他需要幫助的人。

Later on the meaning of 'thrift' changed

後來，"節儉 "的含義發生了變化。

again. During the Victorian era,

再次。在維多利亞時代。

it was connected

它與

to the idea of managing your own money

自己理財的想法

in order to be a responsible citizen.

為了做一個負責任的公民。

Throughout history then, there have been

那麼在歷史上，有

different versions of 'thrift',

不同版本的 "節儉"。

and this may be because

而這可能是因為

different religions or social groups

異教

had their own agenda - a specific

他們有自己的議程--一個具體的

aim or reason for

目的

a particular group to do something.

某一特定群體做某事。

For example, the Victorian

例如，維多利亞時代的

definition of thrift was based

節儉的定義是基於

on a social agenda about being

在社會議程上

a respectable member of society.

一個受人尊敬的社會成員。

Ideas about frugality and thrift changed

勤儉節約的觀念發生了變化。

again during the Second World War

二戰期間

when the public

當眾

was encouraged to avoid waste

被鼓勵避免浪費

so that every material resource

以至於每個物質資源

could go into the war effort.

可以投入到戰爭中去。

And in the post-war period, it changed

而在戰後，它改變了。

again as people's wealth

又如民脂民膏

and standard of living

生活水準的影響

increased. Here's Alison Hulme again:

增加。又是艾莉森-胡爾姆。

It's the idea that once people had enough

這是一個想法，一旦人們受夠了。

to meet their kind of

以滿足他們的那種

basic needs there was

基本需求

this kind of moral slide into consumerism.

這種道德滑向消費主義的。

It's not a view that I subscribe

我不認同這種觀點

to in a simplistic

簡而言之

sense myself - I think there's a very fine

我自己的感覺 - 我認為有一個非常精細的

line to tread here.

在這裡踩線。

There's no point denying

沒有必要否認

that, certainly in the developed world,

的，當然在發達國家。

there's been a rise

有增無減

in consumer capitalism, that's

在消費資本主義中，那是

just a truism, but thrift hasn't declined.

只是一個老生常談，但節儉並沒有下降。

In modern times, people's motivation

在現代社會，人們的動機

to save up and be thrifty

勤儉節約

declined once they had enough

衰落

to meet their basic needs - the

滿足他們的基本需求----

basic necessities needed to survive,

生存所需的基本必需品；

like food, clothes and

衣食住行

shelter and nothing extra.

庇護所，沒有額外的東西。

Alison mentions that once these

艾莉森提到，一旦這些

basic needs were satisfied,

基本需求得到滿足。

people moved away from thrift

人云亦云

into consumerism, the desire to buy

進入消費主義，購買慾望

'luxury' products which

奢侈品

were not absolutely necessary.

並非絕對必要。

According to some, this created

根據一些人的說法，這造成了

a moral slide - a decrease in the

道德滑坡 -- -- 減少

standards of behaving

行為規範

in good, fair and honest ways.

以善良、公平、誠實的方式。

The rise in consumer capitalism

消費資本主義的興起

we have seen around the world

遍地開花

is an example of a truism

是一個不言而喻的例子

- something that is so obviously true

- 明擺著的事

it is not worth repeating.

不值一提

What is worth repeating

值得重複的是

is the quiz question, Neil.

是測驗題，尼爾。

Yes, I asked you how many British people

是的，我問你有多少英國人

had savings of under £1000.

有1000英鎊以下的儲蓄。

And I said, c) 30%

我說，c）30%。

In fact, Sam, it's b) 15%.

事實上，薩姆，是b）15%。

So I guess I'm not such a bad saver

所以，我想我也不是一個壞的儲蓄者。

after all!

到底

OK. Well, today we've been talking about

好了，今天我們一直在討論...好了，今天我們一直在談論

the changing meanings of 'thrift',

'節儉'的含義不斷變化。

an idea connected

思想聯繫

to frugality - being careful

勤儉節約 -- -- 精打細算

not to spend too much money.

不要花太多的錢。

The original meaning of 'thrift' was

'節儉'的本義是

to flourish - grow or develop

發揚光大

successfully - but that

但這

definition changed as different religious

隨著不同宗教信仰的變化，定義也發生了變化

groups, like the Puritans, promoted their

群體，如清教徒，促進了他們的。

own agenda - aim or reason for a

本事--目的或理由

particular group to do something.

某個群體做某事。

In recent times, people's ability

近代以來，人們的能力

to meet their basic needs - the

滿足他們的基本需求----

necessities for survival

生存必需品

like food and shelter, have reduced the

食物和住房等方面的需求減少了。

importance of 'thrift', which

節儉 "的重要性，這

some believe has created

有人認為

a moral slide - a reduction

道德滑坡

in standards of moral behaviour.

在道德行為標準方面；

And the associated rise of consumer

而與之相關的消費崛起

capitalism is an example of a truism -

資本主義是一個不言而喻的例子--。

something that

東西

is obviously true and

明明是真的

generally accepted by all.

大家普遍接受的。

That's all for now. Join us again

暫時就介紹到這裡。再次加入我們

next time for more topical discussion

下次再談

and vocabulary. Bye for now!

和詞彙量。暫時再見!

Bye bye!

再見！