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  • and I've had this conversation on this show many times over the last few years.

    在過去的幾年裡,我在這個節目上已經談過很多次了。

  • I had this conversation with Howard Marks before he died.

    在霍華德-馬克斯死前,我和他有過這樣的對話。

  • On day.

    在一天。

  • He talked about this, and we've all seen the example that Portugal is with the decriminalization of drugs, which is different from what you're saying, but kind of.

    他談到了這一點,我們都看到了葡萄牙的例子,葡萄牙是與毒品非刑罪化,這是與你說的不同,但種。

  • There's kind of a few choices.

    有種幾種選擇。

  • It's the way it is now, which I think most people would agree is a mess.

    現在的情況,我想大多數人都會同意,這是一個爛攤子。

  • There is the decriminalization, the Portugal model.

    有非刑事化,葡萄牙模式。

  • And then there is your model on the Black Sea model of legalized it all regulated.

    還有就是你的黑海模式的合法化它都是有監管的。

  • All have it down to the corner stop and there's arguments for for all three.

    都有它的下角停止,三者都有論點。

  • Howard Marks actually said to me, he said, Brian, I have friends of mine That won't take something if it's illegal, if it's strictly illegal and they'll stay away from these things.

    霍華德・馬克斯對我說,他說,布萊恩,我有朋友,如果它是非法的,如果它是嚴格的非法的,他們會遠離這些東西。

  • And so critics of your plan might say, If my kid goes to boots and seize heroin on offer cocaine on offer, they might be more likely to take it if it's in that package now.

    所以責備你的計劃的人可能會說,如果我的孩子去靴子和查獲海洛因的報價可卡因的報價,他們可能會更有可能採取它,如果它是在該包現在。

  • That's what some critics would say.

    有些評論家會這麼說。

  • That availability might give more access to people who would normally stay away from those back alleys and those things that are illegal.

    這種可用性可能會讓更多的人獲得更多的機會,他們通常會遠離那些後巷和那些非法的東西。

  • Now, what do you say to that?

    現在,你怎麼說?

  • There may be a spike in usage after the drugs were legalized and they're regulated and their mawr readily accessible to all.

    在毒品合法化之後,可能會出現使用量的高峰,而且它們受到管制,所有人都能輕易獲得它們的毛利。

  • There may be a spike in usage, but because we I say we, the state, the government will raise billions and billions in revenue from the sale of these drugs.

    可能會出現使用量激增的情況,但因為我們我說我們,國家,政府將從這些藥物的銷售中籌集數十億和數十億的收入。

  • What that will enable is that our Children from primary school age will be educated about drugs.

    這將使我們的兒童從小學年齡開始就能接受有關毒品的教育。

  • It won't be a taboo subject which people don't want to go near.

    不會成為人們不願靠近的禁忌話題。

  • You know, my my youngest kids were educated at school away from cigarettes.

    你知道嗎,我的我最小的孩子都是在學校接受教育的,遠離香菸。

  • That all happened in school, on my kids, bearing in mind that my wife and I are foolish, filthy, smelly, idiotic smokers.

    這一切都發生在學校裡,發生在我的孩子身上,要知道我和妻子都是愚蠢、骯髒、臭氣熏天的白痴菸民。

  • My kids won't go anywhere near cigarettes.

    我的孩子不會去任何地方接近香菸。

  • It was educated out of them when they were that big, and they went to school.

    他們那麼大的時候,就被教育出來了,他們上學了。

  • Now we will be able to afford to do exactly the same with drugs.

    現在,我們將有能力在毒品上做同樣的事情。

  • Get in those schools, get to those Children early.

    去那些學校,早點找到那些孩子。

  • I'm not gonna say we'll end up in a drug free nirvana on in a generation, something we closed all the drugstores there because obviously we want that will never happen.

    我不會說我們會在一代人的時間內結束無藥可醫的涅槃,我們關閉了所有的藥店,因為很明顯,我們希望那永遠不會發生。

  • That would be rampantly naive of me.

    那我就太天真了。

  • Yeah, I had a gentleman by the name of Dr Carhart, who works at Columbia University in America and has a great Ted talk that's titled Let's Stop Abusing Drug Users.

    是的,我有一位名叫卡哈特博士的先生,他在美國哥倫比亞大學工作,有一個很好的Ted演講,題目是《讓我們停止濫用毒品使用者》。

  • And he implies or says states that as humans, we all like to perturb our consciousness, whether it's caffeine or going to the movies or alcohol or cigarettes.

    而他暗示或者說說明,作為人類,我們都喜歡擾亂自己的意識,不管是咖啡因還是看電影,或者是酒精、香菸。

  • But, you know, a lot of these legal drugs are drugs, caffeine and nicotine.

    但是,你知道,很多這些合法的毒品都是毒品,咖啡因和尼古丁。

  • Most people asked on a drug, but it is.

    大多數人在藥物上問,但它是。

  • We like to experiment with our consciousness.

    我們喜歡用自己的意識做實驗。

  • That's what we do, and we always will.

    這就是我們所做的,我們也會一直做下去。

  • And so there is no nirvana where people won't use drugs.

    所以沒有人不會吸毒的涅槃。

  • But we have this current state where you're saying most of the crime is somehow drug related.

    但我們現在的狀況是,你說大部分的犯罪都與毒品有關。

  • Somehow, whether it's money laundering, all of that, and you're saying that would be cut out if we did this?

    不知道為什麼,不管是洗錢,所有的這些,你說如果我們這樣做,這些都會被剔除掉?

  • What do you make much of much of its of its now very in mind that you would be taking organized crimes?

    你做了什麼多的多的其的其現在很在心中,你會採取有組織的犯罪?

  • Largest revenue stream away from them, so they were so quietly they're not gonna give it up without a fire.

    最大的收入來源離他們而去,所以他們很安靜,不火燒眉毛是不會放棄的。

  • But if you be organized crime on three fronts, you leave them pretty much We know where to go, and that is price, purity and availability.

    但如果你是有組織的犯罪在三條戰線上, 你離開他們幾乎 我們知道去哪裡,那就是價格,純度和可用性。

  • So you just beat them on in ALS those regards So those drug stores will have to be open 24 7.

    所以,你只是擊敗他們在ALS這些方面,所以這些藥店將不得不開放24 7。

  • You know those ones, like clumsily named drug stores, you know, So you beat them on availability, because if you close them at 2 a.m. The drug dealers will come out of 3 a.m. S.

    你知道那些,像笨拙地命名的藥店,你知道,所以你在可用性上擊敗他們,因為如果你在凌晨2點關閉他們,毒販子會在凌晨3點出來S。

  • So they have to be open.

    所以他們必須開放。

  • But petrol stations are, but also really, I mean, for example, London or the UK couldn't do this independently of the international community, could they?

    但加油站是,但也真的,我的意思是,比如說,倫敦或英國不可能獨立於國際社會來做這件事吧?

  • Because that would create a bunch of instabilities if it's legal here in illegal here.

    因為如果在這裡合法在這裡非法,那會造成一堆不穩定因素。

  • Portugal led the way with their decriminalization.

    葡萄牙率先實現了非刑罪化。

  • There wasn't a Europe wide 29 state kind of agreement there.

    那裡沒有一個全歐洲29國的那種協議。

  • Okay, Someone has to be a pioneer.

    好吧,總得有人當先鋒。

  • Someone's gotta grasp the nettle and set the example.

    總得有人加快腳步,樹立榜樣。

  • Canada and its legalization of cannabis, you know, they struck out for freedom in that regard and did it.

    加拿大和它的大麻合法化,你知道,他們在這方面為了自由而出手,而且做到了。

  • And it has its critics.

    它也有它的批評者。

  • I understand that but so many of the critics of of my standpoint there I say it our Mrs Miggins, who lives in the Cotswolds, perhaps in her lovely country cottage and is far removed from the streets of central London on our other great cities, where young people are losing their lives in increasing numbers.

    我明白這一點,但許多責備我的立場的人,我說這是我們的米金斯夫人,她住在科茨沃爾德,也許在她可愛的鄉村小屋,遠離倫敦市中心的街道,在我們的其他大城市,年輕人正在失去他們的生命越來越多。

  • On, she might read The Daily Mail, for example, on Go legalization Shock horror?

    上,她可能會讀到《每日郵報》,例如,在圍棋合法化震驚恐怖?

  • Never.

    從來沒有。

  • Well, unfortunately, Mrs Miggins isn't really fully briefed and aware of what's going on.

    不幸的是,米金斯太太並沒有完全瞭解情況,也不知道發生了什麼。

  • Andi, I have I would have a message for her, and that would be I would love to come to your cottage.

    安迪,我有... ...我有一個消息給她,那就是我很想去你的小屋。

  • Andi, have a cup of tea or a cup of coffee and a chat with you about it on.

    安迪,喝杯茶或喝杯咖啡,和你聊上幾句。

  • I can guarantee that where so ever she Maybe there's a complete stranger that I would be to that town village Hamlet, whatever it may be, I reckon with your half an hour, I could source whatever I wanted in terms of illegal drugs.

    我可以保證,無論在哪裡,她也許是一個完全陌生的人,我會到那個小鎮村莊哈姆雷特,無論它可能是什麼,我估計用你的半小時,我可以找到任何我想要的非法藥物的來源。

  • It's coming to your doorstep, Mrs Miggins, if it's not already there, courtesy of county lions drug networks being established drug dealers, a very inventive, they're always looking for new markets and new routes and new methods of smuggling, importation, Transportacion and all of that.

    米金斯太太,如果還沒有的話,它就會來到你的家門口,由郡獅毒品網絡建立的毒販,一個非常有創造力的,他們總是在尋找新的市場,新的路線和新的走私方法,進口,運輸和所有這些。

  • They're smart.

    他們很聰明

  • That's what they do.

    這就是他們的工作。

  • We need to deny them this multibillion pound industry.

    我們要拒絕他們這個幾十億英鎊的產業。

  • Okay, what don't you like about decriminalization?

    好吧,你不喜歡非刑罪化的什麼?

  • Even as a method of getting to legalization?

    甚至是作為一種走向合法化的方法?

  • What don't you like about the Portugal model?

    你不喜歡葡萄牙模式的什麼?

  • Why can't It's a halfway house.

    為什麼不可以,這是一箇中途之家。

  • Okay, It's a halfway house.

    好吧,這是一箇中途之家。

  • Come on.

    來吧。

  • I think it should be all or nothing.

    我認為應該是全有或全無。

  • So how do you grade Portugal?

    那麼,你是如何給葡萄牙打分的呢?

  • What?

    什麼?

  • What is it?

    什麼事?

  • What has worked and what has not worked there there.

    哪些地方行得通,哪些地方行不通。

  • Pioneers on bond in terms in terms of not penalizing and criminalizing problematic drug users.

    保釋金上的先鋒,在不處罰和不將問題毒品使用者定罪方面。

  • I applaud them endlessly for that again through the billions that we raise, that we're not only using primary schools for education, but problematic drug users can get the help they need and in so many cases, the help they want it's not for us to take tape will help, might be appropriate.

    我為他們無休止地鼓掌,再次通過我們籌集的數十億資金,我們不僅利用小學進行教育,而且有問題的吸毒者可以得到他們所需的幫助,在許多情況下,他們想要的幫助它不是我們採取錄音帶將有助於,可能是適當的。

  • But I guarantee you many, many, many problematic drug users want help.

    但我向你保證,很多,很多,很多有問題的吸毒者需要幫助。

  • They don't wanna be.

    他們不想成為。

  • They don't wanna be the prey of their dealers.

    他們不想成為經銷商的獵物。

  • They don't want to be in the living conditions that they're in.

    他們不希望自己的生活條件是這樣的。

  • They don't want to shorten their lives.

    他們不想縮短自己的生命。

  • They want to help.

    他們想幫忙。

  • We could afford to do that.

    我們有能力做到這一點。

  • This is about harm reduction on people's health as well as denying criminals control of that industry.

    這是關於減少對人們健康的傷害,以及拒絕犯罪分子對該行業的控制。

  • Okay, but the decriminalization is only half of the problem that talks really more about the users.

    好吧,但非刑罪化只是問題的一半,真正更多的是談論用戶。

  • But you still have the dealers, and that's and that's still going toe.

    但你還有經銷商,那是和那是還會趾。

  • The same issues pretty much are happening in Portugal.

    同樣的問題在葡萄牙幾乎也在發生。

  • And you're saying solve it all with one fell swoop?

    你是說一舉解決所有問題?

  • Yeah, because dealers still get prosecuted in Portugal.

    是啊,因為經銷商仍然得到起訴在葡萄牙。

  • You know, it's not now legal toe deal.

    你知道,現在的交易是不合法的。

  • You can still get arrested and brought drugs ever be legalized.

    你仍然可以被逮捕,並帶來了毒品曾經被合法化。

  • Yeah.

    是啊。

  • Oh, yeah, Yeah.

    哦,是的,是的。

  • The drug law reform movement in the UK is gathering pace every day.

    英國的毒品法改革運動的步伐正在一天天加快。

  • There are some wonderful people out there who make my opinions on.

    有一些優秀的人,讓我的意見。

  • It looked like something clumsily scribbled on the back of a cigarette packet.

    看起來像是在煙包的背面笨拙地塗抹著什麼。

  • You know, far brighter minds than mine who have really thought it out in considerable depth and slowly, bit by bit, politicians are coming on board, you know, a Ness MP Scottish Nationalist Party MP proposed a bill last week in Parliament starting to go down this route.

    你知道,比我聰明得多的頭腦,他們真的有相當深入的思考,慢慢地,一點一點地,政治家們都加入了進來,你知道,一位尼斯議員蘇格蘭民族黨議員上週在議會提出了一項法案,開始走這條路線。

  • Small, incremental steps personally I'd like to take one giant stride.

    小步快跑,循序漸進的個人,我希望能大步流星。

  • One giant leap for mankind.

    人類的一次巨大飛躍。

  • Perhaps to go right.

    也許是為了向右走。

  • Organized crime.

    有組織犯罪;

  • Your days are over.

    你的日子已經結束了。

  • We've got that industry now.

    我們現在已經有了這個產業。

  • They're moving into other things.

    他們正在轉向其他事情。

  • Anyway, They're going into online crime.

    總之,他們要進入網絡犯罪。

  • You know, Andre, so much cybercrime and all of that.

    你知道,安德烈,這麼多的網絡犯罪和所有的。

  • Some people are just determined A live, a life of crime.

    有些人就是決定了要過,犯罪的生活。

  • And so they will be forced into something else.

    所以他們會被逼到別的地方去。

  • It won't all be rosy in the garden.

    花園裡不會都是玫瑰色的。

  • And I know.

    我也知道

  • But in terms of the drugs industry, I would like us we, our government to control it rather than crooks.

    但就毒品行業而言,我希望我們我們,我們的政府能夠控制它,而不是金光黨。

and I've had this conversation on this show many times over the last few years.

在過去的幾年裡,我在這個節目上已經談過很多次了。

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B1 中級 中文 毒品 葡萄牙 合法化 香菸 遠離 孩子

控制藥品市場:為什麼政府應該對我們進行毒品教育--Peter Bleksley (CONTROLLING THE DRUG MARKET: Why The Government Should Educate Us About Drugs - Peter Bleksley)

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    林宜悉 發佈於 2020 年 10 月 15 日
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