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  • KOPPEL: This is a program about China,

    「科佩爾探索」

  • so why are we beginning in Rolla, Missouri,

    『資本主義的人民共和國』

  • showing you a bunch of middle-age blue-collar workers

    本期節目講述中國

  • wandering around a job fair?

    為何從密蘇裡州的羅拉開始

  • Do you have any office positions open?

    為您展現一群中年藍領工人

  • -Currently, no. -No?

    在招聘會上徘徊

  • KOPPEL: Because China is where their jobs went.

    現在招聘辦公人員嗎?

  • China -- which relates how, exactly,

    -目前沒有 -沒有?

  • to Mexican migrant workers

    因為他們的工作去向是中國

  • picking cotton in North Carolina?

    中國究竟是如何

  • Well, that's where the cotton is going -- China.

    與在北卡羅來納州摘棉花的

  • WOMAN: Sit down, please.

    墨西哥移民工人產生聯繫的?

  • Boys and girls, l feel a little cold.

    因為這些棉花的去向是——中國

  • l think l need some clothes.

    請坐

  • KOPPEL: Don't worry.

    各位同學,我有點冷

  • That North Carolina cotton will be back

    我認為我需要一些衣物

  • as soon as Chinese workers have milled it

    別擔心

  • and cut it and turned it into...

    北卡羅來納州的棉花還會回來

  • CHlLDREN: ...a hat...

    因為中國的工人將其加工

  • a T-shirt...

    裁剪,製成了…

  • a dress.

    帽子

  • KOPPEL: lt won't occur to these children for some years to come,

    T恤衫

  • but they are being trained

    裙子

  • to compete in the global marketplace.

    在未來數年之內 這些孩子都不會想到

  • l used to work at Briggs & Stratton

    他們正接受培訓

  • and l'm unemployed and l'm looking for a job.

    以在全球化市場中與人競爭

  • KOPPEL: American unemployed, Chinese children,

    我以前在百利通公司工作

  • Mexican migrant workers.

    現在失業,在找工作

  • They don't know one another.

    美國的失業人員,中國兒童

  • They may not even care about one another.

    墨西哥移民工人

  • But as you'll see,

    他們互不相識

  • they're all having an impact on one another's lives.

    甚至對彼此毫不在意

  • WOMAN: A 7.9-magnitude earthquake hit

    但你們會發現

  • in midafternoon...

    他們對彼此的生活有所影響

  • MAN: ...report that schools and dormitories have all collapsed.

    第一部分『新潮之合』 字幕製作:[email protected]

  • WOMAN #2: ...puts the death toll at more than 55,000.

    下午三時左右

  • The spectacle of a profound national tragedy

    發生7.9級地震…

  • has a way of erasing differences.

    據報道,學校和宿舍倒塌

  • We can all relate to people who never had much

    死亡人數已逾55000

  • and who've lost what little they had.

    浩劫的國家災難

  • "There but for the grace of God," we say.

    也許會抹去差別

  • The earthquake struck a region of China's heartland

    我們心系那些沒有保障的人

  • that the government has targeted for growth.

    那些生活貧困,又雪上加霜的人

  • All we've been seeing these last couple of months, though --

    我們會說「願上帝慈悲」

  • what has engaged our attention and compassion --

    地震發生於中國的一個盆地區域

  • is the massive destruction --

    政府一直致力於在此發展種植業

  • the loss of so many homes, so many schools,

    然而過去的幾個月中我們的見聞

  • the death of so many tens of thousands,

    吸引了我們的注意,令人同情

  • so many children.

    損失慘重

  • We look at these scenes,

    家庭學校坍塌

  • and even those among us who feel no connection

    數萬人喪命

  • or even kinship with the Chinese

    痛失兒童

  • can empathize.

    看著這些場景

  • "There but for the grace of God."

    即使與中國沒有聯繫

  • We are all vulnerable,

    沒有親屬關係的人

  • and these days, we are all interdependent.

    都會同情

  • We'd been working for months in southwestern China

    「願上帝慈悲」

  • near where the earthquake struck.

    我們都很脆弱

  • Our base was the biggest city

    目前,我們相互依存

  • that most Americans have never heard of --

    我們在中國西南部工作數月

  • Chongqing.

    地點在震中心附近

  • That's where it is on the map, along the Yangtze River

    我們的基地是一個大城市

  • about 1 ,500 miles southwest of Shanghai.

    多數美國人都沒有聽說過

  • [ Horn honks ]

    也就是重慶

  • lt's a city with an attitude,

    這是它在地圖上的位置 位於長江沿岸

  • a place that has something to prove.

    上海西南方向1500英里

  • And once we've shown you

    這個城市有其生活態度

  • a few of the things that are happening in Chongqing,

    有其底蘊

  • you'll begin to understand why China and the United States

    待我們向您展示

  • might have a very difficult time

    重慶經歷的幾件事之後

  • getting along without each other anymore.

    您便會理解為何中國與美國

  • The signs of interdependence are everywhere.

    如果不再合作

  • The city is blossoming

    兩國都會很難熬

  • with the icons of American brands

    到處都有互相依存的標識

  • like Ford, Ethan Allen, and Wal-Mart,

    城市中到處都有

  • and that's merely scratching the surface.

    美國品牌商標

  • Love it or hate it,

    比如,福特,伊森艾倫,沃爾瑪

  • our economic futures seem irrevocably linked.

    這還只是表面現象

  • lt's a reality. Get used to it.

    無論喜歡與否

  • Let me set the scene for you.

    我們經濟的未來 都不可避免的聯繫著

  • A downtown square in Chongqing ringed with upscale shops,

    這是事實,接受吧

  • most of them selling products

    我來給您展示一個場景

  • that would be completely out of reach,

    重慶市中心購物廣場高檔商場雲集

  • unthinkably expensive for most Chinese.

    多數商品

  • And yet there is a new and rapidly growing class

    完全超出

  • of Chinese who can and do shop here,

    大部分中國人的購買能力

  • people for whom price is no object --

    然而有一個快速生成的群體

  • hundreds of thousands,

    可以在此購物

  • perhaps even millions of such people --

    對於這些人,價錢不是障礙

  • a huge, new, and expanding market

    幾十萬

  • for high-end Western goods.

    或是幾百萬這樣的人們

  • But China's new wealths and its growing middle class

    龐大,新型,日益壯大的消費市場

  • are still dwarfed by its hundreds of millions

    購買高端西方商品

  • who live just at the edge of survival.

    但中國的新貴和日益壯大的中產階級

  • The brutal truth

    仍然被幾億窮人所拖累

  • is that China can barely take care of its people.

    他們僅能維持生存的基本條件

  • There are simply too many,

    殘酷的現實是

  • which is why you see murals all over the countryside

    中國幾乎難以保障自己的人民

  • proclaiming the government's one-child policy.

    因為人太多了

  • That's been the law for decades now.

    農村到處都有標語

  • To this day, the government will impose a hefty fine,

    宣傳政府獨生子女政策

  • sometimes amounting for the poor to half a year's salary or more,

    這個法規已經實行了幾十年

  • on a couple that has a second child.

    時至今日,政府仍會

  • lf anything, that has made children

    對生育二胎的夫婦進行罰款

  • especially precious to the Chinese.

    金額也許會超出窮人半年的收入

  • Perhaps the worst unintended consequence

    如論其效果,就是使

  • of that one-child policy

    中國人更加珍惜孩子

  • is that the earthquake left so many families childless.

    獨生子女政策沒有預料到的

  • lf they're still young enough to have children

    最糟糕的後果

  • and if they can prove their loss,

    就是這次地震使得很多家庭痛失子女

  • those families will now be granted the right to try again.

    如果父母還年輕,可以生育

  • [ Shouting in Chinese ]

    如果可以證明自己的損失

  • They love children. They really do.

    這樣的家庭可以獲得 再次生育的權利

  • But their government is trying to cope

    他們愛孩子,真的愛

  • with the largest population in the world,

    但政府卻因為

  • competing for very limited resources.

    資源十分有限

  • You need to be able to look past the images

    控制人口總數

  • of regimented youngsters wearing the symbolic red kerchiefs.

    這些兒童帶紅領巾 接受嚴格管制

  • There are tens of millions of these children

    透過表面現象

  • and hundreds of millions

    這樣的孩子有幾千萬

  • of their desperately poor adult relatives.

    他們絕望而窮困的

  • They all need to be employed and housed and fed,

    成年親屬則達幾億

  • and Communism didn't do it.

    成年人要工作,生存

  • What's beginning to do the job is capitalism.

    但共產主義沒有做到這些

  • As for that massive population base of poor people,

    資本主義開始盛行

  • they are China's weakness and its strength.

    大量的窮苦人民

  • Call it the Chinese paradox.

    是中國的弱點,也是其強項

  • CHlLDREN: A...

    稱為中國悖論

  • B...

    A、…

  • C...

    B、…

  • KOPPEL: They are little engines of ambition...

    C、…

  • WOMAN: W...

    他們是雄心的小動力…

  • X...

    W、…

  • Y...

    X、…

  • Zed.

    Y、…

  • Okay. Very good.

    Z、

  • KOPPEL: ...all but vibrating

    好,很好

  • with the earnest desire to succeed.

    動力無窮

  • And all over China, from earliest childhood on,

    熱切期盼成功

  • English and computer literacy

    中國各地,從最早的童年

  • are being drummed into their little heads.

    就向他們的小腦袋灌輸

  • China has big plans for this generation.

    英語和計算機知識

  • Their skills will far exceed those of their parents,

    中國對這一代有重大計劃

  • but that's down the road.

    他們的技能遠遠超出他們的父輩

  • For the time being,

    但那還需要時間

  • China's most significant contribution

    從現在看來

  • to the global economy

    中國對全球化經濟

  • remains cheap, reliable labor.

    做出的最大貢獻

  • Line 'em up, snap it on,

    仍然是廉價可靠的勞動力

  • plug it in, check it out, send it off.

    排列,安裝

  • Snap it on, plug it in, check it out, send it off.

    插入,檢查,派送

  • Snap it on, plug it in, check it out, send it off.

    安裝,插入,檢查,派送

  • Snap it on, plug it in, check it out, send it off.

    安裝,插入,檢查,派送

  • lt's an endless, mindless, bottomless pit of a job.

    安裝,插入,檢查,派送

  • Anyone who's ever worked an assembly line

    這工作永無止境,無需智慧,無窮盡

  • can tell you about the pressure and the boredom and the fatigue.

    在流水線工作過的人

  • But if they don't like it -- and many of them don't --

    都能說出其中的壓力,無聊,勞累

  • there is a vast labor force of Chinese countrypeople --

    但如果他們不喜歡 事實上很多人都不喜歡

  • peasants and farmers --

    那麼中國還有大批農民

  • more of them than the combined populations

    大批勞動力

  • of the United States and all of Europe,

    其總人數

  • desperate to take their places.

    比美國和整個歐洲的人口數還多

  • And that is where it all begins.

    他們盼著能走上這些崗位

  • CROWD: 5...

    一切由此開始

  • 4...

    5、

  • 3...

    4、

  • KOPPEL: ln November of 2007,

    3、

  • a demolition company in Las Vegas, Nevada,

    2007年11月

  • fulfilled its contract

    內華達州賭城的一個拆除公司

  • to bring down the old Frontier Casino and Hotel.

    履行協議

  • lt was done in quintessentially American style...

    拆毀了一家賭場和賓館

  • [ Alarm blaring ]

    完成方式絕對屬於美國風格…

  • ...quickly, efficiently, totally,

    快速,有效,徹底

  • the debris loaded onto trucks and headed for landfill.

    岩屑落到卡車上,徑直傾倒

  • [ Shouting in Chinese ]

    這不是…

  • What this is not...

    是簡單的拆毀工程

  • ...is a simple demolition project.

    這是的中國方式的工程

  • This is a Chinese-style recovery operation.

    在水泥柱裡面

  • Buried within each of these concrete beams

    有長的,值錢的鋼筋

  • is a long, valuable piece of steel rebar...

    可以融化,重鑄,再次利用

  • ...that can be melted down, recast, and reused.

    如果勞工數量多,廉價

  • When labor is plentiful and cheap enough,

    完全可以

  • it makes good economic sense

    把鋼筋旁邊的磚敲下來

  • to chip the mortar off each individual brick

    這樣可以在新工程中再次利用

  • so that it can be reused in the building of a new structure.

    這些婦女平均一天掙一二美元

  • These women make the equivalent of $1 to $2 a day.

    敲磚,收磚

  • Chip off the mortar, gather up the bricks,

    背磚,扔磚

  • hoist them on your shoulder, dump them in the truck.

    敲磚,收磚

  • Chip off the mortar, gather up the bricks,

    背磚,扔磚

  • hoist them on your shoulder, dump them in the truck.

    這裡男人比女人掙的多

  • The men here make more than the women.

    但也只有三四美元 但他們認為收益不錯

  • Still only $3 to $4 a day, but they consider that good pay

    比在家掙的多

  • compared to what they can earn at home,

    在家基本沒有收入

  • which is essentially nothing.

    這些人是農民

  • Most of these people were subsistence farmers

    勉強養家糊口

  • who just barely fed themselves and their families.

    好年景時也許會存有足夠的食物

  • ln a good year, they might have enough food left over

    可以養一兩頭豬

  • to raise a pig or two

    可以屠宰,或是賣掉

  • that they could slaughter or sell at market.

    如果我在家,在地裡幹活

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    掙不到錢

  • lNTERPRETER: lf l stay home working in farmland,

    如果你在尋找建築方面的工作

  • l won't make money.

    那就是這裡

  • KOPPEL: lf you're looking for a job in construction,

    據估計這裡有150萬人

  • this is the place to be.

    從事與建築相關的工作

  • lt's estimated that 1 1/2 million people here

    這已經是個大城市 人口1350萬

  • are working on construction-related jobs.

    但這只是直轄市人口的一部分

  • lt's already a big city -- about 13.5 million --

    這裡面積相當於奧地利

  • but it's part of an enormous municipality,

    人口超出3000萬

  • a region the size of Austria

    接下來10到15年的目標

  • with an overall population of more than 30 million people.

    是將這座城市外擴…

  • The goal over the next 10 to 15 years

    將人口分散

  • is to expand the city out...

    直到重慶人口達到2000萬

  • [ Horn honks ]

    屆時1000萬左右的人民

  • ...and draw the people in

    將生活在農村地區

  • until Chongqing is a megacity of 20 million,

    但更大的目標是將重慶

  • with only 10 million or so people

    轉變為工業中心

  • left in the remaining countryside.

    國際工業與交易中心

  • But the larger goal is to turn Chongqing

    目前,本市已吸收可觀的美國投資

  • into an industrial hub,

    比如百利通公司

  • an international center of industry and trade.

    中國人流水作業

  • The city has already attracted significant American investment,

    製造美國引擎

  • like this Briggs & Stratton plant,

    這將我的生活完全顛倒了

  • where Chinese workers are now on the assembly line

    我得找新工作

  • building American engines.

    從前,引擎在這裡生產

  • WOMAN: This turned my life upside down.

    在密蘇裡羅拉的

  • l've got to look for a new career.

    百利通公司生產

  • KOPPEL: Those engines used to be built here

    工作沒了,我很難過

  • at this shuttered Briggs & Stratton plant

    但是做生意就是為了賺錢

  • in Rolla, Missouri.

    有幾個工作職位招聘…

  • l hate the fact that it cost me my job,

    這種遷移

  • but, you know, businesses are out to make money.

    對合作底線有益

  • We have a couple of openings...

    但嚴重傷害到一些工人

  • KOPPEL: And while the move was good

    尤其是年長的工人,本以為 可以在百利通公司退休

  • for the corporate bottom line,

    現在他們像誠惶誠恐的年輕人似的

  • it badly hurt some of the workers,

    需要在招聘會上為自己尋找飯碗

  • especially the older ones who thought they'd retire at Briggs.

    我找工作很不容易 因為我61歲了

  • Now, like awkward teenagers at a prom,

    截止到現在,我應聘的公司

  • they find themselves shuffling through a job fair.

    都說我資歷過高

  • lt's gonna be hard for me to get a job 'cause l'm 61 years old.

    這是「你太老了」的委婉說法

  • So far, every place l've applied for

    我叫帕姆·裡瑟

  • has said l'm overqualified.

    之前我在百利通公司

  • You know, the polite way of saying, "You're too old."

    帕姆·裡瑟在百利通公司

  • l'm Pam Leaser.

    工作了近11年

  • l'm a dislocated worker from Briggs & Stratton.

    顯然,她不太習慣找新工作

  • KOPPEL: Pam Leaser had been working at Briggs & Stratton

    她從未想過自己要找新工作

  • for almost 1 1 years.

    可是一天中國重慶的一個代表 給她打來電話

  • She's clearly uncomfortable shopping for a new job.

    他們配備了翻譯

  • She never thought she'd have to,

    我的老闆問我

  • until the day a delegation from Chongqing, China, came calling.

    能否向他們解釋

  • They had a translator with them.

    我的工作職責和工作方法

  • And my boss come up and he asks me

    我看著他說:「不能」

  • if l would care to explain to them

    我知道日後會失去工作

  • what my job was and how l did my job.

    這樣的事情還發生在其他

  • And l looked at him, and l told him, "No, l will not."

    百利通公司的職員

  • l just knew that down the road l was gonna be losing my job.

    那是在2007年9月28日

  • KOPPEL: Which is exactly what did happen

    吉姆,我不知道

  • to about 480 Briggs & Stratton workers

    你之前是開玩笑還是誇張

  • on September 28, 2007.

    但你說到了重要的一點

  • Jim, l don't know

    也就是我是密蘇裡工廠 人們最為憎恨的人

  • if you were kidding me before or exaggerating,

    真的嗎?

  • but you were talking at one point

    「最為憎恨」有點誇張

  • about being the most hated guy at the home plant in Missouri.

    吉姆·馬修負責管理中國重慶的

  • True?

    百利通公司

  • l think that "most hated" was a bit of an exaggeration.

    有很多人關心

  • KOPPEL: Jim Marceau runs Briggs & Stratton's operation

    我們在中國建廠的事

  • in Chongqing, China.

    認為會給美國減少很多工作機會

  • There are a lot of people who were concerned

    我們在這裡建廠是為

  • with us building a factory in China,

    低成本製造引擎 以便在亞洲市場推廣

  • that it would take jobs from the United States.

    建廠的目的不是為了減少美國的就業率

  • This plant was built so we could try to make engines

    這話沒錯,計劃本來如此

  • inexpensively enough where we could sell in the Asian market.

    但這些引擎對於中國

  • lt wasn't made to take jobs from the States.

    和亞洲其他地區還是難以負擔

  • KOPPEL: Which is true. That was the plan.

    所以現在的狀況是

  • But the engines remain too expensive for China

    中國工人在重慶製造引擎

  • and for the rest of the Asian market.

    之後增加成本

  • So now you've got Chinese workers

    遠渡重洋

  • assembling the engines in Chongqing.

    主要購買力仍是歐洲和美國

  • And even with the additional cost

    用於割草機

  • of shipping them halfway around the world,

    清雪機,發電機

  • they're still a bargain in Europe and the U.S.,

    這還只是

  • where they're powering lawn mowers,

    百利通公司 總產品銷量的部分去向

  • snowblowers, and generators.

    但重慶的收穫 就是密蘇裡羅拉的損失

  • What's involved is just a fraction

    最後一個引擎製作完成後

  • of the overall Briggs & Stratton operation,

    大家都走了

  • but Chongqing's gain was Rolla, Missouri's, loss.

    大家都想馬上離開

  • LEASER: Well, after our last engine was built,

    但我和幾個同事待到3點

  • everybody was gone.

    我想,這8小時的工資要掙到手

  • l mean, people wanted to get out of there.

    帕姆時薪11.17美元

  • But l was one of them stayed till 3:00.

    這在密蘇裡羅拉並非高薪

  • l thought, "They're paying me for my whole eight hours."

    在百利通公司 其餘三個總部地區也不算高薪

  • KOPPEL: $11.17 an hour is what Pam earned.

    但這工資可維持生活

  • Not a ton of money in Rolla, Missouri,

    事實上,百利通公司

  • or in the three other towns with Briggs factories,

    在美國保有

  • but it's a living wage.

    其90%的生產製造

  • The fact is that Briggs & Stratton

    在重慶創下的利潤空間

  • has kept 90% of its manufacturing

    可使公司保有競爭力

  • in the United States,

    勞動力成本是美國的

  • and that profitable plant in Chongqing

    5%、10%或20%

  • is helping to keep the company competitive.

    這能節約成本

  • The labor is, you know, 5% of what it costs in the States

    我以為在百利通公司很穩定

  • or 10% or 20%.

    我以為可以在此度過餘生

  • That's where you save your money.

    在此退休

  • Well, l thought l was really stable at Briggs & Stratton.

    現在我50歲了

  • l thought l'd stay there the rest of my life

    得重新開始,另找工作

  • and retire there.

    -很高興見到你 -很高興見到你

  • Well, now l'm 50,

    如何勸慰

  • and l have to start all over again looking for another job.

    在市場全球化浪潮中受到損失的人?

  • -Well, it's nice to meet you. -You too.

    也許你想徒步旅行 你徒步旅行過嗎?

  • KOPPEL: What do you say to someone

    如何勸慰

  • caught in the backwash of the global marketplace?

    世界另一端

  • You may want to try hiking. Have you done that?

    正努力抓住下一浪潮的人們?

  • KOPPEL: Or, for that matter,

    徒步旅行的基本工具很簡單…

  • to someone on the other side of world

    李丹17歲

  • trying to catch the next wave?

    父母是農民

  • The basic equipment you need for hiking is a simple...

    二人年收入總額不足600美元

  • KOPPEL: Li Dun is 17 years old,

    其中約一半需支付

  • and her parents are peasant farmers.

    李丹在重慶的這所寄宿學校

  • Their combined annual income is less than $600,

    的學費,食宿

  • roughly half of which goes toward the payment

    她生活在美國夢中

  • of Li Dun's tuition, food, and housing

    期待比父母預想中更好的生活

  • at this boarding school in Chongqing.

    這是美國最大,最著名的

  • She is living the American dream

    家具廠的布料間

  • of a better life than the one her parents have known.

    如果仔細看

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    會發現即使北卡羅來納州的伊森·艾倫

  • KOPPEL: This is the fabric room of one of America's

    也將中國製造的原料

  • biggest and best-known furniture manufacturers.

    併入供給鏈條

  • But if you look closely,

    成千上萬捆布料等待有朝一日

  • you'll see that even Ethan Allen in Maiden, North Carolina,

    被製成室內裝潢品

  • has integrated Chinese-made components

    中國製造

  • into its supply chain --

    中國製造

  • thousands of rolls of fabric awaiting the day

    中國製造

  • when they will be turned into custom-made upholstery

    然而棉花的產地

  • made in China.

    很有可能是北卡羅來納州

  • Made in China.

    我們所有的紡織廠都移至

  • Made in China.

    南美洲或是中國

  • Very possibly, though,

    林伍德·維克是他父親農場的主管

  • spun out of cotton from here in North Carolina.

    北卡羅來納州紡織廠所剩無幾

  • VlCK: All of our textile mills have moved overseas

    所以我們的棉花需要出口

  • either to South America or China.

    這個農場的棉花和煙草

  • KOPPEL: Linwood Vick is the foreman on his father's farm.

    需要出口

  • There are very few mills left in North Carolina,

    勞動力需要進口

  • so all of our cotton is now being exported.

    也就是墨西哥的合法移民工人

  • KOPPEL: The cotton and the tobacco grown on this farm

    我們雇傭墨西哥移民工人

  • are being exported,

    因為他們很可靠

  • and the labor force is being imported --

    工作完成的很好

  • legal migrant workers from Mexico.

    北卡羅來納州當地勞動力

  • VlCK: We use migrant workers from Mexico

    不想按工作表勞動 不想幹重活

  • because they are a reliable workforce.

    這工作很辛苦

  • They do an excellent job.

    當今全球經濟的基礎就是

  • Our local labor in North Carolina

    廉價勞動力

  • does not want to work the hours or do the hard work.

    也許是勞動力移至工作地點

  • lt's extremely hard work.

    也許是工作地點移至勞動力所在地

  • KOPPEL: That's your basic engine of today's global economy --

    目的都是尋找大量廉價勞動力

  • cheap labor.

    這家伊森艾倫家具廠製造

  • Either it migrates to where the work is,

    普拉特沙發

  • or the work migrates to where there is

    這家具很昂貴

  • an abundant supply of cheap labor.

    需幾千美金

  • What they are assembling at this Ethan Allen furniture plant

    基底部分,這個可手動的沙發腿

  • is what the company calls the Pratt Sofa.

    同樣是中國製造

  • lt's a pretty expensive piece of furniture --

    安娜·洛基特,23歲,做質檢工作

  • costs a couple of thousand dollars.

    我是伊森艾倫的監督

  • And the base -- this part with the hand-turned legs --

    基本上我修改細節

  • is also made in China.

    確保家具完美

  • Anna Rockett, who's 23, does quality control.

    其上沒有漏洞,沒有失誤

  • ROCKETT: l'm an inspector here at Ethan Allen.

    之後再送出廠房

  • Basically, what l do is l clip strings,

    安娜時薪約20美元

  • make sure the piece of furniture looks perfect, you know --

    相當於17歲的穆文清

  • doesn't have any holes in it, doesn't have any mishaps --

    的週薪

  • before we send it out the door.

    工作大致相同,都是質檢

  • KOPPEL: Anna earns about $20 an hour,

    她要檢查銷往美國的錄音機

  • which is roughly what 17-year-old Moo Wan Ching

    確切的說是銷往沃爾瑪

  • earns in a week,

    令穆文清困惑的是美國人

  • doing essentially the same job -- quality control --

    能買便宜的進口商品

  • on these boom boxes which are bound for the United States --

    而她買不起任何進口產品

  • Wal-Mart, to be precise.

    這使她覺得很不公平

  • What confuses Moo Wan Ching is that Americans

    在這裡,很昂貴 為何到了美國就便宜了?

  • get to buy cheap imports

    因為在中國,工人工資低

  • while she can't afford anything made outside of China.

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    你們賺的錢多嗎?

  • lNTERPRETER: That's what she feels is the most unfair thing.

    對,賺的錢多,對

  • lt's very expensive here, but why is in America so cheap?

    有多少?

  • Because here in China, people work for very low pay.

    很多

  • Oh.

    也許你應該做電視臺記者

  • Do you guys get high pay?

    你覺得怎樣?

  • Yeah. We get high pay, yeah.

    -她覺得可以 -嗯

  • How much?

    她說,在這工廠裡工作

  • Too much.

    是對她天賦的浪費

  • Maybe you should be a television reporter.

    對她天賦的浪費 我喜歡這句話

  • What do you think?

    而北卡羅來納州伊森艾倫的

  • -She thinks yes. -Yeah.

    安娜·洛基特基本上

  • Yeah. Because, you know, she says staying in this factory

    也是這麼想的

  • is a waste of her talent, actually.

    需要檢查很多細節

  • A waste of her talent. l like that.

    工作單調乏味

  • KOPPEL: Which is pretty much the way Anna Rockett

    但另有一事

  • back at the Ethan Allen plant in North Carolina

    蘭迪·史密斯製成的普拉特沙發

  • sees things, too.

    銷往中國重慶

  • lt's a bunch of different things that you have to look for.

    中國日益壯大的中產階級很富有

  • lt's kind of almost a very tedious job at times.

    他們喜歡美國的精良工藝

  • KOPPEL: But here's the kicker --

    我認為這樣很好

  • the Pratt Sofa that Randy Smith is working on here --

    我們在這生產家具

  • that's headed to China -- Chongqing, to be precise.

    可以賣給任何人

  • China's growing middle class has got plenty of money,

    這很好,我不反對

  • and they appreciate good American workmanship.

    然而中國與美國的

  • SMlTH: l think it's wonderful.

    貿易平衡

  • As long as we manufacture the furniture here,

    仍不協調

  • we can sell it to anybody we want to.

    美國從中國購買的商品 遠多於中國在美國購買的商品

  • That's fine. l have no problem with it.

    穆文清所在工廠的老闆

  • KOPPEL: The balance of trade, though,

    組裝數萬台DVD機和錄音機

  • between China and the United States

    他是臺灣人

  • remains totally out of whack.

    在加利福尼亞的橘郡工作了15年

  • Americans buy vastly more from China than the other way around.

    肖·麥特最大的買家是沃爾瑪

  • Moo Wan Ching's boss, the man who manages this plant

    沃爾瑪為何遠渡重洋

  • assembling tens of thousands of DVD players and boom boxes,

    來買中國產品?

  • was born in Taiwan

    現在我能做出的解釋是

  • and worked for 15 years in Orange County, California.

    這種DVD 我們給沃爾瑪開出的價錢

  • Matt Shaw's biggest outlet is Wal-Mart.

    全球最低

  • Why would Wal-Mart come all the way to China

    -全球最低? -對

  • to buy these things here?

    這就是全部原因

  • Because what l can tell you right now is,

    全球最低

  • today, this type of DVD player we provide to Wal-Mart --

    那麼說,你支付的 工人工資也是全球最低了

  • we have the lowest cost in the world.

    工資也是最低的

  • -The lowest cost? -Yes.

    我們要爭取更高的效率

  • l think that's the whole purpose.

    極少有美國公司能像蘋果公司一樣

  • So, the lowest cost

    懂得效率的重要性

  • means you're paying the lowest salaries in the world.

    公司因利用「中國組裝」的部件

  • lt means we have the lowest salaries.

    得到可觀的利益空間

  • lt means we have higher efficiencies.

    公司的設計理念和銷售方式

  • KOPPEL: And few American firms understand those efficiencies

    刺激消費者購買

  • quite as well as Apple.

    所以每個蘋果產品都有標識

  • The company boosts its bottom line with the huge savings

    「加利福尼亞蘋果公司設計」

  • that come with the label "assembled in China."

    如果有人花299美元買一個蘋果產品

  • But it's the company's design prowess and marketing savvy

    蘋果公司的利潤是80美元

  • that motivates their consumers.

    在中國大陸組裝配件的

  • That's why, for example, every iPod box carries the words

    臺灣公司利潤大約4美元

  • "Designed by Apple in California."

    蘋果的利潤創造方式

  • When you buy an iPod for $299,

    同樣適用於沃爾瑪

  • Apple makes a profit of $80.

    只是規模更大,利潤更低

  • The Taiwanese company that assembles the parts

    實際上,沃爾瑪的宗旨就是

  • in mainland China earns about $4.

    便宜買,便宜賣

  • The same dynamic that works for Apple

    這吸引了在北卡羅來納州

  • also works for Wal-Mart,

    維克家族農場工作的墨西哥移民

  • but on a much larger scale and at much lower prices.

    週六下午和周日

  • ln fact, it's the Wal-Mart credo --

    他們去沃爾瑪消費

  • buy cheap, sell cheap.

    也許是買日用品

  • And it's precisely what attracts these Mexican migrants

    衣物,或是給孩子買玩具

  • who work on the Vick family farm in North Carolina.

    沃爾瑪的口號是「天天低價」

  • Every Saturday afternoon and Sunday,

    這可成為經濟全球化的一個理念

  • they go to Wal-Mart and spend it,

    這些墨西哥移民工人

  • whether they're buying their groceries,

    是沃爾瑪的重要顧客群體

  • their clothes, or the toys for their kids.

    這一次,他們儲存物件

  • KOPPEL: Wal-Mart's slogan, "Everyday low prices,"

    為返回墨西哥做準備

  • could almost serve as an anthem for the global economy.

    如果他們買這樣的收音機 拿回去當作禮物

  • These Mexican migrant workers are one strand

    很划算——只要19.98美元

  • of a complex fabric that makes Wal-Mart possible.

    記得那個戴棒球帽的

  • On this trip, they're stocking up

    活潑而有主見的17歲女孩嗎?

  • in preparation for their return home to Mexico.

    她當然不會賺這麼多錢

  • And if they take one of these boom boxes home as a gift,

    而且她的老闆也賺不到

  • it's a good deal -- only $19.98.

    他知道沃爾瑪有幾項主要開銷

  • Remember that sassy 17-year-old

    他們得通過海路 將貨物從上海運到洛杉磯

  • with a baseball cap and an attitude?

    得支付儲存費用

  • But she's certainly not making a whole lot of money.

    得付給員工酬勞

  • And neither, for that matter, is her boss.

    當然還有管理費用

  • He understands that Wal-Mart has some major expenses to absorb.

    那如果我問你:日末結帳

  • They have to pay the shipping from Shanghai to L.A.

    在這些DVD上

  • They have to pay their stores.

    你和沃爾瑪誰掙的多?

  • They have to pay their employees,

    當然是沃爾瑪

  • all their overhead, of course.

    將工廠移至中國

  • But if l said to you, "At the end of the day,

    對百利通公司也有利

  • who makes more money on each of these DVDs --

    公司在重慶的工廠經營的不錯

  • you or Wal-Mart?"

    當然帕姆·裡瑟心裡很不舒服

  • Of course Wal-Mart.

    因為她的公司已移至中國

  • KOPPEL: Moving manufacturing to China

    我們最終都會失業

  • also benefits Briggs & Stratton.

    屆時美國一無所有

  • The company's doing just fine with its plant in Chongqing.

    全部流失到國外

  • Of course that's no comfort to Pam Leaser,

    好,謝謝,很高興見到你

  • whose job was outsourced to China.

    我只是希望政府覺醒

  • We're gonna wind up having no jobs.

    開始覺察

  • There's not gonna be nothing here in the United States.

    這給美國國民帶來怎樣的影響

  • lt's all gonna be overseas.

    當然,就連帕姆·裡瑟 也在沃爾瑪買東西

  • Okay. Thanks. Nice to meet you.

    今天我與我丈夫

  • LEASER: l'm just hoping that the government wakes up

    去羅拉的沃爾瑪購物了

  • and starts seeing

    在沃爾瑪購物可以省錢

  • what it's doing to United States citizens.

    比在這個小鎮上買東西便宜

  • KOPPEL: Of course, even Pam Leaser shops at Wal-Mart.

    也就是沃爾瑪更划算

  • LEASER: We shopped at Wal-Mart today in Rolla --

  • my husband and l did.

    沃爾瑪的商品

  • We can save money by shopping at Wal-Mart

    如此低價

  • instead of getting the items here in this little town.

    是因為它們的產地是中國

  • WOMAN: So, in other words, the Wal-Mart's cheaper.

    那也就是說你從中獲利

  • Yes.

  • KOPPEL: The reason that everything's so cheap

    對這點,你有何種看法?

  • at Wal-Mart

    如果帕姆·裡瑟無法回答

  • is because things are made in China.

    全球化給美國工人帶來的逆向效應

  • WOMAN: So, in a way, you benefit from it.

    那別人都無法回答

  • Yes.

    年近50,她還處於失業狀態 要找工作

  • So, how do you feel about that?

    很難期待她會

  • KOPPEL: lf Pam Leaser doesn't have an answer

    興奮於沃爾瑪的廉價商品

  • for globalization's adverse effect on American workers,

    因為這些商品

  • well, no one else does, either.

    大都由中國的廉價勞動力生產

  • At age 50, she is out of work and looking for a job.

    畢竟

  • You can hardly expect her

    這也是她失業的原因

  • to be happy about the bargains at Wal-Mart

    儘管還是早上

  • when those are largely the products

    儘管有一地的蓮藕要收穫

  • of cheap, foreign labor, especially from China.

    李慶福卻是微醺狀態

  • After all,

    我受夠他了

  • that's how she came to lose her job in the first place.

    他太討厭了,酗酒

  • Although it's still morning

    那位是李先生的妻子,秦恭錄

  • and he has a field of lotus roots to harvest,

    我們關係不好

  • Li Ching Fu is slightly drunk.

    之所以在一起,是因為我們的女兒

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    如果你覺得他們的女兒眼熟

  • lNTERPRETER: l'm so tired of him.

    那就對了

  • He's such a pain. He loves drinking.

    之前在學校的英語課上見過李丹

  • KOPPEL: That's Mr. Li's wife, Ching Gong Lu.

    每週末,她回到父母所在的村鎮

  • lNTERPRETER: We don't have a good relationship.

    下周

  • We're staying together because of our daughter.

    她又乘公交車到另一村鎮

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    在那裡,乘坐小三輪車

  • KOPPEL: lf the daughter looks slightly familiar to you,

    一路顛簸,來到另一汽車站

  • you're right.

    在那裡乘坐重慶市公交

  • You saw Li Dun at school in English class.

    之後在寄宿學校附近的站點下車

  • Every weekend, she comes home to her parents' village.

    她父親和父親的家人都認為

  • At the beginning of every week,

    上學是浪費錢

  • she boards a commuter bus to another village

    在他們看來

  • where she takes a tiny, three-wheeled taxi,

    很久以前李丹就應該

  • which bumps its way through farmland to another bus stop.

    輟學

  • There she catches a Chongqing municipal bus,

    他們認為女孩上學沒用

  • which drops her at a stop near her boarding school --

    兒子應該接受教育

  • a school which her father and his family think

    我認為很不公平

  • is a waste of money.

    中國吸引外資主要靠

  • lNTERPRETER: According to their view,

    廉價勞動力

  • she should have stopped receiving an education

    秦恭錄

  • a long time ago.

    背著蓮藕蹣跚

  • They think it is useless for a girl to be schooled.

    可以當作是一個範例

  • The son should be educated.

    收穫季節,每週有六七個早上

  • l feel it is really unfair.

    她都背120磅作物走到市場

  • KOPPEL: Everything that attracts foreign investment to China

    作物和她差不多重

  • rests on the foundation of cheap labor,

    如果一天能賺3美元,她就很開心了

  • and Ching Gong Lu,

    除去花銷

  • staggering under the weight of these lotus roots,

    租地,買種

  • may be a perfect transitional figure.

    去鎮上的車費 家庭年淨收入為570美元

  • Six and sometimes seven mornings a week during harvest season,

    其中一半

  • she carries 120 pounds of produce,

    支付李丹寄宿學校的費用

  • which is roughly what she weighs, to market.

    15歲的蔣凱倫

  • She's happy if the day's work yields $3.

    在馬裡蘭州波多馬克過著更富足的生活

  • After all expenses are paid --

    但她家也是家庭成員分居兩地

  • renting the land, buying the seed,

    她父親常離家在外

  • the daily bus fare to town -- the family nets $570 a year.

    蔣赫博士移居中國

  • Half of that

    之前他在加拿大

  • goes toward Li Dun's expenses at boarding school.

    和美國生活了20年

  • 15-year-old Kellen Jang

    他在國家衛生研究院

  • lives a far more privileged life in Potomac, Maryland,

    研究了八年艾滋病

  • but she, too, has to cope with family separation.

    4年前 蔣博士決定成立自己的實驗室

  • Her father is often gone for long stretches.

    他仍然致力於尋找 艾滋病治療的更有效措施

  • Dr. Her Jang has moved back to China

    但現在他在重慶下海

  • after living in Canada

    每天早上

  • and then in the United States for 20 years.

    他與家人進行電話會議

  • For eight years, he worked as an AlDS researcher

    嗨,親愛的

  • at the National lnstitutes of Health.

    在馬裡蘭,現在是黃昏

  • Four years ago, Dr. Jang decided to establish his own lab.

    你們好嗎?

  • He's still trying to find a more effective treatment for AlDS,

    他的兒女剛放學回家

  • but now he's set up shop in Chongqing.

    蔣博士的艾滋病治療

  • Early every morning,

    現在已在中國進入人體試驗階段

  • he's on a conference call with his family.

    在中國做監督工作

  • [ Telephone rings ]

    在波多馬克與家人團聚

  • Hi, honey.

    其間大量時間他都在機場度過

  • ln Maryland, it's late afternoon.

    長途旅行

  • So, how are you guys doing?

    在重慶,他用馬裡蘭1/5的價錢

  • KOPPEL: And his son and daughter are just back from high school.

    能租到10倍大的空間

  • Dr. Jang's AlDS treatment

    勞動力廉價,設備廉價

  • has now entered the human-trial stage in China.

    政府合作

  • Between supervising those

    大基數的

  • and spending time with his family in Potomac,

    患病人群

  • he spends a lot of his life in airports

  • and making that long commute.

    實際上,現在中國

  • ln Chongqing, he pays 1/5 what he did in Maryland

    主要的製藥公司 都已建立自己的研發中心

  • for 10 times as much space.

    這對美國是利還是弊?

  • lt's cheap labor, cheap facilities,

    我認為,從長遠來看

  • cooperation from the government,

    對大家都有利

  • and a huge base of people

    因為成本低

  • who have every disease known to man.

    最終醫療會減少

  • Yes.

    藥品價格也隨之降低

  • ln fact, the major pharmaceutical companies

    雖然有

  • are now in China building up their R&D center.

    降低出口價格的壓力

  • ls this good for America or bad for America?

    中國工人工資正在上漲

  • l think, overall, in the long run,

    管理呢?

  • it's good for everybody,

    管理符合所有人的標準

  • because the lower cost

    看這台豪華汽車

  • eventually is gonna lower the medical care.

    穿過重慶一個社區大門

  • The drug price is gonna go down.

    駛入通往精美新家的車道

  • KOPPEL: And even with the pressure

    女主人張曉靜

  • to keep prices on exports down,

    她的丈夫丁明

  • salaries for Chinese workers are going up.

    和他們兩歲的女兒丁賽涵

  • And management?

    丁先生是公司主管

  • Well, management is doing very nicely by anyone's standards.

    該公司生產電子配件

  • Seen here driving a luxury car

    為川崎和鈴木這樣的摩托公司供貨

  • through their gated community in Chongqing

    張夫人滿足于自己的角色

  • and into the driveway of their elegant new home,

    設計和裝潢他們的新家

  • homemaker Zhang Show Jing,

    從粉紅基調的女兒房間

  • her husband, Ding Ming,

    到寬敞的家庭浴室

  • and their 2-year-old daughter, Ding Sehan.

    注意這個兒童迷你馬桶

  • Mr. Ding is an executive at a thriving company

    到高品質廚房用具

  • that makes electrical components

    頂級美國商品

  • for motorcycle firms like Kawasaki and Suzuki.

    這樣的家

  • But Mrs. Zhang is rightly proud of her role

    符合中國高層社會的要求

  • in designing and decorating their new house.

    今天是派送日

  • From a pretty-in-pink room for her daughter

    派送新家具

  • to the spacious family bathroom --

    紅地毯鋪路

  • note the toddler's mini-toilet --

    白手套送貨

  • to the high-quality kitchen fixtures

    謹慎地將沙發拆封

  • and top-of-the-line American appliances,

    輕緩-甚至是愛憐的

  • it's a house fit

    移動,安放

  • for one of China's new captains of industry.

    這正在在北卡羅來納州

  • Today is delivery day

    組裝生產的沙發

  • for some long-awaited new furniture,

    沙發腿和底座是從中國進口

  • featuring both a red carpet

    而現在這個伊森艾倫牌普萊特沙發

  • and white-glove delivery service, literally.

    最終在重慶安了家

  • As for the couch being so meticulously unwrapped,

    由張夫人和丁先生擁有

  • so gently -- dare we say lovingly --

    他們在看到這沙發時

  • moved and placed,

    知道美國工藝精湛

  • that's the very couch that was assembled

    美國產品外表好看

  • and upholstered in North Carolina,

    質量也很好

  • where it was placed on the legs and base shipped from China.

    我第一輛車是別克,性能很好

  • And now here it is -- Ethan Allen's Pratt Sofa,

    我們新的美國冰箱

  • complete and in place at its final home in Chongqing

    大扇的雙開門,質量很好

  • with Mrs. Zhang and Mr. Ding,

    導購告訴我們,可以踢它

  • who know a nice piece of American craftsmanship

    我爸對我說,可以

  • when they see it.

    把這個冰箱傳給我的孫子

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

  • lNTERPRETER: American products always look good,

    冰箱和沙發

  • and the quality is always good, too.

    都能傳好幾代

  • And my first car was a Buick, which drove very well.

    而且和我們家的風格相稱

  • And our new American refrigerator

    所以我們選擇了這些

  • has big double doors, and it's really well built.

    社會主義夢想 一個沒有階級差距的社會

  • We're told you can even kick it.

    然而張夫人的大房子

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    和秦恭錄的農村小房子 差距顯而易見

  • lNTERPRETER: Yes, my father told me we can

    但漸漸的

  • pass this refrigerator down to our grandchildren.

    中國連這樣的鴻溝也可彌補了

  • Right.

    生活艱難,我們能怎麼辦?

  • Both the fridge and the couch

    我想在一二月份

  • could be passed down through several generations.

    出去找工作

  • And they match the style of our house.

    你丈夫知道嗎?

  • That's why we chose them.

    不,他不知道

  • KOPPEL: Socialism's dream of a classless society

    你認為城市的生活能好在哪裡?

  • got lost somewhere between Mrs. Zhang's McMansion

    我只知道我要為自己工作

  • and Ching Gong Lu's tiny farmhouse.

    我不知道生活能好多少

  • But China is becoming a place

    但只要能養活自己

  • where even gaps like that can be bridged.

    就可以了

  • lNTERPRETER: Life is hard. What can we do?

    我真的不想和他在一起

  • l'm planning to go out and look for a job

    很討厭他

  • in January or February.

    如果不是為了我女兒

  • Does your husband know that yet?

    我很久以前就離開他了

  • [ Man speaks Chinese ]

    無論在龍泉鎮還是在城市

  • No, he doesn't know.

    秦恭錄富裕的可能性

  • What do you think will be better about life in the city?

    極小,幾乎為零

  • All l know is that l want to work for myself.

    去游泳

  • l don't know how bright the future will be.

    但中國實行資本主義

  • As long as l can make enough to support myself,

    為她的女兒李丹 這樣接受過教育的人

  • l'll be fine.

    提供了機遇

  • l really don't get on with him.

    存繼明被重慶人稱為

  • l'm so annoyed by him.

    梆梆人

  • lf it hadn't been for my daughter,

    在其他時期

  • l would have left him a long time ago.

    可以將這夥人稱為苦力

  • KOPPEL: Ching Gong Lu's chances of getting rich

    船在長江航行

  • in her village of Dragon Spring or in the city

    將外國遊客帶至三峽

  • were always slim and none.

    陳先生及其同伴會

  • WOMAN: Go swimming.

    在重慶的碼頭為遊客提行李

  • KOPPEL: But China's experiment with capitalism

    他們不太瞭解美國人

  • offers a genuine window of hope to Li Dun, her daughter --

    但他們很喜歡美國人

  • the one with the education.

    美國人很好

  • Chun Ji Ming is what is known in Chongqing

    因為經濟更發達

  • as a bang bang man.

    他們比德國和法國人更慷慨

  • ln another time and place,

    美國人很有錢嗎?

  • he and his crew might have been called coolies.

    美國人小費給的很多

  • When the riverboats churn their way up and down the Yangtze

    他們很慷慨

  • carrying foreign tourists to and from the scenic Three Gorges,

    給我講講你對美國的瞭解

  • Mr. Chun and the others carry their baggage

    據我所知,美國是世界上

  • up and down the embankment here in Chongqing.

    最發達,最富有的國家

  • They don't know much about Americans,

    陳先生也許想過

  • but what they know, they like.

    美國與中國曾經打過仗

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    日後也許會再次成為敵人

  • lNTERPRETER: Americans are great.

    中國呢?

  • Because their economy is more developed,

    你認為

  • they're more generous than the Germans and the French.

    中國和美國會打仗嗎?

  • Do the Americans have lots of money?

    不可能

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    中美關係

  • Americans give good tips.

    現在很好

  • They are very generous.

    不會的

  • Tell me what you know about America.

    不知是出於禮貌還是直覺

  • As far as l know, America is the most advanced

    陳先生對共同利益的理解

  • and also the richest country in the world.

    與美國投資銀行家 西蒙·埃布萊克相似

  • KOPPEL: lt may have occurred to Mr. Chun

    美國要清楚自己在此的目的

  • that Americans and Chinese, who have been enemies,

    中國發展迅速,敞開大門

  • may one day be bitter rivals again.

    長遠來講,中國

  • And what about China?

    也許是美國的競爭者 也許是美國的合作者

  • Do you think the day will come

    -兼而有之? -也可能是兼而有之

  • when China and America have to fight?

    因為與中國合作

  • That is impossible.

    最後對大家都有好處

  • The relationship between America and China

    從人道主義觀點來看

  • is pretty good right now.

    對經濟和政治都有利

  • That won't happen.

    這是雙贏局面

  • KOPPEL: Whether out of courtesy or intuition,

    無法避免

  • Mr. Chun understands mutual interests when he sees them,

    全球範圍的

  • as does American investment banker Simon Erblich.

    市場效率提高和廉價勞動力

  • America has to figure out what it wants to do here.

    不能永遠避免

  • China is growing fast, and they're opening up their doors.

    比如絲綢製造業

  • So, either China, in the long run,

    這是古代中國的工藝

  • is gonna be a competitor of America's or a partner.

    這些蠶繭

  • -Both? -Or both.

    成長於桑樹之上

  • 'Cause being a partner with China,

    即將脫下絲線

  • at the end of the day, is gonna be good for everybody,

    多虧了西蒙·埃布萊克

  • both financially speaking, politically speaking,

    他們在華爾街也有立足之地

  • from a humanitarian standpoint.

    這是中美關係的

  • That is a win-win situation for everybody,

    另一紐帶

  • and you're not gonna be able to avoid

    你對絲綢廠瞭解多少?

  • the efficiencies of market,

    說實話,不太瞭解

  • the cheaper labor that's gonna be available all over the world,

    但並非是

  • and you can't keep running away from that.

    絲綢生產的專業技術

  • KOPPEL: Take silk-making for example,

    使得西蒙·埃布萊克 和他的夥伴丹·希爾

  • an ancient Chinese industry.

    對中國感興趣

  • These silkworm cocoons,

    西蒙和丹發現

  • nurtured on thousands of acres of Chinese mulberry bushes,

    美國股票交易中可以考慮的公司

  • are about to be relieved of their silken thread.

    比如說一個傳統絲綢廠

  • They enjoy, thanks to Simon Erblich,

    需要資金購買新設備

  • a small, humble place on Wall Street --

    中國企業家吸收美國投資

  • another thread, if you'll pardon the pun,

    更新設備

  • in the fabric of Sino-American relations.

    中國政府鼓勵

  • So, what do you know about silk factories?

    絲綢廠隨之發展起來

  • To be honest, not much.

    理論上,大家都有利潤

  • KOPPEL: But, then, it's not their expertise

    在中國

  • on silk production

    價位很低,一二百萬

  • that makes Simon Erblich and his partner Dan Hirsch

    這就是你找到的…

  • interesting to the Chinese.

    -機遇 -甕中捉鱉

  • Simon and Dan find companies

    -雙贏? -雙贏

  • that can be listed on American stock exchanges --

    -誰贏? -大家都贏了

  • let's say an antiquated silk factory

    每天

  • that needs money to buy new technology.

    幾百萬中國農民

  • Chinese entrepreneur takes American investment,

    走入城市

  • updates factory.

    留在家中的農民開始供種

  • Chinese government provides incentives,

    其利用的引擎也許是

  • silk factory blossoms.

    百利通公司生產的引擎

  • ln theory, everybody gets rich.

    如果同樣的工作

  • ERBLlCH: They were valued very low --

    農民數量減少

  • $1 million, $2 million -- here in China.

    實際工作人員減少

  • So, that's what you see as...

    他們就需要購買自動設備

  • -An opportunity. -...shooting fish in a barrel.

    幫忙生產

  • -Win-win? -Win-win.

    如果我對你說,吉姆,有沒有

  • -For whom? -Everybody.

    中斷中美關係的方法

  • KOPPEL: Just as one day,

    我們與中國是利還是弊…

  • when millions of Chinese peasants

  • have been drawn into the cities,

    這需要互相契合,而且將永遠如此

  • the remaining farmers will start using engines,

    如果知道美國

  • perhaps even Briggs & Stratton engines,

    有多少公司

  • to work larger plots of land.

    依賴中國製造的產品

  • MARCEAU: When you have less farmers

    或是中國製造的原材料

  • trying to do the same amount of work

    如果想中斷這種關係

  • without the actual people,

    會有無數公司

  • they're gonna have to start buying automated products

    因缺乏供應,損失慘重

  • to help them.

    我認為隨著時間的推移

  • lf l said to you, Jim, is there any way

    我們與中國的關係只會更加緊密

  • of untangling the Chinese-American relationship --

    北卡羅來納州勒努瓦的家族式公司

  • Are we and the Chinese, for good or ill...

    本哈特家具公司

  • Oh, yeah.

    25年前將部分廠房移至中國

  • l think it's meshed. lt's got to be meshed forever.

    總裁埃裡克斯·本哈特說

  • l mean, if you look at the amount of companies

    這也是個雙贏的舉措

  • in the United States

    首先想到了工作道德

  • that rely on Chinese-made products

    那的人民智慧,熱愛工作

  • or Chinese-made materials,

    樂於學習

  • if you try to pull that apart,

    可以逐步灌輸給他們

  • you would have so many companies

    一些本哈特的

  • with a complete loss in supply of what they do.

    質量理念和標準

  • So l think it's something that will only get --

    所以,顯然這個國家是我們的選擇

  • We'll only get more involved with China as times goes on.

    本哈特向美國員工解釋

  • KOPPEL: The family-owned Bernhardt Furniture Company

    外包至中國

  • in Lenoir, North Carolina,

    可以保持美國公司的經營

  • moved some of its operations to China more than 25 years ago.

    同時保證價格具有競爭力

  • That, too, says CEO Alex Bernhardt,

    他將此稱為「沃爾瑪方式」

  • has been a win-win proposition.

    我在沃爾瑪購物

  • Work ethic comes to mind immediately.

    期待購買到外國生產的

  • The people are diligent and work eagerly.

    電視,鞋,皮帶

  • They're eager to learn.

    相機和衣物

  • We've been able to instill in them

    希望生產者瞭解消費者

  • some of the quality aspirations and standards

    需要更適宜的設計,質量和價格

  • that Bernhardt has.

    也許有點可悲,但事實是

  • So, clearly, today, it's the country of choice for us.

    原產國對美國消費者來說

  • KOPPEL: Bernhardt explains to his American workers

    並不十分重要

  • that outsourcing to China

    美國消費者的廉價商品

  • allowed him to keep plants open in the United States

    對中國中產階級是優質進口商品

  • while keeping his overall prices competitive.

    還記得張太太嗎

  • lt's what he calls "That Wal-Mart thing."

    那個買伊森艾倫沙發的人?

  • BERNHARDT: l shop at Wal-Mart. l expect they do.

    她開德國寶馬

  • l expect we're all using televisions and shoes and belts

    身披英國巴寶莉披肩

  • and cameras and clothing

    手提法國LV包

  • that is made somewhere else in the world,

    然而她每週去沃爾瑪

  • and they understand that the consumers today

    至少在重慶,沃爾瑪

  • want great design, great quality, and a great price.

    是高檔購物地點

  • And whether it's sad or just reality,

    這裡有精品食物

  • the country of origin is not of great importance

    超出當地消費水平的雞爪

  • to consumers in America.

    進口於北卡羅來納州

  • KOPPEL: Bargains for the American consumer,

    如果想瞭解

  • quality exports for the growing Chinese middle class.

    中美關係

  • Remember Mrs. Zhang,

    不應該選擇沃爾瑪做切入點

  • the woman who bought the Ethan Allen couch?

    在美國

  • She drives a BMW from Germany,

    消費者在這尋找廉價外國商品

  • wears a Burberry shawl from England,

    而在中國,沃爾瑪傳遞的

  • and carries a Louis Vuitton handbag from France.

    是完全不同的概念

  • She's paying her weekly visit to Wal-Mart,

    這裡象徵著高品質,高價位的外國商品

  • which, in Chongqing at least,

    這不僅是起點

  • is one of the upscale places to shop.

    資本主義

  • There are delicacies to be found here --

    已經在中國建立堅實的基礎

  • chicken feet, far superior to the local variety,

    這又怎麼說?

  • imported from North Carolina.

    地震發生時,中國發揮了

  • lf you're trying to get a handle

    權威政府的功能

  • on the Sino-American relationship,

    幾小時內,10萬軍人到達現場

  • Wal-Mart's not a bad place to start.

    中國總理

  • ln America,

    親臨現場

  • where consumers are looking for cheap foreign imports,

    羅·文森特是中國的一位億萬富翁

  • and now in China, where the Wal-Mart name conveys

    當然,聽上去民主很誘人

  • a totally different image

    但實際上,效果很難說

  • of quality and high-priced foreign imports.

    聽聽這位年輕

  • lt's more than a toehold.

    西化的時尚攝影師的說法

  • Capitalism, of all things,

    可以知道,中國政府的方式奏效了

  • has established a solid foothold in China.

    應該說,我愛我的祖國

  • How about that?

    但我不愛我的政府

  • When the earthquake hit, China demonstrated

    我相信政府

  • one of the strengths of an authoritarian government --

    下期節目播出

  • 100,000 troops mobilized and on the scene within hours,

    「科佩爾探索」

  • and China's prime minister on hand

    『資本主義的人民共和國』

  • to oversee the situation.

    迷信說法認為

  • Vincent Lo is one of China's billionaire developers.

    很多中國人也相信

  • Democracy. Of course, it sounds good.

    重大自然災害

  • But in practice, it doesn't always bring you the results.

    是巨大變革的先兆

  • [ Camera shutter clicks ]

    這會有何後果?

  • KOPPEL: lf you listen to a young

    災難性的地震

  • Westernized fashion photographer,

    而中國將首次舉辦奧林匹克運動會

  • the Chinese government's approach is working.

    世界矚目

  • l have to say that l love my country,

    之前有驚人相似的經歷

  • but l don't love my government.

    那場事故沒有外國人報道

  • l trust my government.

    圖片資料極少

  • KOPPEL: That, in our next broadcast.

    1976年7月末

  • KOPPEL: The superstitious --

    中國發生過一次

  • and there are many of them in China --

    更為慘重的地震

  • believe that huge natural catastrophes

    25萬人喪命

  • are always precursors of great change.

    奧林匹克運動會在蒙特利爾舉行

  • What must they be thinking?

    中國沒有參加

  • A disastrous earthquake,

    文化大革命期間

  • China, about to host its first Olympic Games,

    中國拒絕與外界進行一切往來

  • and the entire world is watching.

    毛澤東彌留之際

  • Something strikingly similar happened before,

    重大變革即將發生

  • although there were no outsiders in China to record the event,

    第二部分『從毛澤東主義到利己主義』 字幕製作:[email protected]

  • and very few pictures remain.

    記憶會消散

  • ln late July of 1976,

    在中國

  • there was an even more catastrophic earthquake

    40歲以下的人記不太清

  • in China.

    文化大革命

  • More than a quarter of a million people died.

    那時毛澤東思想

  • The Olympic Games were under way in Montreal,

    被廣泛弘揚

  • and China played no part in them whatsoever.

    被人們當作至高無上的真理

  • ln those waning days of the Cultural Revolution,

    這樣的珍寶…

  • China refused almost all contact with the outside world.

    年輕的有識之士

  • Mao Tse-Tung lay on his death bed,

    應該紮根農村

  • and great changes were about to take place.

    接受貧苦農民再教育

  • [ Anthem playing ]

    德國企業家在慕尼黑郊外

  • Memories fade.

    開了一個啤酒館

  • Even in China,

    演員身著制服…

  • people under the age of 40 have no personal recollection

    讓他們用麥克風

  • of the Cultural Revolution --

    朗讀希特勒『我的奮鬥』選段

  • years when the thoughts of Chairman Mao

    一些懷舊的德國人

  • were memorized and treasured

    大口吃著德式香腸和烤牛肉

  • as though they were biblical revelations.

    如果當時真的如此

  • Gems like this...

    不會真的如此,不可能

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    但這夥中國食客

  • KOPPEL: "lt is necessary for young intellectuals

    在此度過娛樂的一夜

  • to live and work in the countryside

    酒足飯飽之後

  • and to be re-educated by the poor farmers."

    這些懷舊人士

  • [ lndistinct shouting ]

    會在硬木板凳上坐幾個小時

  • lf some German entrepreneur had opened a beer garden

    回憶文化大革命時的快樂日子

  • on the outskirts of Munich,

    這種闊步向前,激昂鬥志的

  • dressed an actor up in an old S.S. uniform...

    搖旗宣傳活動

  • [ Man speaking Chinese ]

    是當時60年代中期至70年代中期

  • ...and then had him read excerpts

    中國僅有的娛樂形式

  • from Hitler's "Mein Kampf" into a microphone

    當時的中國人別無選擇

  • while a couple of hundred nostalgic Germans

    更嚴重的是

  • chowed down on bratwurst and sauerbraten --

    如懷疑哪個人有野心

  • if that had happened --

    或是期待富裕都會遭到辱打,折磨

  • Well, it wouldn't. lt couldn't.

    戴高帽

  • But this cheerful horde of Chinese diners

    發放到中國最偏遠最貧窮的地區

  • is embarking on a comparable evening of entertainment.

    任何形式的創新思想,抱負 都被扼殺,禁止

  • After dinner and a bracing quantity of adult beverages,

    這種餐廳間劇院的形式

  • this crowd of nostalgia buffs

    顯然吸引了很多懷舊人士

  • will spend the next couple of hours on hard wooden benches,

    不同于老年觀眾

  • recalling the good old days of the Cultural Revolution.

    年輕人認為這很有趣

  • [ Woman singing in Chinese ]

    如今,對於很多中國人來說

  • This strutting, stylized, fist-pumping,

    應該嘲笑文化大革命

  • flag-waving propaganda production

    而無需謹慎牢記

  • was the only kind of entertainment permitted in China

    在那時,可以有致富的想法

  • from the mid '60s to the mid '70s.

    但絕對不能說出來

  • The Chinese had no choices.

    現在,這是很普遍的話題

  • All the while,

    當時是狗咬狗

  • anyone even remotely suspected of harboring personal ambitions

    人人為敵

  • or dreams of prosperity was harassed and tormented,

    坐在我右面的

  • forced to wear dunce caps,

    胡雲蘇女士

  • driven out into the poorest, most remote corners of China.

    是重慶繁榮經濟的領軍人

  • Creative thinking, ambition of any kind was stifled, smothered.

    比自己曾經最有野心的夢想還要富有

  • [ Mid-tempo music playing ]

    然而對往昔還有一些懷念

  • And while this dinner-theater production

    那時

  • clearly does seem to elicit some pangs of nostalgia

    人們的思想簡單,純樸

  • among older members of the audience,

    時代複雜

  • the younger people think it's a hoot.

    人們想的少,做的多

  • [ Cheering ]

    我們是知道的很少

  • To many Chinese these days,

    但並不意味著生活質量下降

  • the Cultural Revolution is better mocked

    一定要看看胡女士的餐廳旅店集團

  • than too carefully remembered.

    佔據了這個新興城市的天際線

  • You may, back then, have thought about getting rich,

    延伸至山巔,俯視嘉陵河畔

  • but you didn't dare say it out loud.

    與重慶一樣,這裡很不簡單

  • Now it's all anybody talks about.

    這座城市吸引了大量外資

  • lt's a dog-eat-dog world.

    大型工廠,建築

  • Everyone's in competition with everybody else.

    與胡女士的娛樂產業一樣

  • The woman sitting to my immediate right,

    其目的是實現夢想和迅速致富

  • Madam Hu Yung Szu,

    我驕傲于自己的富有

  • is one of the top dogs in Chongqing's booming economy --

    我勤勞致富

  • rich beyond her own wildest dreams,

    現在我有錢了,可以幫助別人致富

  • yet still a little nostalgic for the old days.

    而孫明,資本主義的代表

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    他是汽車巨頭

  • lNTERPRETER: ln those days,

    在文化大革命期間

  • people's thinking was very simple and humble, too.

    勞苦工作,流放農村,忍饑挨餓

  • People thought less than they do now

    我對他提起那場稀奇古怪的表演時

  • in these complicated times.

    他的眼睛似乎有些濕潤

  • Yes, we knew very little,

    人們好像已經忘卻了

  • but that doesn't mean our lives were worse.

    已經不太在意了

  • KOPPEL: You can't miss Madam Hu's restaurant/hotel complex.

    為我解釋一下

  • lt dominates the skyline of this boomtown,

    首先

  • carved into a cliff overlooking the Jialing River.

    從前的農村生活很艱難

  • Like Chongqing itself, it's not subtle.

    但同時也賦予我們很好的生活經歷

  • This city is all about big investment,

    其次,今天的全球化競爭如此激烈

  • heavy manufacturing, massive construction.

    發展迅猛,使得我們

  • Like Madam Hu's entertainment complex,

    包括我自己,都感到壓力重大

  • it's all about big dreams and instant fortunes.

    想起往昔

  • lNTERPRETER: l am proud of being rich.

    儘管艱難,但很自由

  • l made my money through hard work,

    整日唱歌跳舞

  • and now that l have it, l can help others become rich, too.

    今天的壓力

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    可以使人認識到往昔的生活很簡單

  • KOPPEL: ln Ming Shun, capitalism personified.

    所以,表演中有人甚至會哭泣

  • He is an automobile magnate.

    三十年河東,三十年河西

  • He endured hard labor, exile to the countryside,

    如果有錢,可以買到一切

  • and starvation rations during the Cultural Revolution.

    毒品,女人

  • But when l mention that bizarre dinner show to him,

    謹慎就好

  • even he seems to get a little misty-eyed.

    如果沒錢,就要盡最大的努力

  • lt's almost as though they miss it,

    去賺錢

  • as though they're nostalgic for it.

    這並不完美,但已比從前有所進步

  • Explain that to me.

    誰使之成為可能?政府

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    政治自由,異議權

  • lNTERPRETER: First of all,

    西藏自由

  • life in the countryside in the old days was very hard,

    也有不可跨越的鴻溝

  • but at the same time, it gave us a good life experience.

    什麼都可以說,但不要談論政治

  • Secondly, today's global competition is so fierce

    聽音樂

  • and came so fast, it made all of us,

    #這樣說,這樣走

  • including myself, feel such heavy pressure.

    歌手

  • When they remember the old days,

    取了個西方名字,貝森妮

  • although life was very harsh, it was free.

    #這樣說

  • They used to dance and sing all the time.

    她是棉花酒吧的歌手

  • With the pressure you get today,

    英語說的很好

  • you realize life in the old days was very simple.

    但對話內容複雜之後

  • That is why some people even cry during that show.

    她用漢語回答

  • KOPPEL: The best of times, the worst of times.

    在重慶這樣發展迅速的城市

  • lf you've got money, you can buy almost anything --

    中國的社會各階層

  • drugs, women.

    在道德方面有何區別?

  • Just be discreet.

    與所有發展迅速的城市一樣

  • lf you're poor, there are more chances to make money

    變革中的人們多少會有些迷失

  • than anyone can remember.

    人們很膚淺

  • lt's not perfect, but it's better than before.

    對外界事物好奇

  • And who's making it possible? The government.

    常常很困惑

  • [ Singing in Chinese ]

    比如會吸毒

  • KOPPEL: Political freedom, the right to dissent,

    有需求就會得到滿足

  • freedom for Tibet --

    有錢什麼都買得到

  • There are lines you don't cross.

    有些富人沒時間尋找真愛

  • Talk about anything you like, just don't get political.

    但仍然需要女孩子

  • Listen to the music.

    所以就尋找快餐愛情

  • Talk this way, walk this way

    而美麗的女孩子又想迅速致富

  • KOPPEL: The singer --

    所以中國才有這麼多問題

  • She's adopted a Western name, Bethany...

    通常來講,不允許同性戀

  • Talk this way

    但現在很多人

  • ...is the featured performer here at the Cotton Club.

    可以接受這樣的事

  • Speaks good English,

    中國同性戀公開嗎?

  • but when the conversation gets complicated,

    哦,是的

  • she'll answer in Chinese.

    一些高檔同性戀酒吧

  • What is different in the Chinese social structure,

    男人在此歡聚

  • in the morality,

    他們甚至不認為 自己是堅定的同性戀者

  • in a city like Chongqing that is growing so quickly?

    請繼續觀看

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    『資本主義的人民共和國』

  • lNTERPRETER: Like any city that develops quickly,

    夜幕降臨

  • people are more or less lost in the transition.

    重慶的每個廣場

  • People become very shallow

    都會有種魔幻色彩

  • and curious about anything from the outside,

    擴音器裡播放著音樂

  • and they often get confused.

    免費音樂

  • Take drugs, for example.

    這樣大家都能消受

  • Whenever there is a demand, there will be a supply.

    其它娛樂形式的

  • You can get whatever you want, as long as you have money.

    創新空間不大

  • Some rich men don't have time to look for real love,

    上千人,多數是中年婦女

  • and still they need girls.

    來到廣場上跳舞

  • So they come pick them up like fast food.

    幾乎與此同時

  • And the pretty girls want a shortcut to get rich.

    歐陽開始了準備工作

  • This is why China has so many problems.

    歐陽是異性表演演員

  • Traditionally, homosexuality was illegal,

    我交第一個男朋友時

  • but now it's not difficult

    我爸問我

  • for many people to accept such a thing.

    「你為什麼和那個男孩子

  • KOPPEL: Open homosexuality in China?

    有特殊關係?」

  • Oh, yes.

    當然他指的是「同性戀關係」

  • And some highly popular gay clubs,

    我爸說,如果這是病

  • where it's celebrated by men who say

    我們就找大夫治療

  • they don't think they will be gay forever.

    但如果你就是這樣子 那沒什麼關係了」

  • We'll show you.

    如果想在中國大陸找到一個那樣的地方

  • When night falls,

    如意俱樂部就是了

  • almost every public square in Chongqing

    這個俱樂部就在市中心 而且非常繁華

  • takes on a little magic.

    每天晚上都有成群結隊的

  • [ Slow-tempo music plays ]

    男女同性戀或者好奇的正常夫婦 聚集於此

  • The music is piped in over speakers,

    那個地方大部分時候 還是比較無聊的

  • and because it's free,

    但是60年前

  • which is the only price that everyone can afford,

    中國還是個十分閉塞和拘謹的國家

  • and because there's very little land available

    這個俱樂部之所以可以公開營業

  • for any other kind of recreation,

    而沒有政府或者警察干涉

  • thousands of people, mostly middle-aged women,

    主要是因為 他們會定期給有關部門行賄

  • come to these squares and dance.

    但這也是 中國價值觀發生轉變的一個標誌

  • [ Dance music plays ]

    剛剛起步的時候,確實很困難

  • lt is at about this time

    警方和文化稽查給我們

  • that O Yung begins to prepare for work.

    施加了很大的壓力

  • O Yung is a drag performer.

    因為這種同性戀聚會在中國是非法的

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    政府認定我們這個俱樂部

  • lNTERPRETER: When l had my first boyfriend,

    涉嫌經營低俗、情色演出

  • my father asked me,

    但是由於人們對艾滋病的逐漸認識

  • "Why do you have such a special relationship

    同時也對同性戀俱樂部的態度發生了 變化慢慢的變得寬容了好多

  • with that boy?"

    中國艾滋病不再被認為是

  • Of course he meant "gay relationship."

    只有同性戀才會得的病

  • My father said, "lf this is an illness,

    而且治療艾滋病的方法 也是越來越發達了

  • we will find a doctor to cure it,

    在中國,做任何事都不能太過

  • but if this is what you are, that's okay."

    包括有些過激的政治言論

  • KOPPEL: The Wu Yi Club is hardly the kind of place

    重慶有同性戀遊行

  • you expect to find in China's heartland.

    一類的事情發生過嗎?

  • The club flourishes in the very heart of town

    目前,在中國的重慶或者其它城市

  • and is packed every night

    都沒有過類似的同性戀遊行

  • with gays and lesbians and a few curious straights.

    在中國同性戀還不能到處宣傳自己

  • lt's pretty tame stuff, for the most part,

    社會還沒有「進步」到那個地步

  • but for the past 60 years,

    嗨!

  • China's been a rigidly Puritanical country.

    在中國

  • The mere fact that this club is permitted to exist openly

    家庭和兒童肩負著重大的使命

  • without police interference

    年輕人最終都必須要

  • is almost certainly due to regular payoffs,

    贍養他們的父母和長輩

  • but it's also a mark of China's changing values.

    所有的男人 不論是同性戀還是異性戀

  • lNTERPRETER: When the bar started, it was difficult.

    都應該將家中的香火延續下去

  • There was a lot of pressure from the cultural inspectors

    歐陽說,在某種程度上

  • and the police,

    他也會回歸正常的生活軌道上

  • because this type of gay gathering was illegal,

    中國是個比較傳統的國家

  • and the officials judged our drag show

    我們的家人都希望我結婚

  • to be dirty and pornographic.

    所以呢我就考慮30歲的時候

  • But society has become more and more tolerant

    再結婚

  • towards the gay community as a result of AlDS awareness.

    中國的同性戀現在面臨著 一個兩難的境地

  • KOPPEL: AlDS in China is no longer perceived

    我們大多數都會回歸傳統

  • as only a gay disease,

    好像在中國同性戀只是一個

  • and some forms of treatment are becoming increasingly available.

    發展過程中的一個階段

  • Anything, though, that even smacks of political expression

    一個過渡的階段

  • crosses the line.

    我們這裡所談論的一切

  • ls there ever anything

    對於大多數中國人而言 都是很令人震驚的

  • like a gay-pride parade in Chongqing?

    尤其是對於鄉下人

  • lNTERPRETER: So far in China, in Chongqing and other cities,

    這是主流的價值觀

  • there is no gay-pride parade.

    任何形式的性行為依然是極度隱私的

  • Society has not reached the level

    但那些流動人口

  • where gay people can express themselves in that way.

    成千上萬地湧入中國的

  • Hi!

    各大城市

  • KOPPEL: ln China,

    大多數都是些年輕人

  • family and children take on added significance.

    不但年輕而且單身

  • The young are expected

    要不就是年輕力壯 但和家人已經好久沒有在一起過

  • to eventually take care of their elders.

    和世界的其它地方一樣

  • All men, gay or straight,

    由於他們比較貧窮

  • are expected to continue the family line.

    這就意味著 他們有對廉價性行為的巨大需求

  • And O Yung says that, at some point,

    我的一個同事叫尼克·麥基 住在重慶

  • he, too, will return to the closet.

    有一次我們開著車 從當地的紅燈區穿過

  • lNTERPRETER: China is a traditional country,

    這個地區肯定已經存在了好久了

  • and all my family wants is for me to get married.

    以前隱藏很深的妓院

  • So l suspect that l will have to get married

    現在都開在了明面上

  • after l turn 30.

    我們看到了一群「警務人員」

  • This is a dilemma all Chinese gay men face,

    剛從那些地方出去,是吧?

  • and eventually most of us follow tradition.

    可想而知這些是什麼樣的場所

  • KOPPEL: lt is as though coming out of the closet in China

    雖然是違法的,但是依然在營業

  • is only a temporary stage of development,

    這樣就引發了一個這樣的問題

  • a passing phase.

    「為了繼續經營下去

  • Everything we've been talking about here

    這樣的場所是否向當地的警察局付了 某種意義上的保護費,這值得懷疑」

  • would still come as a massive shock to most Chinese.

    賣淫是違法的

  • Especially among people in the countryside --

    這些場所已經把「賣淫」擺在了明面上了

  • and that's a vast majority -- traditional values prevail.

    他們認為這樣可以「一舉多得」

  • Sex of any kind remains a very private matter.

    重慶的卡拉ok不僅僅可以提供

  • But migrant workers,

    陪唱服務,還能提供更多…

  • the men and women who are flocking

    你越有錢

  • to China's cities by the millions,

    你可以享受到的服務也就越豐富

  • are, for the most part, young people --

    現在的中國人 面對過去舒適的生活方式

  • young and single,

    還有那對未來的無限憧憬

  • or young and separated from their families for long periods.

    導致了現在這樣一種令人糾結的狀況

  • As in many places around the world,

    每年過農曆新年的那幾天

  • the fact that they are also poor

    對於中國人而言是十分重要的

  • simply means that there is a huge demand for cheap sex.

    中國自始至終都有傳統節日貫穿著

  • My colleague Nick Mackey, who lives in Chongqing,

    這時那些該回家的都就要回家了

  • drove us through the low-end red-light district.

    這時成千上萬的民工

  • lt may have existed before,

    蜂擁至重慶的汽車還有火車站

  • but now these storefront brothels

    回到他們的家鄉去

  • are all out in the open.

    那裡有他們的祖先

  • We saw a whole bunch of police

    這個年輕的女孩子,她叫李丹

  • walking not far from here. Right?

    她這是剛從寄宿學校回到家來

  • lt's quite obvious what these places are.

    她的老家叫龍泉

  • lt's against the law, but it goes on.

    剛剛和其父母從山上

  • MACKEY: Absolutely, and it does beg the question,

    祭奠完她的外婆

  • "Are these places paying some form of protection money

    中國人相信煙花可以驅邪

  • to the local police to actually stay in operation?"

    這是傳統

  • Prostitution is illegal,

    她的媽媽,叫秦恭錄 去年春天的時候

  • and these shops are fronts for prostitution.

    和她的父親鬧翻了

  • KOPPEL: A product to suit every pocketbook.

    並且說過完年就離開他

  • [ Dance music playing ]

    去城裡找工作

  • There's more available than just a sing-along

    她的女兒李丹嚇壞了

  • at Chongqing's karaoke clubs.

    威脅她的媽媽說 如果那樣的話,她就不上學了

  • The more money a customer's got,

    我姑姑說

  • the more options he'll have to spend it.

    城裡人都看不起鄉下人

  • The Chinese are caught between the glittering promise

    我也擔心在那邊能幹什麼工作

  • of the future

    秦恭錄說她和她丈夫之間

  • and the comfortable patterns of the past.

    根本沒有感情

  • For a few days every year during the Lunar New Year's holiday,

    他家裡人對她可不好了 還有他還經常喝得爛醉

  • the past re-establishes its hold.

    生下李丹之後

  • Tradition prevails throughout China.

    她父親和其家人很不快

  • Those who are not home go home.

    他們真希望生的是個男孩子

  • By the hundreds of thousands,

    我婆婆不想讓我們在她家呆著

  • they flood Chongqing's train and bus stations

    就因為我生了個女兒

  • and head for the villages where they were born

    這樣我們就被拋棄了

  • and where their ancestors are buried.

    老一代人就是這樣

  • The young girl there, that's Li Dun.

    但是他們之間最大的矛盾

  • She's home from boarding school,

    就在於把李丹送到寄宿學校

  • walking up into the hills of her home village, Dragon Spring,

    所花的錢由誰出

  • with her mother and father,

    秦恭錄為了讓孩子上學

  • to visit the grave of her maternal grandmother.

    她自己什麼苦都可以吃

  • [ Popping ]

    她也心甘情願呆在龍泉

  • Fireworks to frighten away evil spirits.

    實際上,她還在當地的一家餐飲部兼職

  • Tradition.

    她的工作是為像這樣的婚禮準備食材

  • The mother, Ching Gong Lu, had told me last fall

    這樣就有錢可以供得起她女兒上學了

  • that she was fed up with her husband,

    她對自己的丈夫別無他求

  • that she would leave him right after the new year

    他酗酒無度

  • and find a job in the city.

    他每天最多工作一兩個小時

  • Her daughter Li Dun was horrified.

    然後就一醉不起

  • Warned her mother that she would leave school if that happened.

    秦恭錄一直工作

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    而她丈夫卻總是酗酒

  • lNTERPRETER: My aunt says people in the city

    現在中國這樣的事情並不普遍

  • look down on us villagers,

    但是在以前

  • and l worry about the type of work there.

    這種事情卻經常發生

  • KOPPEL: Ching Gong Lu says there was never any love

    但是中國的傳統一直在改變

  • between her and her husband.

    秦恭錄所做出的一切犧牲

  • His family treated her horribly, and he's often drunk.

    就是為了讓李丹徹底

  • lNTERPRETER: When Li Dun was born,

    脫離這種傳統觀念的束縛

  • her father and his family were not pleased.

    雖然沒有一個好的開端

  • They hoped to have a boy.

    一個年輕女人的選擇是有限的

  • My mother-in-law did not want us to stay at her home

    這些女孩子去幹什麼呢?

  • because l gave birth to a daughter,

    都不大,和李丹同齡吧 也都不是大城市裡的孩子

  • so we were thrown out.

    她們都很好 都來自不錯的家庭

  • That's typical of the older generation.

    她們可以去工廠打工

  • KOPPEL: But the biggest issue between them

    她們可能一個禮拜 就能有20到25美元的收入

  • was over spending the money to send Li Dun, a girl,

    但是她們真的好想賺錢

  • to boarding school.

    她們所有的只是年輕的資本 還有姣好的容貌

  • Ching Gong Lu will endure almost anything

    所以她們就來到在這樣的地方工作

  • to keep her child in school.

    這個地方的女孩子 每天晚上都可以賺到20美元

  • She will even stay in Dragon Spring.

    這是間卡拉ok酒吧

  • lndeed, she has found a second job working for a local caterer,

    這樣的酒吧什麼類型的都有有優雅 華貴的,有一般的,也有低俗不堪的

  • preparing banquets for wedding celebrations like this one.

    這個地方就屬於那種一般偏上的

  • The extra money will help pay the tuition.

    在高級和低級之間的那種場所

  • The caterer wanted no part of her husband.

    傑基·李今年才25歲

  • He drinks too much.

    然而他卻是這間酒吧的經理

  • He works well enough for an hour or two,

    這是間商務會所

  • but then, eventually, he passes out.

    好多商人都會過來這邊

  • Ching Gong Lu keeps on working.

    他們過來這邊談判

  • Her husband keeps on drinking.

    好多協議都是在這些地方簽訂的

  • lt's far from universal in China,

    確實如此

  • but under the old ways,

    人們將各種各樣的協議 放在這樣的地方簽署

  • this kind of thing happened all too often.

    多是商人

  • But tradition is changing all over China.

    和政府官員都認為對方對自己有用

  • That is exactly what Ching Gong Lu's sacrifice

    這樣好多權錢交易 就在俱樂部中發生了

  • is intended to achieve for Li Dun --

    大家在這喝酒唱歌

  • a complete break with precisely that kind of tradition.

    但是最高潮的時候…

  • Without such a head start, though,

    還是叫小姐的時候

  • a young woman's options in the city are limited.

    女孩子的工作我覺得

  • What are these girls going to do?

    就是讓大家提起勁來

  • Young girls -- Li Dun's age -- also from outside the big city.

    她們唱的不錯

  • They're nice girls. They come from good families.

    喝的也不少

  • [ Laughter ]

    尤其是擅長

  • They could work on an assembly line.

    搞好包間裡的情調

  • Perhaps they'd earn $20 or $25 a week.

    因為大家都是來玩的

  • But they want to make a lot of money,

    這個俱樂部有個特別熱鬧的地方

  • and all they've got is their youth and their good looks.

    大家坐在那盯著那些個年輕女子

  • And so they come to work in a place like this,

    「雨中漫步

  • where some of the girls can earn $20 in an evening.

    但是女孩子們身上之所以帶著號碼牌

  • [ Speaking Chinese in unison ]

    就是要客人點自己用的

  • KOPPEL: lt's a karaoke bar.

    為了讓顧客們都踴躍

  • They tend to run the gamut from gaudy to tacky to sleazy.

    叫小姐出去過夜

  • This is one of the better ones,

    「哦,哦

  • somewhere between gaudy and tacky.

    「大家一起來啊

  • Jackie Li is only 25 years old,

    這樣會所有些就是

  • but he's the manager of this KTV club.

    精心偽裝過的妓院

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    但是這個地方傑基·李

  • lNTERPRETER: This is a business club.

    「我們要告訴小姐們的」他說

  • Lots of businessmen come here.

    「第一個原則是她們的工作包括些什麼」

  • They negotiate,

    我們公司的第二條原則

  • and many agreements are even reached here.

    就是「我們的顧客就是上帝」

  • KOPPEL: That's true.

    所以我們的服務質量一定要跟上

  • All kinds of agreements are reached in places like this

    上樓之後

  • between businessmen or with a cop or local official

    一個接一個的隔間

  • whose help on one project or another may be useful.

    場地提供者江永寧把我帶到了 vip房間888號

  • Many wheels are greased at karaoke clubs.

    888號房,所有房號最吉利的

  • There's a lot of drinking and singing,

    這裡,女孩子們也是站成一排

  • but at the center of it all...

    直到顧客決定 要和哪個女孩子去開房間

  • [ Singing in Chinese ]

    她們多數都顯得楚楚可憐,年輕美麗

  • KOPPEL: ...are the young women.

    都到齊了 [我叫李彤,18歲;我叫趙嬌,17歲 我叫白茵,19歲;我叫周玉潔,18歲]

  • lNTERPRETER: What l see as the girls' job

    認出她們來了嗎?

  • is to cheer everybody up.

    她們當中有3個就是

  • They can sing well,

    我們剛才見到的那幾個購物的女孩子

  • they can drink a lot,

    他們承認在讓顧客

  • and they are very good

    覺得幸福和「性福」之間的界限很模糊

  • at improving the mood in the room,

    好多顧客會動手動腳

  • because everyone comes here for fun.

    你覺得他們來這

  • KOPPEL: There's a boisterous public area

    就是想找小姐出去開房的嗎?

  • where the customers sit and ogle the young women.

    是的,當然了

  • Walking in the rain

    後來她們又說,這個俱樂部的小姐

  • KOPPEL: But the reason the girls wear numbers

    都不會跟顧客開房間

  • is to advertise their availability

    有的KTV

  • and to encourage the customers to rent a hostess

    裡面的小姐是會和顧客去開房的,對嗎?

  • for the evening.

    是挺多的,但是我們想做正確的事

  • Ohh, ohh

    你們是怎麼想的呢,你覺得這樣行嗎?

  • Everybody in the house, come on

    遠離家鄉,來這?

  • KOPPEL: Some of these karaoke clubs

    挺值得

  • are just thinly disguised brothels.

    不,我覺得我應該上學的

  • This place, says Jackie Li, is not.

    年末的時候

  • "The first thing we do," he says,

    我要回家,去做服裝生意

  • "is spell out what the job involves."

    其實她以前就是做這行的

  • lNTERPRETER: The second point we tell our girls --

    白茵回到老家銅梁縣

  • our company's principle is "Treat our customers as God."

    在當地的一家服裝店工作

  • So we must provide good service.

    在那樣的一間KTV工作

  • KOPPEL: Off the main floor,

    是很難贏得別人的尊重的

  • corridor after corridor of private rooms.

    所以還不如不去呢

  • Field producer Jung Yung Ning takes me to VlP room 888.

    她父親對其在重慶當小姐的事

  • 888. Luckiest number of all.

    一無所知

  • KOPPEL: And here, too, the girls parade in

    她媽媽察覺到了什麼

  • until the customer finds what he's looking for.

    所以,堅決不讓女兒

  • [ Speaking Chinese in unison ]

    再回到城市裡工作

  • KOPPEL: Most of them look terribly young and vulnerable.

    我們只想平平安安的

  • And they are.

    簡簡單單地生活

  • Do you recognize them?

    其實只要我們自己本本分分的

  • Three of them -- and they come from the same town --

    別人怎麼樣我們真的管不來

  • are the girls you first met when they were shopping.

    這個小鎮在全國都很知名

  • They admit that it's a thin line in a place like this

    2200年前,火龍舞就是在此地

  • between entertaining a customer and "entertaining" a customer.

    誕生的

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    每當過農曆新年的時候 他們都會表演

  • lNTERPRETER: Some customers will always try to grope us.

    這已經成了傳統

  • KOPPEL: Do you think when they come here,

    但是傳統是為了銘記過去的

  • they expect that maybe some of you will go home with them?

    問題是沒有受過教育的年輕人

  • lNTERPRETER: Yes, definitely.

    以後靠什麼過生活?

  • KOPPEL: No girl from this club, they were quick to add, though,

    好吧,為什麼不呢?

  • would go home with a client.

    如今長城已經成為用於時裝走秀的

  • ln some karaoke bars,

    一個無限長的T型台了

  • the girls go home with the customers, right?

    設計師卡爾·拉格斐認為這個設計

  • lNTERPRETER: There are many, but l want to do what is right.

    十分吸引人,十分符合邏輯性

  • So, now that you think about it, was this a good idea?

    要是真的能成為T台就好啦 你要知道?!

  • Leaving your hometown and coming here?

    因為已經用不著去防禦蒙古人了

  • lt's worth it.

    不僅僅芬迪

  • No. l should be in school.

    豪雅表,路易威登,唐培裡儂

  • At the end of the year,

    世界上最大的奢侈品集團的所有者 而且其它奢侈品集團也最想要佔領的

  • l will go home and go into the clothing business.

    最具有消費潛力的

  • KOPPEL: Which is exactly what she did.

    市場就是

  • Bai Yin went home to the town of Tongliang

    ——中國!!!

  • and is now working in a local clothing shop.

    路易威登的世界銷售量是由亞洲產生的

  • Working in a club like that,

    現在對於中國而言

  • it's very hard to remain respectable,

    進口的東西就是奢侈品

  • so it's probably better just not to be there.

    本國的產品根本就談不上

  • KOPPEL: Her father has no idea

    高品質,高標準,以及創新

  • that she worked as a hostess in Chongqing.

    請注意

  • Her mother clearly suspects something

    好多藝人,設計師,還有模特

  • and is adamant that her daughter

    都被中國引進來了

  • will not be returning to the city.

    中國人對外國的東西情有獨鍾

  • lNTERPRETER: We just want our family to be safe

    更重要的是,他們肯掏錢去買

  • and to live a simple life.

    時裝設計,城市規劃

  • We want to keep to ourselves

    當然了,毋庸置疑

  • because it's hard to tell who is good and who is bad.

    中國人有一天 會賞識自己設計和製造的東西的

  • [ Mid-tempo music playing ]

    目前,他們依然對外國的東西

  • KOPPEL: This little town is famous throughout China.

    情有獨鍾

  • [ Gong banging ]

    這是你的得意之做吧?

  • This is where the Fire Dragon dance was born

    是的,我是總設計師

  • about 2,200 years ago.

    總工程量有300萬平方英尺

  • They perform it annually for the Lunar New Year.

    可能比我們三、四十個城市的總和

  • lt's quite a tradition,

    還要大

  • but tradition is about honoring the past.

    成本在5到6億美元之間

  • The question is how a young person without an education

    對於中國而言則更多

  • can build a future.

    因為美元比人民幣要值錢的多

  • Well, why not?

    本·伍德是名美國建築設計師

  • The Great Wall as an extended,

    受雇于億萬富翁文森特·羅

  • essentially endless fashion runway.

    他的員工基本上都是中國人

  • Designer Karl Lagerfeld considers the setting enchanting

    美國設計師

  • and entirely logical.

    因為他們長期

  • lt's better to be a runway, you know?

    對經濟具有重要影響 所以具有很高的社會地位

  • They don't have to fight against the Mongolians anymore.

    中國現在的發展進程我們都經歷過

  • KOPPEL: lt is certainly where LVMH -- owner of Fendi,

    所以,當我們設計五星級飯店

  • TAG Heuer, Louis Vuitton, Domrignon,

    還有南喜馬拉雅的豪華度假酒店時

  • the biggest luxury-goods group in the world -- wants to be --

    我們到過懷俄明州的 傑克遜荷爾郡的一個度假勝地

  • China,

    我們不僅僅去過 而且我們還在那住過一段時間

  • this enormous potential marketplace

    所以我們有這方面的經驗了

  • for all things Western.

    如果我告訴我們的員工說 要在拉薩設計一所

  • 40% of LVMH's world sales are generated in Asia,

    豪華酒店

  • and right now what defines luxury in China

    並且要那種可以吸引富人 和名人眼球的那種

  • is an expensive import.

    他們跟本就無從下手

  • Quality, creativity, and innovation

    因為他們從沒去過

  • are not seen as originating in China.

    也從來沒有見過富人或者是名人

  • Please note.

    他們其實和我們都是一樣的聰明能幹

  • The designer and many of the models

    而且訓練有素

  • and celebrities have been imported.

    但是就是因為沒有足夠的生活經驗

  • China's wealthy have a thing for all things foreign,

    所以沒有靈感來源

  • and, more to the point, they'll pay for it.

    陳京是個大學生

  • Fashion design, urban design.

    電影製片學士

  • Someday, no doubt,

    在華盛頓州留學的

  • the Chinese will appreciate their own creations.

    高中時代

  • For the moment, though, they place a higher value

    他就給自己取了個「艾倫」的名字

  • on anything produced by foreigners.

    他可能是重慶 最具藝術性最時尚的攝影師

  • This is your baby, right?

    但是他還是有些顧慮

  • WOOD: Yeah, l took a major role.

    怕會毀譽參半

  • This project's in excess of 30 million square feet,

    你跟我說過「這是文化的沙漠」

  • which is probably bigger

    重慶嗎? 為什麼這麼說呢?

  • than all but three or four dozen American cities.

    因為所有的一切都在發展呢

  • lt costs in the neighborhood of $50 to $60 billion U.S.,

    現在所有的重心

  • which in China means more

    全在經濟發展上

  • because the dollar goes a lot further here.

    一切都跟賺錢掛鉤嗎?

  • KOPPEL: Ben Wood is an American architect

    是的,反正我現在就是這樣感覺的

  • employed by the billionaire developer Vincent Lo.

    的確是這樣的,艾倫做的是廣告設計

  • He directs a staff that is primarily Chinese.

    其實這樣

  • WOOD: American architects,

    就是在為自己和客戶賺錢

  • because of their status of pretty much dominating

    但是他並不認為自己的工作 完全出於自己的創意

  • the economy for so long --

    有時我有了靈感 但是我的思路卻跟不上了

  • We've been to places that China's on the way to becoming.

    所以,你要知道,這種感覺很糟糕

  • And so when we design a five-star hotel

    我腦子突然間變空了,什麼都想不出來

  • or a luxury resort in the Southern Himalayas,

    你覺得為什麼會這樣呢?

  • we have been to a luxury resort in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

    為什麼你覺得在西方的時候

  • And we've not only been there, we've stayed there.

    會比在中國有更多的靈感?

  • We've experienced it.

    我覺得這是中式教育的結果

  • lf l tell my staff we're now going to design

    因為中式教育嗎?

  • a boutique hotel in Lhasa,

    中式教育不是鼓勵學生們去創造去想像

  • and it's gonna attract the rich and famous,

    他們只會告訴你,「一就是一

  • they have no idea where to start,

    二就是二,別忘了啊

  • because they've never been to one.

    一加一等於二!」

  • They've never met a rich and famous person.

    所以,根本就沒有想像這個環節

  • They're just as smart, just as bright,

    文森特·羅在重慶算是個大投資商人

  • just as well-trained,

    艾倫認為這種教育純粹是扼殺創意

  • but they don't have the life experience

    而羅卻認為這是

  • that translates into design.

    在為經濟發展提供穩定的基礎

  • KOPPEL: Chun Jing is college-educated,

    我覺得中國現在的政治制度

  • with a master's degree in filmmaking.

    對於中國現階段的發展特別有益處

  • Ever since he spent his junior year of high school

    我聽說中國政府最怕的就是

  • as an exchange student in Washington State,

    ——亂

  • he goes by the name "Alan."

    我覺得這也是我們所擔憂的

  • He may be Chongqing's most artistic fashion photographer,

    不僅僅是政府

  • but that's an observation Alan would consider

    如果很亂的話

  • damning with faint praise.

    我就不會投資上億了

  • You said to me, "This is a cultural desert" --

    往這個城市裡

  • Chongqing. Why?

    我們必須要有穩定的秩序 這樣我們才能發展

  • Because everything is developing.

    穩定認可甚至是要求平穩的價值體系

  • And the focus now here

    賣淫對中國的政治穩定不構成威脅

  • is in economic development.

    的確,這也讓年輕人有了個 可以宣洩自己的地方

  • Everything is about making money?

    好多人都去這些KTV

  • Yeah. And that's what l feel.

    但他們不是去密謀什麼政治活動的

  • KOPPEL: lndeed, Alan is producing provocative ads

    同志酒吧——是的

  • to do just that --

    同性戀遊行——最好不要去

  • make money for his clients and himself.

    雖然宗教信仰

  • But he doesn't consider his work genuinely creative.

    與我們剛才說的那些好像都不搭

  • Sometimes l just feel my imagination, my mind's blocked.

    在中國,宗教,也可能是非法的 但是可以被允許的

  • And, you know, l feel it's very terrible.

    艾倫·陳最近開始信奉基督教了

  • My mind is empty. l cannot create anything.

    「他的話就是我的信仰」

  • Why do you think that is so?

    每個禮拜二 艾倫都會去一個聖經學習團體

  • Why do you think there is more creativity in the West

    去繼續進行他對人倫道德的研究

  • than here in China?

    在學習的過程中

  • l think it's a result of the Chinese education.

    你有沒有新的斬獲呢?

  • Because the Chinese education

    生命的意義

  • does not encourage students to create or imagine.

    那生命的意義是什麼呢?

  • They just tell you, "One is one,

    生命的意義就是將我們的意志

  • two is two, and don't forget it.

    與上帝的意願相結合

  • One and one is two."

    我認為這非常重要

  • Yeah, so... No imagination.

    我過去常常認為我的夢想就是

  • KOPPEL: Vincent Lo is one of the biggest investors in Chongqing.

    開新車,開更豪華

  • The system that Alan perceives as stifling creativity,

    更貴的車,住更大的房子

  • Lo sees as providing the stability essential

    但是現在我覺得我生命的意義

  • for economic development.

    就是將自己的意志與上帝的意識相結合

  • l believe the political system for China at this point in time

    這就是他創造我的原因

  • is very effective for the country.

    我需要和上帝相結合

  • l've always been told that what Chinese governments

    這種更加人性化

  • fear the most is chaos.

    更安撫人心,不具有政治性

  • l'm sure that's something we are all concerned about, too.

    且不會擾亂社會生活的上帝

  • lt's not just the government.

    當然會被中國政府

  • lf this is very chaotic,

    所欣然容納

  • l don't think l'll be investing billions of dollars

    比如說羅馬大教堂

  • into the city.

    現在政府依然不承認其合法性

  • We need stability in order that we can do business.

    但是羅馬和北京似乎是殊途同歸

  • KOPPEL: Stability tolerates, even requires, safety valves.

    政府對天主教徒

  • Prostitution doesn't threaten China's political stability.

    也不怎麼迫害了

  • lndeed, it allows young men to let off steam.

    但是政府卻不能允許像法輪功

  • A lot goes on inside those karaoke bars,

    這樣的氣功

  • but they are hardly hotbeds of political activism.

    最高峰的時候 其成員竟有7000萬人之眾

  • Gay bars -- yes.

    1999年法輪功組織了靜坐示威

  • Gay-pride parades -- not on your life.

    萬名法輪功聚集在北京的

  • And while it may not seem

    中國共產黨黨委總部

  • that religion belongs in that company,

    這嚇壞了政府部門

  • in China, it, too, can be illegal but tolerated.

    從此以後法輪功就多次鬧事

  • [ Singing in Chinese ]

    如果你當基督教徒可以嗎?

  • KOPPEL: Alan Chun recently converted to Christianity.

    -是的 -一點問題都沒有

  • His word my hope... ♫

    但是你如果要加入法輪功…

  • KOPPEL: As part of his search for moral values,

    -哦,那可不行 -那樣會有大麻煩?

  • Alan now meets every Tuesday night with a Bible-study group.

    -是的 -為什麼?

  • What did you find in religion

    為什麼? 因為政府說法輪功屬於邪教

  • that you didn't have before?

    -我知道 -我們只是小市民而已

  • CHUN: The purpose of life.

    服從政府的領導

  • And that purpose is what?

    是每個市民的義務

  • The purpose is connect my own life

    我認為政府的命令就應該服從

  • with God's wish.

    他們那樣做是有原因的

  • l think it's very important.

    我信任我的政府,真的

  • l was thinking about to achieve my dream --

    這也可以叫作信仰 ——盲目的信仰

  • driving a new car, bigger car,

    中國現在越來越好了

  • expensive car, live in a bigger house.

    因此,政府做的都是對的

  • But now l feel my purpose of life

    一大早他們就在

  • must be connected to the purpose of God --

    重慶法院的大門口

  • why he make me.

    顯得非常堅定而且非常孤單

  • l need to connect myself with my God.

    我們不知道他們在抗議著什麼

  • [ Singing in Chinese ]

    但可以肯定的是

  • KOPPEL: And that kind of God,

    如果法院裡沒人出來傾聽他們的訴說

  • a personal, comforting, apolitical,

    他們是不會走的

  • noninterfering kind of God,

    目前根據中國政府

  • is perfectly in keeping with the goals and aspirations

    自己統計的數據

  • of the Chinese government.

    每年成百上千的示威遊行

  • [ Church bells ringing ]

    反映了公眾的不滿情緒

  • The Roman Catholic Church, for example,

    但是中國人是如何衡量幸福感的呢?

  • remains officially illegal.

    雖然投票不能夠完美地表明問題

  • But Rome and Beijing seem to be moving toward accommodation,

    這個民意調查小組

  • and Catholics these days are rarely persecuted

    已經走了大半個中國 為的是到處去調查民意

  • by the government.

    94年這個組織就開始在中國

  • The government does not tolerate the spiritual practices

    展開民意調查了

  • of Falun Gong,

    但是由於調查的是關於

  • at its peak, 70 million members strong.

    市場的民意調查: 中國消費者到底需要什麼

  • There was a silent protest in 1999.

    所以一直被中國政府所限制

  • 10,000 Falun Gong gathered in front of Party headquarters

    在這次的調查中

  • in Beijing.

    調查者一共進行了3000組 面對面的式民意調查採訪

  • That scared the government,

    被調查者只需要回答出

  • and Falun Gong has been out of bounds ever since.

    自己對幸福感所評估的指數 從1到10

  • lt's okay for you to become a Christian?

    蘇紫,一個小學教師 給出了6分的幸福指數

  • -Yeah. -That's no problem.

    首先說,中國的經濟在飛速發展

  • But if you wanted to join Falun Gong...

    人民可以有自己的財產

  • -Oh, no, no, no. -That would be a big problem.

    我認為這是個好事

  • -Yeah. -Why?

    這令我們的標準有些傾向於西方了

  • Why? Because the government said it's bad.

    我希望我的孩子可以受到良好的教育

  • -l understand. -We are citizens.

    現在的人們都在一心賺錢

  • lt's responsibility to follow --

    都在為自己的子女謀出路

  • to follow the government's orders.

    他們都不會討論

  • And l think the government's orders should be respected.

    到底自己沒有什麼自由權利

  • There must be a reason for them to do it.

    這個市場的大多數消費者

  • l believe in my government, yeah.

    對其生活現狀表示滿意

  • KOPPEL: Which is also a form of faith -- blind faith.

    我覺得是和5年前的狀況相比而言

  • Things in China are getting better.

    我覺得 現在他們對更多消費品有了所有權

  • Therefore, what the government is doing must be right.

    吳濤是中國民意調查團的團長

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    我覺得人們現在對將來的生活

  • KOPPEL: There they were one morning,

    更加充滿信心了

  • looking very determined and very much alone

    一般說來 如果你站在顧客的角度來想

  • in front of Chongqing's Court of Appeals building.

    如果你稍微看下調查數據

  • What was unclear is just what they were protesting.

    你就會覺得他們的確 對將來的生活非常樂觀

  • What was absolutely clear

    他們對將來很是充滿信心

  • is that they weren't going to move on their own

    現在就算是最底層的人們 也有一種樂觀的精神

  • until somebody inside agreed to listen to their complaint.

    民意調查團讓人們把現在的生活 與五年前的生活狀態相比

  • There are, according to the Chinese government's

    他們對下個五年有什麼期待

  • own statistics,

    在接受調查的143個國家中

  • tens of thousands of protests and demonstrations

    樂觀地講

  • every year reflecting public unhappiness.

    只有少數國家可以比得上 中國飛躍式的巨大發展

  • But how do you measure happiness in China?

    即使是艾倫·陳

  • [ Horn honks ]

    這個時尚攝影師

  • lmperfectly, which is to say by taking a poll.

    他也一直在追求著創意和新意

  • This group of roving Gallup pollsters

    也不知道對政治自由產生異議

  • has traveled across China collecting Chinese opinions.

    只有這樣的才算是對社會有用

  • The Gallup organization has been sampling public opinion in China

    因為當我告訴你

  • since 1994

    「在中國你是不可能有關於政治

  • and is limited by the government

    的不同的意見的」

  • to asking market-research questions,

    你說,「不,不,不,我愛我的國家」

  • determining what the Chinese consumer wants.

    我熱愛我們的政府

  • For this particular survey,

    政府正在竭其所能地建設這個國家

  • researchers conducted about 3,000 face-to-face interviews.

    所以,政治這個方面就不用

  • Respondents were asked to rank their happiness

    我來發揮我的創造性了」

  • on a scale of 1 to 10.

    明白兩者之間的聯繫了嗎? 明白我所說的了嗎?

  • Su Szu, a schoolteacher, ranked hers at 6.

    是的

  • [ Speaking Chinese ]

    我明白你剛才所說的了

  • lNTERPRETER: The Chinese economy is growing very fast,

    「艾倫,你說你愛你的國家

  • and people are able to own property.

    你愛你的政府」等等…

  • l think this is a good thing.

    是的,但是我注意到你用了 「熱愛」這個詞

  • lt's bringing us closer to Western standards.

    我必須說我熱愛我的國家

  • l hope my child will get a good education.

    但是我不熱愛我的政府

  • KOPPEL: People seem so focused on making money now

    我信任我們的政府

  • and providing a better life for their children down the road

    有意思

  • that there's almost no discussion

    我覺得這有點不同

  • of the freedoms they don't have.

    文森特·羅表示同意

  • The majority of the consumers in this market

    我在西方國家學習和生活過

  • are happy with the status quo of their life.

    但不幸的是,民主這個詞 當然,這聽起來不錯

  • l think compared to what happened five years ago,

    但,實際上 不能給你帶來什麼好結果

  • l think now they have more ownership of consumer products.

    中國在國際上承受著很多罵名

  • KOPPEL: Wu Tao is the director of research for Gallup in China.

    說中國很明顯是一黨執政

  • But l think people are also more hopeful

    還有什麼人權問題 還有別的類似問題

  • about what's gonna be happening in their life.

    但是這確是幫助中國

  • Generally, if you think about the consumers,

    在短時期內 發展到這個地步的不二法門

  • if you look at the data,

    這段時間僅僅只有30年

  • l think they are quite upbeat about the future.

    不論是那個美國建築設計師

  • They're quite optimistic about the future.

    還是本·伍德的評論

  • KOPPEL: Optimism extends to the poorest in society.

    你可以明白多少

  • Gallup asks people to compare their lives five years ago

    他和我認為

  • to what they expect five years from now.

    解決這一切問題只靠濫用的民主 是不可行的

  • Among 143 nations polled,

    應該是採用那些深謀遠慮的人們

  • only a handful of countries can match China's huge leap

    所制定的各項方針策略

  • in optimism.

    而且,考慮到這一點 我覺得在以後的20年中

  • Even Alan Chun,

    新中國的三成人口

  • the fashion photographer who's desperately searching

    都會住上這樣的地方呢

  • for creativity and innovation,

    -美國人都這樣說呢 -是的

  • doesn't understand how dissent and political freedom

    都說民主就是屁

  • might play a useful role.

    不是,不是 我以前是個戰鬥機飛行員

  • Because when l say to you,

    忠於國家

  • "ls it possible to have different ideas in China

    根本沒有

  • about how things should be done politically?"

    我只是說我和這些人們一起生活

  • You say to me, "No, no, no. l love my country.

    我很感激

  • l love the government.

    他們可以讓我載他們飛來飛去

  • The government is doing everything to help the country.

    如果中國採用了美國的那種民主的話

  • So, it's not up to me

    我就不會有這麼強的信心了

  • to be creative in that area."

    更不會往中國投入這麼大了

  • Do you see the connection? Do you see what l'm saying?

    為什麼這麼說? 你認為那樣的後果如何呢?

  • Yeah.

    因為我覺得 那樣發展的情況就一定不一樣了

  • l noticed just now you said,

    而且中心也會不一樣的

  • "Alan, you said you love your country,

    並且我認為我也不會在

  • you love your government." Blah-blah-blah, blah-blah-blah.

    重慶這樣的城市做這麼大的工程

  • Yeah, but l notice one word you use is "love."

    因為現在有穩定的局勢

  • l have to say that l love my country,

    穩定了才能有信心

  • but l don't love my government.

    5年之內才能繼續發展

  • l trust my government.

    我們看到的是持續發展

  • KOPPEL: lnteresting point.

    我們很清楚地可以看到 政府在追求的那個

  • l think it's different.

    非常明確的目標

  • KOPPEL: Vincent Lo agrees.

    而且我們商人也在追求那個目標

  • l have studied and lived in Western world.

    為了這個目標我們可以攜手合作

  • But, unfortunately, democracy -- Of course it sounds good,

    文森特·羅擔心政治自由

  • but, in practice, it doesn't always bring you the results.

    必然導致經濟的不穩定

  • And a lot of criticism has been put on China,

    艾倫·陳就壓根不知道什麼是政治自由

  • saying that this is a one-party system,

    隨時準備接受政府的所有許諾

  • human rights, and everything else,

    不管自己是否可以享受的到

  • but this is a system that has helped China

    我的問題是 如果人們想要集會

  • come to where it is in such a short time --

    比如說在鄉下

  • in the past 30 years.

    抗議政府腐敗

  • KOPPEL: Nor will you get much argument

    然後警察會來

  • out of Lo's American architect,

    他們會驅散這些集會人群

  • Ben Wood.

    但是他們卻不願意

  • He and l both agree that the best way

    哦,真的嗎?

  • to solve those problems is not by rampant democracy.

    是的,你剛說,「哦,真的嗎」 你沒有見過這樣的情況嗎?

  • [ Laughs ]

    我不知道 我從沒經歷過這樣的事

  • lt's by controlled change,

    我知道你沒有見過

  • informed by some very smart people over time.

    知道為什麼你沒有見過嗎?

  • And, with that in mind, l think over the next 20 years,

    為什麼?

  • a third of all new Chinese people

    因為政府不允許電視臺報道

  • will live in a place like this.

    不允許報社報道

  • -That's an American talking. -Yes.

    因為一旦有人在照相

  • Sort of pissing on democracy.

    他必然會被抓起來的

  • No! No, l'm a former jet-fighter pilot,

    這就是你不知道內情的原因吧 對不對?

  • loyal to the country.

    我不想讓你陷入麻煩之中

  • Not at all.

    我不想讓你說

  • l'm just saying l live with these people,

    你不願意說的任何事

  • so l can appreciate what it --

    沒事,沒關係的

  • what it's gonna take to get them from here to here.

    但是似乎你卻沒有在意

  • lf China is to adopt a Western-style democracy today,

    是的

  • l don't think l would have so much confidence

    不關心那些?

  • to invest all this money into China.

    不是非常願意關心那些東西

  • Why? What do you think the consequence would be?

    -不願意,嗯 -為什麼呢?

  • Because l'm sure the development would be very different,

    因為政府那樣做必然有自己的原因

  • and the focus will be very different.

    我真的十分信任政府

  • And l don't think l would be doing big projects like this

    因為你可以看

  • in a city like Chongqing.

    周圍的人們過上了 比以前好許多的生活

  • Because now you have stability.

    我覺得大在街上亂寫

  • Now you have confidence

    在大街上靜坐的人們

  • in what will happen five years from now.

    並不聰明

  • We can see continuity.

    他們不明智

  • We can see a very clear objective and goal

    我覺得這樣做是完全不對的

  • for the government to pursue

    如果是我的話,我絕不會這樣的

  • and for us as businesspeople to pursue.

    我覺得那並不明智

  • And we can work hand-in-hand for the good of the place.

    讓我們再回來看看

  • KOPPEL: Vincent Lo worries that political freedom

    那對在法院門口喊冤的老夫婦吧

  • might actually lead to economic instability.

    實際上 那些保安對他們已經很禮貌了

  • Alan Chun has never known political freedom

    甚至可以說很紳士了 當然了,這也許

  • and is quite prepared to accept the government's assurance

    是因為有我們這個國外攝製組在旁邊吧

  • that he doesn't need it.

    但是,這就是問題所在

  • My question is, if people want to get together --

    如果是幾年前 我們的攝影師就會被抓起來

  • let's say in the countryside --

    錄影帶也會被收繳

  • and protest corruption,

    中國現在正在經歷著深刻的變革

  • then the police will come

    確實正在經歷著深刻的變革

  • and they will break up the demonstration

    那對夫婦到底在喊什麼冤?

  • and they will not allow it.

    我們照會當地執法部門詢問此事 沒有人會搭理我們

  • Oh, really?

    事實上,沒有人會承認 剛才那幕曾經發生過

  • Yeah. You say, "Oh, really." You don't know that?

    中國人對國外汽車的貪婪

  • l don't know. l have never seen those things.

    比對國外的其它任何產品

  • l know you haven't seen it.

    都更能表明其對國外產品的渴望

  • You know why you haven't seen it?

    如果,中國人可以選擇任意一輛車 世界上的任意一輛車

  • Why?

    你知道,他們會選擇什麼車嗎?

  • Because television cannot report it.

    美國車,別克,黑色別克

  • Because the newspapers cannot report it.

    重慶,人們都喜歡別克汽車

  • Because anyone who is there, if they take a photograph,

    尤其是喜歡黑色車

  • they will be arrested.

    因為那是典雅和身份的象徵

  • That's why you don't know about it, right?

    去年,通用汽車公司旗下

  • l don't want to get you in trouble.

    在中國賣出的別克 比在美國賣出的還多

  • l don't want to make you say something

    這讓底特律和迪爾伯恩的士氣大降

  • you don't want to say.

    但通用汽車和福特只能勉強維持 滿足中國對汽車的需求

  • No, it's fine.

    這也不可能讓美國的汽車工人

  • But you don't seem to care about that.

    感到舒服

  • Yeah.

    只要他們解決了

  • You don't?

    安全和尾氣排放的難題…

  • Not very care about that part.

    中國將開始

  • -l don't, yeah. -Because?

    向美國出口自己的汽車

  • There must be a reason for government to do that.

    下期節目我們繼續講述

  • And l really believe in Chinese government

  • because we can see that people here

  • living a better life than before.

  • And l don't think the people

  • who wrote something on the street

  • or sitting on the street are smart.

  • They are not smart.

  • l don't think it's the best way to do that.

  • For me, l won't.

  • l don't think it's smart.

  • [ lndistinct talking ]

  • KOPPEL: Which brings us back

  • to that couple on the courthouse steps.

  • The fact that they were treated courteously,

  • even gently, certainly owed something to the fact

  • that our foreign camera crew happened to be on the scene.

  • But that's precisely the point.

  • A few years ago, our cameraman would have been arrested

  • and the tape would have been confiscated.

  • Some things change slowly in China,

  • but they are changing.

  • What was the protest about?

  • When we contacted the Justice Ministry, no one would say.

  • lndeed, no one would acknowledge that it even happened.

  • Nothing so epitomizes China's hunger

  • for all things Western

  • as its ravenous appetite for the foreign car.

  • So, if the Chinese could have any car, any car in the world,

  • you know what many, if not most, of them would choose?

  • An American car. A Buick. A black Buick.

  • TANG: The Buick are popular cars in Chongqing,

  • and they like black cars

  • because that represents elegance and status.

  • KOPPEL: Over the last year, General Motors

  • sold more Buicks in China than in the United States.

  • This won't do much for morale in Dearborn or Detroit,

  • but GM and Ford can barely keep up with the demand in China.

  • Nor is this likely to make American autoworkers

  • feel any better.

  • As soon as they work out

  • their safety and emissions problems...

  • [ Ship horn blowing ]

  • ...the Chinese will begin exporting their cars

  • to the United States.

  • We'll tell you all about it on our next program.

KOPPEL: This is a program about China,

「科佩爾探索」

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