English, I'm Neil. This is

the programme where in just

six minutes we discuss an interesting

topic and teach some

related English vocabulary.

And joining me to do this is Rob.

Rob: Hello.

Neil: In this programme we're

discussing schadenfreude.

Rob: Hold on, Neil - schadenfreude - that's

a German word.

Neil: Schadenfreude is what we can call a

loanword - a word from one language that

is used in another language

without being changed.

Rob: So you're right - schadenfreude is

used in English and am I right

in thinking it describes

the satisfying feeling you get

when something bad

happens to someone else?

Neil: You're right, Rob.

Imagine you're in a queue at the

supermarket and someone pushes in,

but when they got to pay, their credit

card doesn't work - think of the feeling

you might get just seeing their misfortune

- another word for bad luck.

Rob: Yes, that is a very satisfying feeling

- but it's quite a mean feeling too.

Neil: It is but we'll be discussing why that

feeling could actually be good for us. But

first, let's set a question for you, Rob, and

our listeners at home, to answer. This is

about false cognates - also called

false friends - words that look

the same in two languages

but have different meanings. So in English

we have the word 'rat' but what does that

mean in German? Is it... a) a big mouse,

b) annoyed or c) advice?

Rob: That's tricky because I don't speak

German. So I'll guess and say b) annoyed.

Neil: Well, I'll have the answer later on.

Now, let's talk more about schadenfreude.

Enjoying someone's misfortune can

certainly make us feel good.

Rob: And studies have shown this feeling

is quite normal - particularly

when is happens to someone we envy.

If we see a wealthy celebrity suffering on

a reality TV show, or are exposed

for not paying their taxes, we feel good.

We say they've had their comeuppance.

Neil: That's a good word - meaning a

person's bad luck that is considered

to be deserved punishment for

something bad that they have done.

Rob: Let's hear from psychologist

Wilco Van Dijk from the

University of Leiden, who's

been talking about this on the

BBC Radio 4 programme, All in the Mind.

What have his studies found about

our enjoyment of others misfortune?

Wilco Van Dijk: People especially feel

schadenfreude when they think

the misfortune is deserved.

Then the question is where this joy arises,

is this actually joy experienced towards

the misfortunes of others or is it

also at least partly joy about

a just situation - that this

misfortune of another actually appeals to

a sense of justice. That's also the reason

why we like the misfortunes of hypocrites

because if they fall down that also is a

deserved situation.

Neil: OK, so Wilco Van Dijk's studies found

we get joy when someone's

misfortune is deserved

- there is justice - in other words,

the punishment someone receives is fair.

Rob: And a just situation means

a fair situation - it is right.

So I guess he's saying we're

not just being mean.

Neil: Yes. And he also mentioned the type

of people whose misfortune is

just and deserved,

are hypocrites - people who claim to have

certain moral beliefs but actually behave

in a way that shows they are not sincere.

Rob: The All in the Mind programme also

heard from another expert

on the subject - author

and historian of emotions,

Dr Tiffany Watt-Smith. She talked about

how schadenfreude is a subjective

thing - based on our feelings - and it's not

as simple as deciding what

is right or wrong.

What word does she use that

means to express sympathy to someone

about someone's bad luck?

Dr Tiffany Watt-Smith: We don't really

experience emotions, you know, as

either-or things, it's not black or white.

I think it's perfectly reasonable that we

could genuinely commiserate

with someone else's misfortune

at the same time as a terrible sly smile

spreading across our lips because,

you know, something we've envied about

them has turned out not to work

out so well or whatever it is. You know,

we have a much deeper ability

to hold contradictory emotions in mind,

much more so than your average

moral philosopher would allow.

Neil: Interesting stuff. She says when

something goes wrong for someone,

we have the ability to commiserate with

them - that's the word for expressing

sympathy to someone about their

bad luck.

Rob: So overall, Tiffany Watt-Smith thinks

we have a range of emotions

when we experience

schadenfreude - but these are

contradictory emotions - different

and opposite emotions.

Maybe, Neil, we should just be

nicer people?

Neil: No way! I loved seeing Germany

getting knocked out of last year's

World Cup - not really!

Talking of Germany, earlier we mentioned

false friends and I asked in English we

have the word 'rat' but what does

that mean in German? Is it...

a) a big mouse, b) annoyed,

c) advice? And Rob, you said...

Rob: I said b) annoyed.

Neil: And that is the wrong answer,

I'm afraid. The right answer is c) advice.

Well done if you knew that at home.

Now on to the vocabulary we looked at

in this programme.

Rob: So today we've been talking

about schadenfreude - that describes

the satisfying feeling you get when

something bad happens to someone else.

Neil: And that's an example of a loanword

- a word from one language that is used in

another language without being changed.

In this case German.

Rob: We mentioned comeuppance which

describes a person's misfortune

that is considered to be deserved

punishment for something bad

that they've done.

Neil: Next we mentioned justice - that's

the punishment someone receives

that is fair for what they've done.

And the word just describes

something that is fair and right.

Rob: Hypocrites are people who claim to

have certain moral beliefs

but actually behave

in a way that shows they are not sincere.

Neil: And finally commiserate is a word

that means expressing

sympathy to someone about

their bad luck. That's the verb.

The noun form is commiseration.

Rob: Well commiserations, Neil, we've

run out of time for this programme.

See you soon,

goodbye.

Neil: Goodbye!