It is just filling in those little gaps in your memory because this did happen quite some time ago and you forget little things.

And one of the sort of the thing that kind of gets washed away over the hissed over short time in the history of your mind.

And what you pick and choose to remember is relationship between this team in the front office and ownership and very early in this film, you established Krause as sort of someone who is at odds with the players and someone who is at odds with Michael Jordan himself.

And that must've been a very difficult thing to depict using those bites and knowing what you know about the story.

How did you sort of approach that when it came to his character in this bill?

Well, if there was one person I could interview for this film and didn't it would be Jerry Krause.

Jerry passed away four months before we started shooting, Um, but he obviously was at the center of that firestorm that created, um, the last dance scenario of that season.

Um, so he's a polarizing figure, and it's easy to cast him as the villain.

I consider him more of a foil to Michael's hero because I think you have to give Jerry credit.

And as you see later on the Siri's, when we when we go deeper into it, you'll see him get more credit and be credited with being the architect of those teams.

Jerry came after Michael Jordan, but everything you know about that Bulls dynasty besides Michael Jordan was put in place from a managerial perspective by Jerry Krause and Jerry Reinsdorf.

So we had to.

I felt I owed it to Jerry to tread lightly and, um, to involve him to have his voice in this doc as much as possible with archival footage.

But we also had to depict accurately how much they villainized him in that locker room.

And what an object of ridicule he was and how much Jerry had to endure from these guys who were, you know, the cool kits.

And they were gonna pick on the guy who wanted to hang out with them all the time on the bus, which he literally did.

Um, so it was.

It was a delicate balance of, um, giving Jerry some respect, but also telling the story in an accurate way.

I really like how you did that because, um, uniquely playing against those teams and then later being traded to the Bulls by Jerry Krause rest in peace, having a chance to spend time with him.

It was really unfortunate that he couldn't allow the credit toe happen on the court with feel it just so happened to be all time great in this happened, he left in 15 more, so that wasn't a good decision.

The Bulls lead MJ go.

He should be in ownership initially with Chicago.

Shouldn't have had to goto Washington.

They even play saying, with Scotty taking victory laps for not paying, and Ryan's Dorf allowed him to do that.

So it's really fortunate.

Did they feel regretful that it seemed like he's the one person that destroyed the largest dynasty in the history of N B.

A basketball?

I didn't sense any lingering resentment.

I think that, um in many respects the Isis thought over the years, which is one of many reasons why it's a good time to tell this story with enough distance and guys could be honest and you know conversations have been had.

I'm sure, behind closed doors for the last 20 years that has thought that ice, um, but at the time, certainly there was.

There was a lot of resentment towards the front office and towards Jerry Krause is office in particular.

You see Michael literally glance up and indicate that that's the most.

That's when he's asked by the press what's going to be the most difficult part of the season.

He looks up at Jerry's office, so Jerry was definitely the scapegoat for a lot of the tension that was in that locker room.

But Phil Jackson wanted credit to Michael Jordan is not as as vocal about deserving credit because it's it's demonstrable when he's on the court that he deserves the credit for the Bulls dynasty.

But there's a lot of people who had rightful claims to being the main reason why that team was what they were.

But Jerry Krause?

I mean, he gets booed at the end of episode one when he goes out to accept his fifth championship.

Crazy Solid seemed to be fun for the city of Chicago.

Every story needs a hero in a villain, and he was a polarizing guy and he certainly wasn't gonna be cast is the hero to Michael's villain, so there was no place to go but down for Jerry.

Unfortunately, well, you're watching the judge Kobe after show were presented by State Farm and Jason you mentioned this footage, this sort of unseen footage.

This documented this one season, and I want to know what it's like for you as a filmmaker.

When you first get your hands on it, I imagine probably digitally, and you're kind of going through it.

And you're seeing Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson and these sort of legends and just being a fly on the wall.

What was that first feeling?

Not even editing it, just getting her hands on it and seeing what kind of access you would have this bill.

It was just a lot of wild moments when we were screening this stuff.

We didn't even have an edit room yet.

We were screening it in an office on our laptops.

Um, but there's a certain mystique, and I think Jalen could speak to this to about guys from that era because social media is so ubiquitous.

Now, everybody knows what a lot of these stars backyards look like, and kitchens look like.

We know what the hallways in the locker rooms look like.

We've seen these guys out of uniform, maybe more than in uniform.

Back then, there wasn't that kind of access, and these thes kind of irritate docks were not done back then.

It credit Andy Thompson, who was Clay Thompson's uncle, on Michael Thompson's brother, who works for the MBA for having the idea to embed the crew and credit Adam Silver for having the foresight to say, You know what?

This is gonna be historic season.

We need to document this for posterity will do something with someday.

We'll now is that someday.

And I think even watching Jordan Rodman on the LAT pull down machine, something mundane.

Look at it now, and it's riveting because it's like I've never seen Dennis Rodman outside of uniform or or outside of a nightclub to see him in a different to see Michael Pollan in his car.

Get out of this car and walk into a door.

It sounds really mundane.

If you saw any of us doing it, today would be boring if you saw LeBron doing it say it might not be exciting, but to see these guys off the court back then, it just felt like we had, you know, something that no one had ever seen before.

It was palpable that we had something that people were going to love.

So it was exciting to say, All right, how can we organize this in the most entertaining way possible?

The next question I have for you is like after watching this film, and now that you know, you've seen these episodes probably so much they make you sick because all you can see is the imperfection.

But now you know that millions of people around the world have gotten to see it's finally out there in the world like you've best trending Right now.

It is a tragedy.

Drones of people right now is has seen U.

S Army training feel it.

You can see it on social media.

The responses in, say, number one trending everywhere.

What is that feeling as a filmmaker, knowing that you've put so many years of work into this and now it's just out and done at least episode war.

It's very gratifying.

Teoh finally have I mean, our team, not just me, but our entire team, for the last close to 2.5 years has put their lives on hold toe work nonstop on this duck so tohave it finally be out there is really exciting.

It's really gratifying that people seem to be responding Ah, in a largely positive way.

It's also a bit odd because we're still not done with it.

Um, literally were editing.

I'm editing in my apartment today.

Our editors, air editing all over the city and their apartments were still putting this together.

So, um, just the same as it's kind of odd to shoot and edit at the same time.

It's odd to be airing and editing at the same time.

Um, but it's great.

You know what?

Especially now.

It's a bleak time and like there's a dearth of programming out there, obviously.

But there's also a dearth of connection sports.

Bring that connection so much whether you're sitting and high five in the stranger next to you have never met before at a game or whether you're interacting with people online or you see someone wearing a hat of your favorite team, you give the guy, not we're missing that kind of connection now.

And what better place to establish that connection than through sports and through everyone's sharing, experiencing this story again?

So it's a privilege for us to get it out there and to give people, I hope just an hour.

Two of Escape In another wise dark time, Thanks for watching ESPN on YouTube for live streaming sports and premium content.

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