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字幕列表 影片播放

  • October 21st, 2009:

    2009年10月21日

  • I send an email to Peter Joseph requesting an on-camera interview...

    我給彼德·約瑟夫發了Email 要求鏡頭前的訪問...

  • ...No Response

    ...沒有回覆

  • November 3rd, 2009:

    2009年11月3日

  • I send another email to Peter Joseph...

    我再次發Email給彼德·約瑟夫...

  • Response!

    回覆了!

  • Response! (November 10th)

    回覆了! (11月10日)

  • "Charles, I am very busy at this time... I will be in and out of town this month.

    "查爾斯 我現在很忙... 這個月我會往返於城內

  • Try me in early Dec. thx, Peter"

    試試在十二月上旬聯繫我 感謝 彼德"

  • December 1st, 2009:

    2009年12月1日

  • December 1st, 2009: I send another email to Peter Joseph requesting the interview...

    2009年12月1日:我再次Email給彼德·約瑟夫 要求採訪...

  • ...(waiting)

    ...(等待)

  • December 5th: "...fine- I'll give you 2 hrs. I'm in Bushwick..." P

    12月5日:"...好的 我給你兩個小時 我在紐約的Bushwick..." P

  • Who is Peter Joseph?

    彼德·約瑟夫是誰?

  • A Mini-Doc by Charles Robinson

    查爾斯·羅賓森製作 微型紀錄片

  • www.whoispeterjoseph.com

    www.whoispeterjoseph.com

  • Background

    成長背景

  • My name is Peter Joseph. I live in Brooklyn, New York. I'm 31 years old.

    我是彼德·約瑟夫 住在紐約的布魯克林區 31歲

  • I am an independant film maker and I suppose the de facto founder of an organisation called;

    我是獨立製片人 一個被稱為"時代精神運動"

  • "The Zeitgeist Movement"

    的創建人

  • As far as my background, I was born to what I consider to be a middle class family.

    就我早期的背景而言 我出生於一個我認為是中產階級的家庭

  • My father was a... is now a retired postal employee,

    我父親曾是... 現在是退休的郵政員工

  • and my mother is a retired Child Protective Services employee.

    我母親是一個已退休的 兒童保護服務機構員工

  • In fact, a lot of my social dispositions on society I think might come from

    事實上 我對社會的許多看法可能來自於

  • the experiences I had listening to the stories coming from my mother.

    我從母親那裡聽來的教導和經驗

  • I started getting interested in music I think at about eight or nine.

    我在八或九歲時開始對音樂感興趣

  • I seemed to fall into a love of percussion and drums and rhythm.

    我有點癡迷於敲擊鼓和節奏

  • I was very lucky to be accepted to a school in North Carolina,

    我很有幸進入北卡羅萊納州的學校

  • an art school in a university,

    一個藝術大學

  • which allowed me to grow up in a very different upbringing

    我認為比起那些大部分成長於

  • than I think most people grow up into

    南方鄉村小鎮的人 如北卡州

  • in a rural town in a place in the south such as North Carolina.

    這點能讓我成長於非常不同的教育環境中

  • And I was exposed to a lot of different cultures, a lot of different interests,

    而且我沉浸於許多不同的文化和興趣中

  • a lot of things that you wouldn't find in a typical highschool, say, in the south.

    這些許多東西在南方的一般高中找不到

  • I was exposed to a large variety of people

    我與很多不同類型的人相處

  • and artistic and creative people, specifically,

    具體而言像是有藝術氣息和創造力的人

  • which I think imprinted on me, so to speak,

    可以說這些深深地影響了我

  • and I continue those trends today.

    一直到如今

  • Music and percussion are coupled straight into my identity.

    音樂和打擊樂已經融入了我的生命中

  • People say to me: "Well, you know, you work with this social organisation,

    有人對我說:"雖然你搞了這個社會組織

  • but yet, you're just a musician". You know, "just a musician".

    但終究你只是個搞音樂的" 你懂的 "僅是個搞音樂的"

  • There is the credentialism tendency that comes up a lot

    任何人當談論我們在這個運動中

  • with anyone that talks about the issues that we talk about in the movement

    所提到的問題 或已經被討論過的話題時

  • or that have been talked about in the films.

    往往會傾向於"文憑主義"

  • And, we can talk about that a little bit later as well.

    我們等一下也可以再談這些

  • But, what I'd like to say is that, I look at music now as a form of meditation.

    但我想說的是 我將音樂視為一種沉思的形式

  • It's something that's an outlet, it maintains my balance.

    有點像一種發洩方式 讓我保持平衡

  • So I continue to practice in a very personal sense,

    所以我繼續磨練自己的能力

  • it's not that I go out and perform that much anymore,

    不再那麼經常外出表演

  • I don't have time to anymore.

    我沒時間做那些

  • After my second year of college, I dropped out

    在我大二之後 我輟學了

  • realizing that the debt that I was accruing was absolutely not worth it.

    意識到我因此而積累的債務 絕對不值得再讀下去

  • Even then I knew there was something wrong with going to school,

    我知道那時去上學有地方不對勁

  • getting a ridiculous amount of debt, $80 to $100,000

    積累了八到十萬美元 這麼謬荒數量的債務

  • and then being thrown into the work force,

    接著被丟進職場

  • automatically in a position of indentured servitude, if you will.

    自動被契約奴役 如果你願意這麼稱呼的話

  • Automatically having to give yourself to the system because you're already in so much debt.

    自動加入這個系統 因為你已經欠了這麼多債務

  • My original interest was to be a solo classical marimbist,

    我原本的志向是古典馬林巴琴的獨奏家

  • a laughable concept when I think about it now,

    我現在想到這點會覺得可笑

  • but we all have our bouts of naivety as we grow.

    但我們在成長中 都會有幼稚發作的時刻

  • Once music became difficult for me to pursue as a career choice,

    一旦把追求音樂當成職業的選擇 變得困難時

  • I started to get into video and editing, and I got a job in New York,

    我就開始進入影視編輯的行業 在紐約找到了一份工作

  • many jobs in New York, doing various freelance video editing,

    在紐約做了大量工作 做了各種自由的影視編輯

  • shooting, whatever related to video work, film work.

    攝制任何和影視有關的工作 像電影

  • You have to do whatever pays you in this society,

    在這個社會中 你必須做那些付你錢的工作

  • and I couldn't really find the niche to make money in music so, I ended up in advertising.

    我真的找不到用音樂來賺錢的門道 所以最後進入廣告業

  • I always had a problem with people telling me what to do in the labor force,

    我總有些問題 有人總告訴我在職場中要做什麼

  • and I did not like advertising, obviously.

    顯然我不喜歡幹廣告這行

  • I did not like the nonsensical manipulation of peoples' perceptions so corporations can sell their crap.

    我不喜歡愚蠢地操縱人們的觀念 只為了讓公司賣垃圾

  • So I began to pursue work in the financial arena.

    所以我開始在金融界找工作

  • I began to do day trading, pattern training.

    我開始做日間貿易模擬訓練

  • I was moderately succesful. I never had a big capital base, which you really do have to have.

    我做的相當成功 但從未有大量的資本基礎 這點是你確實必須具備的

  • I pulled some change out of the market,

    我從市場裡提出一些零錢

  • and I continued to do it on and off for many, many years.

    並這樣持續做著經過許多年

  • I don't do it anymore because I despise the market system.

    我沒有再做了 因為我鄙視市場體系

  • The way I justified this was it was the only job I could come up with,

    能說服自己去做的理由 是因為這是我唯一想得到的工作

  • that didn't have a boss or a client, so it represented freedom to me.

    沒有老闆和客戶 讓我可以自由

  • Granted, trading the stock market has absolutely no social relevance,

    當然 在股市上交易絕沒有什麼社會意義

  • it contributes nothing to society.

    因為對社會毫無貢獻

  • You could blow up Wall Street tomorrow and it wouldn't make a damn difference to anything

    你可以明天炸掉華爾街 這對任何事都沒什麼影響

  • in regard to the natural order of affairs on this planet.

    在這個星球上 對於自然界的事物秩序也沒差

  • So at that stage in my life, I just wanted a way out.

    因此我在生命中的那個階段 只想找個出路

  • I wanted to not have to deal with being a slave to the corporate system anymore.

    我不想再做這個企業體系的奴隸了

  • So anyway, that's when I started first investigating economics,

    總之 這是我開始第一次研究經濟學的原因

  • and we can... I'm sure you have other questions about that, so I'll stop there.

    那麼我們可以... 我想你對此有其它問題 先在此打住

  • Zeitgeist began as a public performance,

    "時代精神"一開始是一個公眾表演

  • an attempt at a vaudevillian concept.

    是一次雜耍之類的概念嘗試

  • What I did was I set up two screens,

    我搭建了兩個屏幕

  • and I had a huge percussion setup in the middle where I performed,

    把一個大型的打擊樂器 架在我要表演的位置中間

  • with the videos that were on the two screens.

    影片則出現在那兩個屏幕上

  • Some of the equipment you see here was used.

    你可以在這裡看到一些使用過的設備

  • I've actually sold off most of my equipment.

    我實際上賣了大部分的設備

  • But regardless... I think I have some photographs I can give you.

    但無論怎樣... 我想有些照片可以給你看

  • There's only a few that actually were captured, believe it or not, at the original event.

    信不信由你 但在原本的活動中只照了非常少的照片

  • I wish I had documented the original event,

    我希望當時能記錄下原始的活動(但其實沒有)

  • because people keep asking me about it.

    因為有人不斷問我這些

  • But never the less, it started off as a creative work,

    但這一開始確實是一件創意作品

  • a variation on an early vaudevillian concept.

    蛻變於那次早期的隨意想法

  • Film and live music. Live performance.

    就像電影 現場音樂 即興表演

  • And once it was over, you know there was a...

    一旦結束後 就有了...

  • it was a free event. I did it for six nights, I believe.

    這是個隨便的活動 我想只用了六個晚上

  • And people came, I advertised it like crazy.

    接著有人來看 我像瘋了一樣去宣傳

  • I spent thousands and thousands of dollars.

    花了大把大把的錢

  • I did it mainly because I had been stuck in the corporate reality,

    我做這件事主要是因為 我被困於企業體系的現實中

  • and I just wanted to do something for myself to make myself feel better

    我只是想做一些事 讓我自己感覺好一點

  • about a world that's going to shit, essentially.

    因為這個世界基本上越來越爛

  • A world that's being dominated by finance, a world that's sick and distorted,

    這是一個被金融主宰的社會 一個病態扭曲的世界

  • through religious processes, financial oligarchs.

    被宗教儀式 金融寡頭操縱

  • It was just an expression, it was in fact a very angry, but solemn expression.

    這只是一種表達 雖然很憤怒 但事實上很莊重

  • I never expected it to turn out to be what it was, at all.

    我完全從沒想過結果會變成怎樣

  • After it was over, I just found myself in a little bit more debt.

    在這之後 我還發現因此背了點債

  • And I took the work which, by the way, I had no clearance for,

    順便說一下 我還沒去解決

  • I didn't clear any of the aspects with it.

    我還沒解決掉任何債務方面的問題

  • But, since the internet is what it is, tossed it up online to see what would happen.

    但由於有網路 我就把這些影片丟上去 看看會發生什麼事

  • Maybe some people would like it, they'd download it, I'd get some feedback.

    也許有人會喜歡並下載 我能得到一些回饋

  • Whatever.

    怎樣都好

  • What happened completely blew my mind.

    但結果完全出乎我意外之外

  • I posted it on one website, and from there, a chain reaction occured, and I...

    我放在一個網站上 在那裡發生了連鎖反應 然後我...

  • It's pretty much all history from that point on, I couldn't even tell you how it unfolded.

    從那時起都是些歷史了 我甚至不知道該怎麼對你說後續

  • All I know is that,

    反正我所知的是

  • I got wind of the fact that it was getting a tremendous amount of hits,

    我聽到風聲說有巨大的點擊量

  • and talked about a lot, so I built a website for it:

    還有許多的討論 因此我建了一個網站

  • www.zeitgeistmovie.com

    www.zeitgeistmovie.com

  • And I just had it up there for free.Then I realized that people wanted it on DVD.

    然後我又上傳以免費下載 並意識到人們會想要DVD版本

  • Like ok, I guess I should try to do that.

    我想說應該試著去做這些事

  • So I was forced into a very difficult position of getting clearance from all the participants involved,

    所以我被迫處於非常困窘的立場 就是滿足所有人的需要

  • which was very difficult, by the way because,

    這是非常困難的 因為這使人

  • everyone saw dollar-signs,

    看到了錢的問題

  • because it's an internet film that's getting millions of views.

    因為這是一部在網路上有數百萬點閱率的電影

  • So I had to pay out a lot of money to a set number of people to get it going.

    那麼我就需要花許多錢去找人維持下去

  • But there were also people that were just happy to see this information get out there,

    但也有人看到這方面的訊息出來就很高興

  • and didn't have any problems with me doing

    願意跟我一起做這些

  • what I call a "non-commercial distribution".

    被我稱為"非盈利傳遞"的事

  • A $5 DVD, for it to be released, in some capacity.

    如果有人願意買 五美元一張DVD

  • From there I got an email from an organization called the Artivist Film Festival.

    接著我收到一封Email 來自一個叫"藝術家電影節"的組織

  • And, to my amazement, they wanted to show the film in their festival,

    讓我吃驚的是 他們想在電影節上放我的電影

  • which was a packed audience, sold out audience.

    當時擠滿了觀眾 票被賣光

  • At this stage it was still utterly bewildering to me.

    在當時我仍然完全感到不解

  • This was the same organization of course that showed Zeitgeist: Addendum the next year.

    也是同樣的組織 在隔年播放了"時代精神:附錄"

  • "In a world where media is often used to keep us a little dumbed down

    "我的意見是比起其它任何事 世界上的媒體

  • more than anything else, as far as my opinion is concerned."

    通常都不斷讓我們變得更愚蠢"

  • (Applause)

    (掌聲)

  • I've often said, art without conscience is meaningless,

    我經常說 沒有良心的藝術沒有內涵

  • and I think action without conscience is futile.

    沒有良心的行動也是枉然

  • So, I think it's so great to have a festival that represents these types of ideas.

    所以我認為 有這種電影節能呈現這類想法是很棒的

  • As far as the film itself,

    對這部電影來說

  • I guess all I can really say is that the whole point of the film

    我真的想說這部電影的所有觀點

  • is for people to start looking at the very fundamental root causes

    是讓人們開始看到"根源"

  • of all of these problems that we see in society.

    關於我們所看到 全部社會問題的根源

  • So, that's a general run down of what happened.

    總之大概就是這樣的過程

  • The Zeitgeist Movement.

    時代精神運動

  • The Zeitgeist movement was a very difficult decision for me.

    時代精神運動對我來說 是個非常困難的決定

  • I could have just made Zeitgeist: Addendum like other socially conscious film makers do

    我本來可以完全像其它有社會意識的製片人那樣 去製作《時代精神:附錄》

  • in the sense that I could have just said: "Oh, well here's a bunch of stuff,

    那樣的話我可以只是說:"噢 這裡有堆東西

  • here's a bunch of problems. Hey, here are some possible solutions.

    這裡有堆問題 還有些可能的解決方案

  • Take what you will with it, and just roll with it and see what happens."

    挑你喜歡的隨意看一下發生了什麼"

  • I really was on the fence about putting at the very end;

    我當時真的不確定是否要在影片的最後

  • "Join the movement www.thezeitgeistmovement.com"

    放上這串字:"加入這個運動 www.thezeitgeistmovement.com"

  • And 6) Join the movement.

    6) 加入這個運動

  • Go to thezeitgeistmovement.com and help us create

    到thezeitgeistmovement.com 幫助我們創造

  • the largest mass movement for social change the world has ever seen.

    史上最大規模的群眾社會變革運動

  • I knew that the moment that it became something more than just a film phenomenon,

    我知道在那一刻 整件事就超過了只是一種影片熱潮

  • that my life would likely change dramatically, which it has.

    我的生活也確實出現了戲劇性的改變

  • Zeitgeist: Addendum was sparked out of people emailing me saying,

    "時代精神:附錄"的靈感 來自於人們問我的Email:

  • "Well, what do we do about all of these cultural problems?

    "嗯 我們對這些所有的文化問題該怎麼做?"

  • What do we do about a corrupt banking system?

    "我們對腐敗的銀行體系該怎麼做?"

  • What do we do about people that are locked into establishment social programs, if you will?"

    "對那些被困在社會既建體制中的人們 我們該怎麼做?"

  • I consider the trains of thought and mind to be a program.

    我認為人們的思考與想法像一種程式

  • I consider society itself to be a program that's running.

    我認為社會本身也是一種運行中的程式

  • And the programing locks people into a specific frame of reference.

    而這個程式將人們困鎖於特定的參照框架內

  • How do we deal with these issues?

    我們該怎麼解決這些議題?

  • How do we do, what do we do?

    我們該怎麼做 做什麼?

  • And Zeitgeist: Addendum was an attempt at answering that question.

    "時代精神:附錄"嘗試回答這個問題

  • After Zeitgeist 1 was released, it got into the hands of Jacque and Roxanne.

    在"時代精神1"播出後 雅克和羅克珊也看到了

  • And after reading Jacques book, which they sent me,

    在我讀過他們寄給我雅克寫的書後

  • I realized that this was really important information.

    我意識到這真是一個重要的訊息

  • I realized that, even I was backwards on a lot of issues that needed to be corrected.

    我意識到 甚至我本人對許多需要解決的問題 也所知不足

  • And in order to get society in line,

    為了達成社會和諧

  • we have to think about the fundamental problems.

    我們需要思考根本的問題

  • This was something that I was attempting to do in part, I had a notion of,

    這是我試圖做的部分 我有很多想法

  • but it wasn't until I met Jacque Fresco that the lense became focused.

    但直到我遇到雅克·法斯科 才讓所有重點都聚焦起來

  • It was like all these things that I sort of had an inkling of,

    就像所有的事情開始冒出一些端倪

  • Jacque's experience, life experience, what he had talked about for so long,

    雅克他長久以來一直在談論的生命經驗

  • just focused me in the right direction, as far as I'm concerned.

    對我而言馬上就引導我至明確的方向

  • So I made a whole section with him in Zeitgeist: Addendum,

    因此我在"時代精神:附錄"裡 為他空出整個章節

  • and that's how it took off.

    然後事情就這樣開展了

  • ATTACKS

    抨擊

  • Anyone that chooses to challenge establishment orthodoxy,

    如果任何人挑戰既建的"正統"觀念

  • traditional world views, not to mention the system that we live in,

    傳統的世界觀念 更別提我們生活於其中的體系

  • sets themself up for vehement attacks.

    那就會讓他們自己遭受惡毒的抨擊

  • I'm well aware of this.

    我很清楚這一點

  • If you look back at the history of anyone that has chosen to challenge the establishment,

    回頭看歷史 如果任何人選擇挑戰既建制度

  • it's a very dark history.

    那是一段非常黑暗的歷史

  • There are a great number of people out there that know that something is wrong.

    有很多人意識到這個社會出了問題

  • But, they do not understand the source of that wrongness,

    但他們看不到問題的根源在哪裡

  • because they are in the box of indoctrination.

    因為他們被禁錮在思想灌輸的牢籠

  • Socrates. Socrates never speculated on the slavery that was existing during his time.

    蘇格拉底從未思索過他當時的奴隸制度

  • That was normality to him.

    這對他很正常

  • This goes with every type of political philosopher that's ever existed,

    這點適用於每一位存在過的政治哲學家

  • whether it's Carl Marx, whether it's Plato.

    無論是卡爾·馬克思 還是柏拉圖

  • They're all locked into an established paradigm,

    他們都被困鎖在既建的模式之中

  • and their thought processes can only go so far.

    他們的思想 只能讓社會前進到一定範圍

  • And this includes, probably, myself.

    這很可能也包括我自己

  • People are locked into a box.

    人們都是被困在一個空間裡

  • They see the box around them,

    他們看見四周的空間

  • they see the leaks and the holes and the cracks and they go up to the cracks

    他們看到漏洞裂縫 然後去到那裡

  • and they try to fix them; they try to patch the holes.

    嘗試修理 補正

  • But they don't stop to think that maybe there's something wrong with the box, itself.

    但他們沒有停下來想 也許這個空間本身就出了問題

  • Maybe the integrity of the box that they exist in is inherently invalid, it's inherently void.

    也許整個空間根本就是無用的 根本就需要拋棄

  • The economic system that we live in is a parasitic paradigm,

    我們現在的經濟系統是一種寄生模式

  • that is only going to lead to self-destruction.

    只會導致社會的自我毀滅

  • But people don't see that.

    但人們看不到這一點

  • So if you attack the economic system for what it actually is, everyones' feathers go up.

    所以如果你去抨擊經濟體系的本質 所有人都會緊張起來

  • Everyone says: "Well, wait a minute. This is the world we all live.

    所有人都會說:"等等 這就是我們生活的世界

  • We live in a profit-based, labor-for-income world, cyclical consumption.

    我們就是活在一個利潤導向 工作拿錢 循環消費的世界

  • This is what we're used to.

    我們本來就是這樣的

  • We understand we have division of classes."

    我們明白我們有階段劃分"

  • You know, they throw in human nature,

    要知道 他們以人性為藉口

  • they throw in everything that will try to make it seem like it's apart of the natural order of reality

    他們試著讓任何事都看似 現實中自然秩序的一部分

  • when, in fact, it's not.

    但其實不是這樣

  • If I was to summarize the attacks that typically happen towards myself and the people I work with,

    如果我總結一下經常針對我自己 或周圍人士的抨擊

  • the first one would be credentialism.

    首先就是"文憑主義"

  • Credentialism is an annotation for the priesthood of those in the know.

    "文憑主義"可解釋為那些具有知識的人的資格

  • Now, bear in mind, this is a gradient of relevance.

    記住 這是一個相關聯的梯度

  • Obviously, I'm not going to go to a doctor, if I can help it,

    很明顯 如果我有選擇的話

  • that has absolutely no credentials in the surgery that I might need performed.

    我不會去找完全沒有資格的醫生對我進行手術

  • They require instruction and experience to do so.

    醫生需要手術的操作指南和經驗