Chen. One of the red flags of a democracy that it isn't working real well is that

陳。其中一個，它不是真正的工作以及民主的紅旗是

the former president is in jail. That is true in just about any country. What are we doing

前總統是在監獄裡。這才是真正的在幾乎任何一個國家。我們在做什麼

to seek either the humane treatment or the humanitarian parole for the former President

尋求無論是人道的待遇或人道主義假釋前總統

Chen?

陳？

As you know, the former president was convicted on corruption charges after his 2008 presidency,

如你所知，前總統被裁定貪污指控他在2008年總統選舉後，

including the transfer of presidential office funds to private Swiss bank accounts. We believe

包括總統府資金轉移到瑞士私人銀行賬戶。我們相信，

that his conviction was in a system that is fair, impartial and transparent. Rule of law

他的信念是一個系統，是公平，公正和透明。法規

exists in Taiwan. In regard to your specific question, certainly we have heard varying

存在於台灣。關於你的具體問題，當然我們也聽到不同

accounts of the status of his health, and certainly we would want Taiwan to review his

他的健康狀況，及賬目當然我們希望台灣檢討自己

health condition. I am not aware of any or I don't have an update

健康狀況。我不知道有任何或我沒有更新

Let me go on to the next question. Taiwan is spending only half as much of GDP on defense

讓我去到下一個問題。台灣的國防開支只有一半的國內生產總值

as we are, I don't mind going to my district and say, Let's pay taxes, but Taiwan is

與我們一樣，我不介意去我區，並說，讓我們交稅，但台灣是

on the front lines. I am sure you've had discussions when they say they can't afford

在前線。我相信你已經有討論時，他們說，他們買不起

to spend anymore. We are all very concerned about the maintenance of their F16 aircrafts.

花了。我們都非常關心他們的F16飛機的維護。

The US taxpayers may not be able to pay for that. Taiwan has only a 5% value added tax.

美國納稅人可能無法為此付出代價的。台灣只有5％的增值稅。

Has the US pushed Taiwan not just to spend more on its defense, but if they say they

已在美國推台灣不只是花更多的關於它的國防，但如果他們說他們

don't have the money to make its value added tax or other taxes at the rate of our European

沒有足夠的資金來使其增值稅或其他稅項在我們歐洲的速率

allies who we also push to pay for their own defense?

盟友誰，我們還推來支付自己的防守？

On the issue of spending more, we have encouraged Taiwan to fulfill what it has said in the

上花費更多的問題，我們都鼓勵台灣去完成它在所說

past that it will spend up to 3% of their GDP on defense.

過去，這將花費高達其GDP的3％，在防守上。

Why do we accept 3% for them and including veteran benefits, 5% for us?

我們為什麼要接受3％，為他們及包括老將的好處，5％的我們呢？

This is what President Ma has stated in the past, and so we do hope that  [interrupted]

這是馬總統在過去曾表示，所以我們也希望[被對方打斷]

I think the best way to get the 3% is to start demanding 6%, or insisting that a good ally

我想獲得3％的最好的辦法就是開始要求6％，或堅持一個很好的盟友

that seeks our support for a country that faces possible eradication or forced incorporation

，旨在為我們在面對可能的消滅或被迫成立一個國家支持

ought to be doing well more than the US per capita, and I think if we start to talk about

應該人均做得很好比美國多，我認為如果我們開始談

the 6% then we may someday see 3 or 4% at the minimum. Finally, what are we doing to

6％，那麼我們可能有一天會看到3個或4％的最低水平。最後，我們在做什麼，以

push Taiwan to adopt better laws against the peer to peer websites for piracy movies?

推動台灣採用更好的法律對點對點網站的盜版電影？

I think that this is part of our economic engagement with Taiwan. What we've had said

我認為這是我們的經濟交往與台灣的一部分。我們已經說了

in the past, and this is in terms of all our dialogues, we would like to have a little

在過去，這是在我們所有的對話方面，我們希望有一點點

bit more confidence, especially in areas such as intellectual property protection...[interrupted]

多一點信心，特別是在諸如知識產權保護領域... [被對方打斷]

But are we specifically focusing on peer-to-peer websites, the lack of legislation in that

但是，我們特別注重對點對點的對等網站，在立法的缺失

area, and the pirating of our movies?

區，以及我們的電影盜版？

I am not aware of...(both speaking at once)...Intellectual property protection definitely is a priority

我不知道......（兩個同時說）......知識產權保護無疑是當務之急

of ours...

我們的...

A general statement about intellectual property protection won't have the specific effect

關於知識產權保護的一般語句將不會有具體效果

or may have no effect, compared to the specificity, and I hope that you will specifically focus

或者可能沒有效果，相比特異性，我希望你會特別關注

their attention on the peer-to-peer website piracy of our movies. Finally, what steps

他們的注意力在我們的電影同行的對等網站的盜版行為。最後，有什麼步驟

is the Administration taking to make sure that Taiwan has appropriate participation

被當局採取確保台灣有適當的參與

in international organizations, such as WHO, ICAO, and the climate control (UNFCCC—UN

在國際組織，如世界衛生組織，國際民航組織，氣候控制（UNFCCC-UN

Framework Convention on Climate Change)?

框架公約氣候變化）？

As I noted earlier, international space is a priority of ours, and we are looking for

正如我前面提到的，國際空間是我們的任務，我們正在尋找

opportunities for Taiwan experts and professionals to shine in their fields in international

台灣專家和專業人員的機會，在他們在國際領域大放異彩

flora. We will continue to do that. That really does help those organizations; it really helps

菌群。我們將繼續這樣做。這確實幫助這些組織，它確實有助於

the global community when they participate.

當他們參與全球社會。

Over the past few years and across two different administrations, we have witnessed an alarming

在過去的幾年中，並在兩個不同的管理部門，我們目睹了一個令人震驚的

number of gushing statements by senior American officials on the US's One-China Policy.

噴薄報表通過在美國的一個中國政策，美國高級官員的人數。

Last year, PLA (People's Liberation Army)'s General Chen Bingde, during a visit to Washington,

去年，解放軍（解放軍）的一般陳炳德訪問華盛頓期間，

claimed that the then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that the US policy maintains

聲稱國務卿當時希拉里·克林頓說，美國的政策維持

that "there is only one China in the world", and that "Taiwan is part of China." Not

說：“只有一個中國，世界”，以及“台灣是中國的一部分。”不

long after that, Admiral Mullen shared the view that "peaceful unification of China".

此後不久，海軍上將馬倫都認為，“中國和平統一”。

Let me ask you, the People's Republic of China, as we all know, is a dictatorship;

讓我問你，中國人民共和國，大家都知道，是一個獨裁政權;

it is a gulag state and would we have wished that reunification of West Germany into East

它是一個古拉格狀態，將我們所希望西德的統一，為東

Germany when Honecker was ruling as a cruel dictator in East Germany? I think not. So

德國在昂納克統治作為在東德一個殘酷的獨裁者？我認為不是。所以

I think those kinds of statements are not helpful. I do believe, and I want to ask your

我認為這些類型的語句也沒有什麼幫助。我相信，我想問你

view on this, as to whether the time has come for the Cold War relic, and I know all about

看到這一點，因為到時間是否已到，冷戰遺物，我知道所有關於

the Shanghai Communiqué, I've read it, and I've actually had an argument with Li

上海公報，我讀過它，我其實曾與李的說法

Peng in China, when we brought up the human rights [issues], and he said that the Shanghai

彭在中國，當我們長大的人權[問題]，他說，上海

Communiqué said nothing about the human rights at all. That was true, but he used it as a

公報避談人權可言。這是真的，但他用它作為

dodge and as a way of precluding any discussion on human rights. But shouldn't we have a

閃避和排除對人權的任何討論的方式。但是我們應該有一個

One-China, One-Taiwan policy?

一個中國，一個台灣的政策？

And secondly, if you could, the Taiwan Relations Act Section 2 points out that the "enactment

其次，如果你能，台灣關係法第2條指出，“制定

of this Act is necessary to help maintain the peace, security and stability in the Western

本法是必要的，有助於維持西方的和平，安全與穩定

Pacific". What are the consequences of the US if Taiwan were to come under PRC control,

太平洋“，什麼是美國的後果，如果台灣受到中國的控制，

and do we fully realize that such a shift would have devastating implications for US's

而且我們充分認識到，這種轉變將會對美國的毀滅性影響

long standing security partners and allies of East Asia including Japan and South Korea?

長期的安全合作夥伴和東亞盟國，包括日本和韓國？

What I'd like to point to is most recently, as you may probably have seen in the press

我想指出的是最近，你可能可能已經看到在報刊

that there has been more dialogue between the two sides of the Strait recently, the

有一直是海峽兩岸之間更多的對話最近，

head of the Mainland Affairs Council of Taiwan Wang Yu-Chi with Zhang Zhe-Jun, head of the

台灣泓宇馳的陸委會與張喆君，頭部的頭

Taiwan Office. We have gone on record as saying that we support that kind of warming of ties.

台灣辦事處。我們都在不同的話說，我們支持的那種關係變暖。

And I think that one of the reasons why there has been such discussions is that we have

我認為，原因為何一直存在這樣的討論之一是，我們有

been so supportive of Taiwan, giving them the confidence, so they can have this kinds

一直支持台灣，給他們信心，使他們能夠有這樣的種

of dialogue. So I think we do have a very strong record of that. We do support the increased

的對話。因此，我認為我們確實有一個非常良好的記錄。我們支持增加

dialogue between the two sides. In terms of consequences, I wouldn't want to get into

雙方之間的對話。在後果方面，我不會想進入

any sort of hypothetical scenarios here. I don't think that that is something that

任何形式的這裡假設情景。我不認為這是什麼，

we view as very likely right now.

我們現在看到的很有可能。

What happens? We do have scenarios that we consider at the Pentagon and at the State.

發生了什麼？我們也有我們認為在五角大樓和國務院的情景。

It's not something that is sort of a normal feature of our discussions, these types of

這不是東西，是我們的討論中，這些類型的排序的正常功能

hypotheticals. What I can say is that I heard your remarks about the One-China Policy. But

假想智慧。我可以說的是，我聽說你對一個中國政策的言論。但

this is a policy that has endured through many administrations and...I think that what

這是一個已經經過許多主管部門經歷了一個政策，......我認為，

we have done, and much of this has to do with the TRA but it has given Taiwan a great deal

我們已經做了，並且這在很大程度上，是因為有台鐵，但它給了台灣一個很大的

of confidence over the last years to increase the kind of intensity of discussions with

信心在過去幾年增加了一種與討論強度

the PRC, knowing that the US is always in support is greatly comforting to the Taiwan

在中國，知道，美國是一直都支持大大安慰台灣

side.

側。

But frankly, some of our diplomats including our former Ambassador Bellocchi has suggested

但坦率地說，我們的一些外交官，包括我們前駐華大使Bellocchi的建議

that the ambiguity and the statements that may have made could send the wrong signal

歧義和可能作出的陳述可能發出錯誤的信號

to the PRC, particularly as they build up militarily in and around or in proximity to

在中國，尤其是他們和周圍或附近建立軍事上

Taiwan. And with the saber rattling we see occurring in the South China Sea and an ever

台灣。並與磨刀霍霍，我們在中國南海和不斷看到發生

expansive foreign policy, the ugliness towards Japan coming out of Beijing, the useful diplomatic

擴張性外交政策，對日現身北京的醜陋，有用的外交

affection, perhaps it was useful for a while, seems to me that it could inadvertently lead

親情，也許這是一個雖然有用，在我看來，它可能會無意中導致

to miscalculations by Beijing about what happens if they take Taiwan.

要失算了北京，如果他們拿台灣發生的事情。

I don't think that Beijing questions US resolve on the Taiwan issue. We continue to

我不認為北京質疑美國決心在台灣問題上。我們將繼續

be extremely supportive and we continue to expand our unofficial relations and that I

非常支持，我們將繼續擴大我們的非官方關係，以及我

think does a great deal to help strengthen and to allow for a more peaceful and stable

覺得做了很大的幫助加強和允許一個更加和平穩定

environment across the Strait.

環境兩岸。

I have a one statement before I ask any questions that echoes the Chair's comments. I recently

我有一個聲明要求相呼應主席的意見的任何問題之前，我。我最近

visited Taiwan and met with many government officials, and I found it very very educational

訪問台灣，並會見了許多政府官員，我覺得非常非常有教育意義

and I too believe very strongly that the State Department and the Government should understand

而我也堅信，國務院和政府應該明白

the importance of Taiwan being a part of the TPP. And I think that should be a message

台灣的重要性，即TPP的一部分。我認為這應該是一個消息

back. So before I ask a question, many of us think strongly believe that we should do

回來。於是我問一個問題之前，我們很多人認為堅信，我們應該做的

whatever we can to encourage that kind of development.

所能，以鼓勵這種發展。

When I was there, I was very impressed with the cross strait dialogue that was going on

當我在那裡，我很深刻的印象，這是怎麼回事了兩岸對話

between Taiwan and the PRC. I would like to know what is our State Department's involvement

與台灣及中國。我想知道什麼是我們國務院的參與

in that dialogue between Taiwan [and China]. How can we be helpful in promoting engagement

在台灣[與中國]之間的對話。我們如何可以幫助促進參與

between China and Taiwan? It seems to me that President Ma was very proud of the agreements

中國與台灣的？在我看來，馬總統很是得意的協議

that already had been made, especially the trade agreement, the increased tourism that

已經已經取得了，尤其是貿易協定，增加旅遊業的

was going on, the increased flights that were going on between. What are our involvement

是怎麼回事，那個被之間正在進行的增加航班。什麼是我們的參與

in that has been? The second question is, what is your perspective on the current and

在一個已經？第二個問題是，什麼是你的視角對當前和

forthcoming political situation in Taiwan, including the 2016 presidential election in

即將舉行的政治局勢在台灣，包括在2016年總統大選

which President Ma will be turned down. How will that affect the cross-strait relationships;

而馬總統將被拒絕。這將如何影響兩岸關係;

will that be one of the defining characteristics in terms of that election?

那將是在該次選舉方面的特徵之一？

In terms of cross strait dialogue, we don't play a direct role. They've had direct talks.

在兩岸對話方面，我們並沒有起到直接作用。他們已經直接會談。

In fact, the dialogue that I was referring to between Wang Yu-Chi and Zhang Zhe Zhen,

事實上，我指的是王鈺琪和張喆臻之間的對話，

was really the first time in 60 years of such a discussion...What we have done is we have

真的是第一次60年這樣的討論......我們所做的是我們有

given Taiwan a great deal of confidence, through our policies and through our direct assistance

給台灣一個很大的信心，通過我們的政策，並通過我們的直接援助

and that has enabled them to have more engagement across the strait. We believe that more engagements,

並且使他們有兩岸更多的參與。我們相信，更多的訂婚，

especially if it's at a pace that is consistent with the aspirations of the people on Taiwan,

尤其是如果它的步伐是與台灣人民的願望相一致，

for people of both sides of the Strait, we would very much support that, because we believe

為兩岸的人民，我們會很支持，因為我們相信

that creates a more stable and peaceful environment, but it does have to come at a pace that the

創建一個更加穩定與和平的環境，但它確實有來的步伐，該

people on Taiwan feel comfortable with.

台灣人民感到舒服。

In terms of the upcoming election, we don't speculate on how that's going to affect

在即將到來的選舉的事宜，我們不會就如何，那將影響猜測

cross strait relations but it's a good time to highlight how we have been and still are

兩岸關係，但它是一個很好的時間來彰顯我們如何一直並且仍然是

on the thriving democracy that exists in Taiwan. It is really remarkable. Just personally...the

在欣欣向榮的民主存在於台灣。這實在是了不起。只是個人的...

first time I went to Taiwan was in 1978. You just cannot imagine the change that's taking

我第一次去台灣是在1978年。你不能想像的服用這種變化

place there. Mr. Chairman, when you go to Taiwan, it just highlights the kind of values

放置在那裡。主席先生，當你去台灣，它只是突出了那種價值觀

that they share with us. You know very well that it is this kind of energetic kind of

他們與我們分享。你很清楚，正是這種充滿活力樣的

democracy that exists there and so I won't speculate; we don't get involved in their

民主存在那裡，所以我不會推測，我們不涉足他們的

domestic policies and how that is going to play out in terms of the cross-strait policy

國內政策，以及如何，是要發揮出在兩岸政策方面

in the future. But it is really a good time to celebrate; it is a remarkable story in

在未來。但它確實是一個很好的時間來慶祝，這是一個了不起的故事

Asia—the democracy that exists in Taiwan.

亞洲的存在於台灣的民主。

I would like to personally thank Mr. Sherman for raising the issue of President Chen, which

我想親自感謝謝爾曼先生籌集陳總，問題的

he did strongly when we were on the Co Del (Congressional Delegation) recently in Taiwan.

他極力做，當我們最近分別對公司德爾（國會代表團）在台灣。

Prior to that trip, I've been there about a year ago, with another of my Democratic

在這之前的行程，我一直在那裡大約一年前，與我的另外一個民主的

colleagues, the ranking member of the Asia Pacific Committee, Eni Faleomavaega. And on

同事，亞太委員會，埃尼法列歐馬瓦埃加的高級成員。和

that particular Co Del, Eni and I went down to the prison where President Chen is being

該特定有限公司德爾，埃尼和我去了那裡，陳總統正在監獄

held. He has been there going on five years now. You are correct, there is conviction

舉行。他一直有事情現在五年。你是正確的，有信念

for corruption charges. We understand that completely. There's a whole lot of aspects

腐敗指控。據我們了解，完全。還有一大堆方面

of that which we can discuss in great detail. For example, there is an argument that there

這其中我們可以很詳細的討論。例如，有一種說法，有

was a judge that was more favorable to him that was replaced by a judge who was less

是法官認為更有利於他，取而代之的是法官誰是少

favorable. There are all kinds of stories that you hear; I don't want to go to all

有利的。有各種你聽到的故事，我不想去所有

the details about that.

有關的詳細信息。

But the fact is that he has been in prison now for going on five years. I've read the

但事實是，他一直在監獄現在正在進行五年。我讀過的

medical reports; I've talked to the doctors who have examined him. I have seen him with

醫療報告，我已經說過了誰已經研究了他的醫生。我見過他

my own eyes. I have met with him many times when he was the President of Taiwan. He is

我自己的眼睛。我曾與他很多次，當他是台灣的總統。他是

the second democratically elected president, served for eight years. And I think Mr. Sherman

第二任民選總統，擔任了八年。而且我認為謝爾曼先生

is absolutely right when he says that there is something wrong when one administration

絕對是正確的，他說，有什麼不對的，當一個政府

comes in, and the previous administration is in prison. Something is not right. I've

進來，和上屆政府是在監獄裡。什麼是不正確的。我已經

seen, again, with my own eyes. The man has Parkinson's; he shakes constantly; he's

可見，再次，我自己的眼睛。該名男子有帕金森，他不斷地抖動，他是

got cardiovascular problems, depression, a whole range of things. We've talked to President

有心血管疾病，抑鬱症，對事物的整個範圍。我們已經說過了總統

Ma and others about it, and I believe that medical parole, as Mr. Sherman mentioned,

我馬和其他人關於它，並相信保外就醫，如謝爾曼先生所提到的，

is a logical Chen medical parole. We are not saying that he'd be free, but at least he can go home to his

是一個合乎邏輯的陳保外就醫。我們並不是說，他就可以自由了，但至少他可以回家了

family for whatever years that he has left.

家庭因為種種多年來，他已經離開了。

As I noted earlier, we have the confidence in the fairness and the impartiality and transparency

正如我前面提到的，我們有信心在公平性和公正性和透明度

in Taiwan's judicial system. And we have made clear to Taiwan our expectation that

在台灣的司法制度。我們已明確向台灣我們預期

procedures governing the terms of Chen Shui-Bian's imprisonment and access to health care will

執政的陳水扁的監禁，並獲得衛生保健的條款將程序

be transparent, fair, and impartial, and so if there are occasions, and this is just a

是透明，公平，公正，所以如果有場合，而這僅僅是一個

general statement from the US Government, when there are cases, when there are such

從美國政府，當有情況下，當有這樣的一般性發言

health concerns, we would...make note of that to, in this case, the Taiwan Authorities,

健康的關注，我們將...記下，要在這種情況下，台灣當局，

but other governments as well, when there may be some humanitarian considerations that

但其他國家的政府，以及，當可能會有一些人道主義考慮，

could be made. But certainly, we believe that the original case was tried [interrupted]

可以作出。但可以肯定，我們認為原來的情況下被審判[被對方打斷]

I am not talking about the original case; I am talking about NOW. Still that was an

我不是在談論原來如此，我說的是現在。還是這是一個

excellent answer. But my question is, does the Administration have a position on medical

優秀的答案。但我的問​​題是，政府是否有醫療上的位置

parole? Well, is there a position? You said he ought to be treated humanely in prison;

假釋？那麼，有沒有位置？你說他應該在監獄人道待遇;

we are saying that he shouldn't be in prison at this point in time. He has been in prison;

我們說他不應該在監獄裡在這個時間點。他已經在監獄裡;

he is there now. We are saying that medical parole should be granted...Do you have a position

他在那裡了。我們說，保外就醫應授予......你有一個位置

on that? Should he be granted? If you don't have one, that's okay. But I just would

在那？如果他被授予？如果你沒有的話，那也沒關係。但我只是會

like to know.

想知道。

I don't think we take the position [interrupted]

我不認為我們採取的立場[被對方打斷]

Okay. All right. Thank you. That was my question. I will ask you another position if you have

好吧。好的。謝謝。這是我的問題。我會問你一個位置，如果你有

this. The President, the Vice President, the Defense Minister and the Foreign Minister

這個。總統，副總統，國防部長和外交部長

[of Taiwan] can't come to Washington, D.C. We want to meet with them, we have to go to

[台灣]不能到華盛頓特區，我們希望與他們見面，我們必須去

San Francisco, or Baltimore, or [somewhere]; they are not allowed to come to the capital

舊金山，或巴爾的摩，或[地方]他們不能來京城

of the United States, which I think is a travesty for a close ally of the US. We have introduced

美國，我認為這是一個嘲弄了美國的親密盟友。我們引進

legislatures innumerable times to dump that policy, which I think is unfair to Taiwan.

立法無數次傾倒的政策，我認為這是對台灣不公平。

Does the Administration have a position on that?

政府是否在該位置？

We continue to have our One-China Policy that is set forth in the Three Joint Communiqués...[interrupted]

我們繼續有載於三個聯合公報我們的一個中國政策... [被對方打斷]

I am aware of that. Do you have a position on whether they should come here?

我知道這一點。你對他們是否應該來這裡的位置？

In terms of the travel of Taiwan Authorities that is consistent with those policies—our

在台灣當局的行程是與這些政策，我們一貫的條款

One-China Policy ... [interrupted]

一個中國的政策... [被對方打斷]

So you believe we should continue the President, the Vice-President, the Foreign Minister—so

所以，你認為我們應該繼續總統，副總統，外交部長，所以

they should not be able to come to Washington, D.C.?

他們不應該能來到華盛頓特區？

I think our policy has been very consistent over a number of administrations [interrupted

我認為我們的政策一直在很多主管[打斷非常一致

by "I am asking for an answer of yes or no"] and I believe that we will continue.

通過“我要求的是或答案不”]，我相信，我們將繼續。

So you are saying that they are not to be allowed to come here; continue with that policy.

所以，你說他們是不是被允許來到這裡，繼續該政策。

We are saying that we should change that policy. You say stick with it.

我們要說，我們應該改變這一政策。你說的堅持下去。

I say that our policy has been consistent and I believe

我說，我們的政策是一貫的，我相信