What is the panel going to do about him?

Got Lena.

Can you just tell us a bit more about that?

So you're local to this area?

He was 13 when he was first marked on the high street, which is the Aten, which is a big main road.

Hey, just outside this building, yeah, on once in a little park, half three on a Sunday afternoon in broad daylight.

And, uh, but he's part of a generation of Children growing up in these parts.

Who for them, it's just something that happens.

Kate here, her son was marked as before Christmas.

It's just like, you know, this.

This is just it's an epidemic on DDE.

Uh, there's to be no sort of resolution in terms of arresting people.

No, no, no.

In any of those instances.

And what about UK sitting it?

Has there been any anyone arrested foot for your son know nothing until now?

No, The case was closed after one day.

Well, that must have been terrifying for the boys and also for years.

His parents.

Trevor, do you want to kick us off on this?

Uh, I am.

Why should first say that?

Full disclosure.

I was born 10 minutes from here.

Andi, I grew up in this area.

I lived in up the roads.

Everybody in this room will know where wood green is in a postcode, which is N 20 to 6 SX.

The typical number off domestic off sexual and violent crimes in a London postcode is 26 in the post code where I grew up.

It is 226 last year 226.

So this is not for it's not across the city, but where it is.

It is incredibly serious.

And I I completely feel for you.

There are three young people, mostly young men dying in this city every week from knife crimes.

We there are two women who died from domestic violence every week, and we have rightly plowed enormous attention and resources into that.

We are not yet doing the same thing for these young people.

And I think we need to be clear what we're talking about when we're talking about night crime.

This is not some accidental thing What is happening here is young people are being hunted down by packs off other people.

They're being stabbed on, a stolen from the ones who are dying.

There are hundreds in the city who are being stabbed.

And forgive me for being absolutely blunt about this.

There is now a thing that they do.

They stopped kids in the heinous, so they have to wear colostomy bags.

This is vicious.

It's a war and it's out of control.

And we in the authorities seem not to be interest to interested except to say, Let's have an argument about Are there more police?

Are there more cut?

Actually, everybody knows about this.

Note that these kids are doing this in a way that you'd have to have North Korea levels of policing to catch him at it.

So I think we've got to do some different things.

First, we will go to understand what's happening here, and the first thing is, who's doing do the killing and who's doing dying and let me be absolutely frank.

It is young black men who are dying and, by the way, young black men who are doing the killing.

So we need to focus on those communities on those areas and not pretend this is something which is just abstract.

Secondly, we need to help some of the communities where the young people have come straight from war zones in this area.

I think everybody here will know what I'm talking about.

We throw them into schools for people who need for people who don't live in here.

That way.

London is very mixed communities, vibrant all the rest of it.

And we've received rightly people from terrible backgrounds, trauma, Children who have seen their relatives killed in front of them.

And what do we do?

We put them straight into school.

We don't help him.

We don't give them therapy.

That's a kind of thing we need to do.

We need to spend first of all, locate the problem properly.

Secondly, we need to spend as much as we can to help these young people find a way through.

I mean, I could talk about this all night and I know I haven't got time.

I feel so passionately about this.

I'm sorry, I could go on about it, but let's take this seriously on.

Let's not turn this.

Let me print into an argument about who's going to spend more and more police.

That is not going to be the answer.

The answer here is recognized.

Who is killing who is dying and help those people, Not some general policy, Theo, Just to add to what Trevor's things we have knife offenses, the motor of the highest level ever recorded.

And then today, in terms of offenses recorded that then result in a suspect being charged or summons.

That's a record low around just 7% of offenses.

So, Mike, obviously, I'm gonna come to, you know, as an ex chief constable of Durham, and you've got first experience off trying to deal with this.

What's what's your view?

What did you do in Dome to try and have an effect?

I'll come to that if I may feel that.

First of all, Lean and Kate dreadful that you've had to go serve nation, particularly our Children.

And after the show.

If if you want to see me, then I'm sure you're being looked after.

But I can certainly just make sure that I'm sure the Metropolitan Police and the victim support are doing their best.

But I would just if you want?

I could just cast an eye over that for you.

This is my fault.

This is the fault of the police.

Because for 39 years now I've done your bidding.

I've done it rather well.

Actually, I'm found himself.

I've locked up a lot of drug dealers when I've locked them up, put them in the court, have gone to prison for a long time.

But two hours, hours after I've locked them up behind my back, two more violent drug dealers have tried to take over the patch and the most violent Warner's one.

So then I go after the most violent drug dealer that's taken over from the previous one, and this is a Darwinian spiral of violence.

Then we're quite sneakers.

Cops.

We employ undercover cops and we employ double agents on the drug dealers worked out that we don't employ people who were 13 and 14.

So that's who they recruit to do their bidding.

The people who deliver all the drugs that's wanted in London, principally under 17 on.

We've created that we've created that because we've done your bidding.

We are never going to arrest.

I agree with Trevor.

We are never going to arrest our way out of this problem.

Of course, the police have got a role to play.

Of course, we've got to investigate crime.

And of course, it's vital that the attacks on Leaner and Cates Children are investigated fullest extent.

But the Watsons 2010 half had had an impact.

There's got to be a grown debate about drugs 39 years ago when I joined placing most of the heroin in this country came from Afghanistan.

It still does.

We've got the same number of police officers, but 100 times more heroin coming from Afghanistan.

So what's the answer?

Well, the young sarees got to be youth and social provisions.

We've got to prevent this.

Gotta get upstream on DDE.

Sadly, the cuts to pleasing are a mere shadow of the cups to local authority.

Budget sold last 10 years.

Yeah, it is concerning what they to lady said over there.

Three years ago I was mocked while in label I weigh Toho Martin Auntie, Two days in the hospital.

Yeah, just down days Stuff for hell Anti Today I haven't had any arrests.

Andi clears his clothes andare not at him where I live now in 17th just behind my window, three men fought and killed themselves.

I watch everything and nobody us if I'm feeling okay.

The psychological effect of the past one.

This thing where the killings that have passed away this year just behind my window and no one has acts.

How are you faring?

Are you OK?

Apart from my family?

Wasn't doing my school runs for me.

So I just want to know, isn't it right for for the government to set out some organization that can give advice?

Hunt, you know, anyway, tohave the victims.

And how are you faring?

So So, Theresa, when you heard the woman there speak so powerful and also heard what might have to say in terms of policing numbers to a certain extent, but nonetheless has made an impact.

And also but as nothing might was saying relative to the cuts to local authority budgets.

And then we've had a conservative government the last 10 years.

Well, this current situation is intolerable.

The upsurge in knife crime has to be dealt with.

Andi, we are determined to do that.

And do you feel in part responsible when you hear someone like my talk about cuts, the local authority budgets, I believe that we need to recruit 20,000 more police.

We're committed to doing that.

We need a strong police.

In response, we've strengthened stopping search powers, which are crucial.

We're giving police the Tasers they have requested on.

We also fully recognize that we need to invest more in the programs to prevent young people from getting involved in gangs and crime in the first place.

And so we've got £700 million worth of programs plan now for exactly that, we need a junior approach.

That's a tough policing response to bring the perpetrators to justice, but also a really comprehensive route to try and ensure that young people do not get involved in this kind of cycle of violence in the first place.

And to promote that public health approach which has worked so well in Glasgow on many cities in the United States.

That is this not just making up for the cuts that you've already made.

No, it's not.

I mean, if you look at the last time this upsurge in violent crime on the streets of London happened, that was in around 2008 on actually, Boris, as mayor of London, brought the murder rate down by 50% and it went down across the country, not just in.

It is possible to do this, and we are determined to do this because we have to keep the only people on the streets of this city on others safe.

There's a lot of hands up, so I'm gonna try it.

If you give, I'm just gonna get around the audience a little bit.

Yes, I just want to follow through with water travels said about the people who are killing are within the black community.

The people who are dying are within the black community.

So does it mean then that because it's a problem belonging to a particular section of a society, that our government, it does not understand the need or has become desensitized about this population?

This group off our population who for some reason, a mer a result from a vicious cycle of deprivation that no one cares to look into?

I don't know that policing is the answer to it.

I don't know that the political argument about investment is the right answer to this problem.

We need to look for the gun days.

I'm gonna come back.

I think you're absolutely right.

This problem began way before cuts to the Met.

It began with the up complete abolition of youth service is in all the areas we've just seen.

Local service is for you to just stripped out of communities and young men have nowhere to go.

They have nowhere to help turn.

They have no support.

Where did they turn?

They turn to each other.

They become each other's families.

Three cornerstones to young people becoming successful.

Adults are self esteem, confidence, self worth on the places where they were getting that were you?

Service is without that.

This is where the problem began.

No, I think these issues are driven by people's consumptions in London.

Is that cocaine capital of Europe?

I'm sure we've all been to parties.

I have where it's like, visibly on show, and people have no qualms about using it on DDE.

These people who drawing these dang's they see it because there's money in drug dealing, and so maybe the government needs to look it's drug policies as well.

And maybe there's kind of an option in a de criminalization model I have in Portugal or something that might actually solve it from the demand side.

I have seen no parties I go to.

That may be on the man in the gray swift.

Thank you, Tripp.

I do agree with what you said about.

It's not just police numbers, but I don't think you can underestimate the conservative government's cuts that the police numbers because they're the extra 20,000 police officers that Boris Johnson is gonna recruit will be only just begin to bring the levels back to where they were.

But it's such a significant.

I think the police number cuts and it has to be taken to consideration the part that has played in life crime.

I think you're right.

I think that we're not just talking about cuts to police numbers.

We're also talking about the about the community support officers who used to be the eyes and ears he used to run the boxing clubs in my area who used to actually have a connection with the community and be able to because communities cannot be pleased, they don't policing isn't something which is done to a community can only be done with the agreement of the community and you must work with the community.