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  • My journey away from violent extremism began 22 years ago,

    譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: nr chan

  • when I denounced racism

    我遠離暴力極端主義的旅程, 從 22 年前開始,

  • and left the American white supremacist skinhead movement

    當時我公然譴責種族主義,

  • that I had helped build.

    並脫離了我過去協助建立的

  • (Cheers and applause)

    美國白人至上光頭運動。

  • I was just 22 years old at the time,

    (歡呼與掌聲)

  • but I had already spent eight years, from the time I was 14 years old,

    那時我才 22 歲,

  • as one of the earliest and youngest members

    但我已經花了 8 年時間, 也就是從 14 歲開始,

  • and an eventual leader within America's most violent hate movement.

    成為最早也最年輕就加入

  • But I wasn't born into hate;

    美國最暴力的仇恨運動的成員, 最終還成了領導人。

  • in fact, it was quite the opposite.

    但我並非出生時就帶著仇恨的;

  • I had a relatively normal childhood.

    事實還完全相反。

  • My parents are Italian immigrants

    我的童年很正常。

  • who came to the United States in the mid-1960s

    我父母是義大利移民者,

  • and settled on the South Side of Chicago,

    他們在 60 年代中期來到美國,

  • where they eventually met,

    在芝加哥的南區安頓下來,

  • and opened a small beauty shop.

    他們在那裡相識,

  • Right after I was born, things got a little bit more difficult.

    開了一間小型美容院。

  • They struggled to survive with raising a young family and a new business,

    我出生之後, 生活就比較困苦些了。

  • often working seven days a week,

    他們努力求生存,要養育小孩, 還要張羅新事業,

  • 14 hours a day,

    常常每週要工作 7 天,

  • taking on second and third jobs just to earn a meager living.

    每天工作 14 小時,

  • And quality time with my parents was pretty nonexistent.

    還要兼第 2 份、第 3 份工作 來賺一點微薄的生活費。

  • Even though I knew they loved me very much,

    和我父母相處的高品質時間, 幾乎是不存在的。

  • growing up, I felt abandoned.

    雖然我知道他們很愛我,

  • I was lonely, and I started to withdraw,

    成長過程我還是覺得被拋棄了。

  • and then I started to resent my parents and become very angry.

    我很寂寞,我開始退縮,

  • And as I was growing up, through my teenage years,

    接著我開始怨恨我的父母, 我變得非常憤怒。

  • I started to act out to try and get attention from my parents.

    在我十幾歲的成長過程中,

  • And one day, when I was 14,

    我開始會付諸行動, 試著得到我父母的注意力。

  • I was standing in an alley, and I was smoking a joint,

    我 14 歲時,有一天,

  • and a man who was twice my age, with a shaved head and tall black boots,

    我站在一條巷子裡吸大麻,

  • came up to me,

    一名光頭男子,年紀有我兩倍, 穿著黑色長靴,

  • and he snatched the joint from my lips.

    走向我,

  • Then he put his hand on my shoulder and he looked me in the eyes,

    他把大麻煙從我的唇間奪走。

  • and he said,

    他把手放在我肩上,盯著我的雙眼,

  • "That's what the communists and the Jews want you to do

    他說:

  • to keep you docile."

    「那正是共產黨員 和猶太人希望你做的,

  • I was 14 years old,

    讓你變得易馴服。」

  • I'd been trading baseball cards and watching "Happy Days" --

    我才 14 歲,

  • I didn't really know what a Jew was.

    我平常會交換棒球卡 和觀賞《歡樂時光》——

  • (Laughter)

    我搞不懂猶太人是什麼。

  • It's true.

    (笑聲)

  • And the only communist that I knew was the bad Russian guy

    是真的。

  • in my favorite Rocky movie.

    我只知道一個共產黨員, 是個俄國壞蛋,

  • (Laughter)

    是我最愛的電影 《洛基》裡的角色。

  • And since I'm here baring my soul with you,

    (笑聲)

  • I can reveal that I did not even know what the word "docile" meant.

    既然我來這裡向各位坦誠我的事,

  • (Laughter)

    我可以坦白說,我當時還不知道 「易馴服」是什麼意思。

  • Dead serious.

    (笑聲)

  • But it was as if this man in this alley had offered me a lifeline.

    我是非常認真的。

  • For 14 years, I'd felt marginalized and bullied.

    但,就彷彿巷子裡的這個男人 提供了我一條生命線。

  • I had low self-esteem.

    14 年來,我一直覺得 被邊緣化、被霸凌。

  • And frankly, I didn't know who I was, where I belonged,

    我的自尊感很低。

  • or what my purpose was.

    老實說,我當時不知道 我是誰、我屬於哪裡,

  • I was lost.

    或我的人生目的為何。

  • And overnight, because this man had pulled me in,

    我迷失了。

  • and I had grabbed onto that lifeline with every fiber of my being,

    一夜間,因為 這名男子把我拉進去,

  • I had gone from "Joanie Loves Chachi"

    我盡全力抓住了那條生命線。

  • to full-blown Nazi.

    我從《喬安娜愛恰奇》(節目)

  • Overnight.

    變成了全面的納粹。

  • I started to listen to the rhetoric

    一夜間。

  • and believe it.

    我開始聽他們的言論,

  • I started to watch very closely as the leaders of this organization

    並相信它。

  • would target vulnerable young people who felt marginalized

    我開始近距離觀看 這個組織的領導人,

  • and then draw them in with promises of paradise

    看他們針對覺得 被邊緣化的脆弱年輕人,

  • that were broken.

    用被破碎的天堂承諾

  • And then I started to recruit myself.

    吸引他們。

  • I started to do that by making white-power music.

    接著,我自己也開始招募新人。

  • And soon, I became the leader of that infamous organization

    我的做法是去做白人力量的音樂。

  • that was led by that man in that alley

    很快的,我就成了 那聲名狼籍的組織的領導人。

  • who recruited me that day,

    原本領導該組織的人,

  • who was America's first neo-Nazi skinhead and who had radicalized me.

    就是那天在巷子裡招募我的人,

  • For the next eight years,

    他是美國第一個新納粹光頭黨員, 也是他讓我變偏激的。

  • I believed the lies that I had been fed.

    接下來的 8 年,

  • And though I saw no evidence of it whatsoever,

    我相信那些餵給我的謊言。

  • I didn't hesitate to blame every Jewish person in the world

    雖然我都沒看到什麼證據,

  • for what I thought was a white, European genocide

    我也毫不猶豫地責怪 世界上的每一個猶太人,

  • being promoted by them through a multiculturalist agenda.

    我以為有場歐洲白人大屠殺

  • I blamed people of color

    是他們透過多文化議程來推動的。

  • for the crime and violence and the drugs in the city,

    我怪罪有色人種,

  • completely neglecting the fact that I was committing acts of violence

    認為城市中的犯罪、 暴力、毒品是他們造成的,

  • on a daily basis,

    我完全忽視了我自己 也在做出暴力行為,

  • and that in many cases,

    且每天都做。

  • it was white supremacists who were funneling drugs

    我也忽視許多案例中,

  • into the inner cities.

    是白人至上主義者

  • And I blamed immigrants

    讓毒品流入內都市。

  • for taking jobs from white Americans,

    我還怪罪移民者,

  • completely neglecting the fact that my parents were hardworking immigrants

    他們搶走了白種美國人的工作,

  • who struggled to survive,

    我完全忽視了我父母 就是辛勤工作的移民者,

  • despite not getting help from anybody else.

    他們努力求生存,

  • For the next eight years,

    儘管沒有得到任何人的協助。

  • I saw friends die,

    接下來的 8 年,

  • I saw others go to prison and inflict untold pain

    我看見朋友死亡,

  • on countless victims and their families' lives.

    我看見其他人入獄, 他們把無法形容的痛苦

  • I heard horrific stories from young women in the movement,

    帶入無數的受害者 及其家人的人生中。

  • who'd been brutally raped by the very men they were conditioned to trust,

    在運動中,我聽到年輕女性 訴說很恐怖的故事,

  • and I myself committed acts of violence against people,

    她們被殘忍地強暴, 而兇手是自己被訓練去信任的男人,

  • solely for the color of their skin,

    我自己也對人做出暴力行為,

  • who they loved,

    只因為他們的膚色、

  • or the god that they prayed to.

    因為他們愛的人,

  • I stockpiled weapons for what I thought was an upcoming race war.

    或因為他們向哪個神禱告。

  • I went to six high schools;

    我儲備武器,因為我 以為有種族戰爭要到來。

  • I was kicked out of four of them,

    我換過 6 間高中;

  • one of them, twice.

    其中 4 間把我開除,

  • And 25 years ago, I wrote and performed racist music

    有一間還開除我 2 次。

  • that found its way to the internet decades later

    25 年前,我會寫 也會唱種族主義音樂,

  • and partially inspired a young white nationalist

    數十年後,這音樂在網路上流傳,

  • to walk into a sacred Charleston, South Carolina, church

    部分鼓舞了一位年輕的 白人國家主義者

  • and senselessly massacre nine innocent people.

    走進南卡羅萊納州 查爾斯頓的一間神聖教堂,

  • But then my life changed.

    毫無感覺地屠殺了 9 個無辜的人。

  • At 19 years old, I met a girl who was not in the movement,

    但,接著,我的人生改變了。

  • who didn't have a racist bone in her body,

    19 歲時,我遇見了一個女孩, 她不在這運動中,

  • and I fell in love with her.

    她體內沒有一點點種族主義成份,

  • And at 19, we got married,

    我愛上了她。

  • and we had our first son.

    19 歲時,我們結婚了,

  • And when I held my son in my arms in the delivery room that day,

    我們有了第一個兒子。

  • not only did I reconnect with some of the innocence that I had lost

    那天,當我在產房中 用雙手抱起我兒子時,

  • at 14 years old,

    我不只是重新連結上了 一些我在 14 歲時

  • but it also began to challenge

    失去的純真,

  • the very important things that drew me to the movement to begin with:

    一開始吸引我加入 這運動的重要因素,

  • identity, community and purpose --

    也開始被我質疑,包括:

  • things that I had been struggling with as a young boy.

    身分、社群,和目的——

  • And now, I struggled with the concept of who I was again.

    這些都是我小時候掙扎著想得到的。

  • Was I this neo-Nazi hatemonger,

    現在,我再一次為了 「我是誰」的概念而掙扎。

  • or was I a caring father and husband?

    我是這個新納粹的煽動仇恨者?

  • Was my community the one that I had manufactured around me

    或者我是個有愛的父親和丈夫?

  • to boost my own ego,

    我的社會,是我身邊 這個被我捏造出來、

  • because I felt self-hatred for myself and I wanted to project it onto others,

    用來促進自尊、

  • or was it the one that I had physically given life to?

    因為我其實有著自我憎恨, 且想要投射到他人身上的社會?

  • Was my purpose to scorch the earth

    還是我得著生命的那個社會?

  • or was it to make it a better place for my family?

    我的目的是要把地球燒到焦黑?

  • And suddenly, like a ton of bricks hit me,

    或是要為了我的家庭 而讓世界成為更好的地方?

  • I became very confused with who I'd been for the last eight years.

    突然間,就像有一噸的 磚塊砸在我身上一樣,

  • And if only I'd been brave enough to walk away at that moment,

    我變得非常困惑, 不知道過去 8 年的我是誰。

  • to understand what the struggle was that was happening inside of me,

    真希望我當時夠勇敢,能一走了之,

  • then maybe tragedy could have been averted.

    去了解在我內在 所發生的掙扎是什麼,

  • Instead, I did compromise.

    那麼也許悲劇可以被避免。

  • I took myself off the streets for the benefit of my family,

    但我卻選擇了妥協。

  • because I was nervous that maybe I could go to jail or end up dead,

    我為了家庭好,讓自己脫離了街頭,

  • and they would have to fend for themselves.

    因為我很緊張, 怕我也許會去坐牢或是送命,

  • So I stepped back as a leader,

    我的家人就得供養自己的生活。

  • and instead I opened a record store

    身為領導者,我退了一步,

  • that I was going to sell white-power music in, of course,

    我開了一間唱片行,

  • because I was importing it in from Europe.

    當然,要販售的是白人力量音樂,

  • But I knew that if I was just a racist store selling racist music

    我是從歐洲進口這些音樂的。

  • the community would not allow me to be there.

    但我知道,如果這只是間販售 種族主義音樂的種族主義商店,

  • So I decided I was going to also stock the shelves with other music,

    社區不會容許我把店開在那裡。

  • like punk rock and heavy metal

    所以我決定我也要在架上 放些其他類型的音樂,

  • and hip-hop.

    比如龐克搖滾樂和重金屬,

  • And while the white-power music that I was selling

    還有嘻哈音樂。

  • was 75 percent of my gross revenue,

    雖然我販售的白人力量音樂

  • because people were driving in from all over the country to buy it

    佔了我總收入的 75%,

  • from the only store that was selling it,

    因為全國各地的人會 特別開車來買這類音樂,

  • I also had customers come in to buy the other music.

    這是唯一在販售這類音樂的店,

  • And eventually, they started to talk to me.

    但我也有客人進來買其他音樂。

  • One day, a young black teen came in,

    後來,他們開始和我交談。

  • and he was visibly upset.

    有一天,有一位年輕的 黑人青少年進來,

  • And I decided to ask him what was wrong.

    他看起來就很沮喪。

  • And he told me that his mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer.

    我決定問他發生了什麼事。

  • And suddenly, this young black teenager,

    他告訴我,他的母親被診斷出乳癌。

  • who I'd never had a meaningful conversation or interaction with,

    我以前從未和這位年輕的黑人青少年

  • I was able to connect with,

    進行過任何有意義的 交談或互動,突然間,

  • because my own mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer,

    我就能和他產生連結,

  • and I could feel his pain.

    因為我自己的母親也被診斷出乳癌,

  • On another occasion, a gay couple came in with their son,

    我能感受他的痛苦。

  • and it was undeniable to me that they loved their son

    另外還有一次,有一對同性戀 帶著他們的兒子進來,

  • in the same profound ways that I loved mine.

    在我看來,他們很愛 他們的兒子,無可否認,

  • And suddenly, I couldn't rationalize or justify the prejudice

    就和我深刻地愛著 我兒子的方式是一樣的。

  • that I had in my head.

    突然間,我無法再將 我腦袋中的偏見給合理化

  • I decided to pull the white-power music from the inventory

    或正當化了。

  • when I became too embarrassed to sell it in front of my new friends.

    我決定把白人力量音樂 從我的商品中拿掉,

  • And of course, the store couldn't sustain itself,

    因為我覺得在這些新朋友面前 賣這類音樂太尷尬了。

  • so I had to close it.

    當然,店無法經營下去,

  • At that same time, I lost nearly everything in my life.

    我得把店關了。

  • I used it as an opportunity to walk away

    同時,我幾乎失去了 我人生中的一切。

  • from the movement that I'd been a part of for eight years,

    我把它當作一個離開的機會,

  • the only identity, community and purpose that I'd really known for most of my life.

    脫離我參與了 8 年的運動,

  • So I had nobody.

    脫離我大半人生中唯一知道的 身分、社區,和目的。

  • I lost my livelihood because I closed the store.

    我無依無靠。

  • I didn't have a great relationship with my parents, even though they tried.

    我失去了生計,因為我把店關了。

  • And my wife and children left me,

    我和父母並沒有很好的關係, 雖然他們努力試過。

  • because I hadn't left the movement and disengaged quickly enough.

    我太太和孩子離開了我,

  • And suddenly,

    因為我沒有及早離開運動。

  • I didn't know who I was again,

    突然間,

  • or where I fit in

    再一次,我不知道我是誰、

  • or what my purpose was supposed to be.

    我適合哪裡,

  • I was miserable inside,

    或是我的人生目的應該是什麼。

  • and I often woke up in the morning

    我的內在非常悲慘,

  • wishing that I hadn't.

    我常常早上醒來時,

  • About five years in,

    我希望我沒醒來。

  • one of the few friends that I had was concerned about my well-being,

    大約過了 5 年,

  • and she came to me and she said,

    我少數幾位朋友之一 來關心我過得好不好,

  • "You need to do something, because I don't want to see you die."

    她來找我,她說:

  • And she suggested that I go apply for a job where she worked,

    「你得做點什麼, 因為我不想看你死。」

  • at a company called IBM.

    她建議我去她工作的地方 應徵一份工作,

  • Yeah, I thought she was crazy, too.

    那間公司叫 IBM。

  • (Laughter)

    是啊,我也以為她瘋了。

  • Here I was, a closeted ex-Nazi covered in hate tattoos.

    (笑聲)

  • I didn't go to college.

    我是個隱蔽的前納粹, 全身是仇恨的刺青。

  • I'd been kicked out of multiple high schools multiple times.

    我沒去唸大學。

  • I didn't even own a computer.

    我被不只一間高中踢出來不只一次。

  • But I went in,

    我甚至沒有電腦。

  • and somehow, miraculously, I got the job.

    但我去了,

  • I was thrilled.

    不知怎麼的,很神奇的, 我得到了那份工作。

  • And then I became terrified to learn

    我非常興奮。

  • that they'd actually be putting me back at my old high school,

    接著,我知道了 一件讓我很惶恐的事,

  • the same one I got kicked out of twice,

    他們要安排我回到我以前的高中,

  • to install their computers.

    我被這間高中退學 2 次,

  • This was a high school where I had committed acts of violence

    去那裡安裝電腦。

  • against students, against faculty;

    在這間高中,我做過暴力的行為,

  • where I had protested out in front of the school for equal rights for whites

    對學生、對教職員,

  • and even had a sit-in in the cafeteria

    我曾在這間學校前面抗議, 爭取白人權利,

  • to try and demand a white student union.

    甚至還在自助食堂靜坐抗議,

  • And of course, as karma would have it,

    要求要有一個白人學生會。

  • within the first couple of hours,

    當然,真的是命中注定,

  • who walks right by me but Mr. Johnny Holmes,

    在最初的幾個小時中,

  • the tough black security guard I had gotten in a fistfight with,

    走過我旁邊的人偏偏 就是強尼赫姆斯先生,

  • that got me kicked out the second time

    很強悍的警衛,我和他打過一架,

  • and led out in handcuffs from the school.

    這事造成我第 2 次被退學,

  • He didn't recognize me,

    而且是帶著手銬離開學校的。

  • but I saw him,

    他沒認出我,

  • and I didn't know what to do.

    但我看到了他,

  • I was frozen; I was this grown man now, years out of the movement,

    我不知道該怎麼做,

  • and I was sweating and I was trembling.

    我呆住了,我那時是個成人了, 離開運動也有好幾年,

  • But I decided I had to do something.

    我滿身是汗,不停發抖。

  • And I decided I needed to suffer under the weight of my past,

    但我決定,我得做點什麼。

  • because for five years I had tried to outrun it.

    我決定,我得要背負起 過去的重量,承擔起這痛苦,

  • I'd tried to make new friends and cover my tattoos with long sleeves,

    因為 5 年來我一直試著逃脫過去。

  • and I wouldn't admit it

    我試著交新朋友, 用長袖把刺青蓋住,

  • because I was afraid of being judged

    我不會承認它,

  • the same way I had judged other people.

    因為我害怕會被別人評斷,

  • Well, I decided I was going to chase Mr. Holmes out to the parking lot --

    就像我評斷別人那樣。

  • probably not the smartest decision that I made.

    我決定我要去追赫姆斯先生, 追到停車場——

  • (Laughter)

    可能不是個很聰明的決定。

  • But when I found him, he was getting into his car,

    (笑聲)

  • and I tapped him on the shoulder.

    但當我找到他時,他正要上他的車,

  • And when he turned around and he recognized me,

    我拍了他的肩膀。

  • he took a step back because he was afraid.

    當他轉身時,他認出我了,

  • And I didn't know what to say.

    出於害怕,他退後了一步。

  • Finally, the words came out of my mouth, and all I could think to say was,

    我不知道該說什麼。

  • "I'm sorry."

    終於,我開口了, 我只能想出這幾個字:

  • And he embraced me,

    「我很抱歉。」

  • and he forgave me.

    他擁抱了我,

  • And he encouraged me to forgive myself.

    他原諒了我。

  • He recognized that it wasn't the story of some broken go-nowhere kid

    他也鼓勵我原諒我自己。

  • who was going to just join a gang and go