and a life that you love. If you or anyone you know is struggling to figure out what

should I do with my life? In other words, what is your life’s work, my guest today

is here to help.

Chris Guillebeau is the author of the New York Times bestsellers The $100 Startup and

The Happiness of Pursuit and is the creator and host of the annual World Domination Summit,

a gathering of creative, awesome people. During a 10 year quest, Chris visited every country

in the world. He’s also a long time entrepreneur who believes in creating freedom while truly

giving back. His newest book is called Born for This: How to Find the Work You Were Meant

to Do.

Chris Guillebeau. It is so good to have you back on the show and finally in the studio,

because we’ve done this several times but it was always Skypetown USA.

Marie Forleo, thank you so much. It’s a huge honor. I always come back whenever I

have a book.

Yeah. And which I am so excited to talk about this book because when I saw the title and

saw what it was about I said, “Thank the Lord someone is talking about this,” because

so many folks that I get a chance to meet and to connect with online struggle with this

very topic of figuring out what they should do with their lives. So… so let’s dive

into it. What inspired you to really tackle this subject, because it’s a big one.

Well, I know this is something we’re both very passionate about because we both hear

from people all over the world that are trying to figure out their path and, like, what’s…

what’s best. And I wanna say since the last time I was on MarieTV, I went out and did

a big tour. I went to, like, 30 cities, and I met more people from MarieTV than any other

source. And I went around to different cities, I have been on national media, I’ve done

some really, really big shows, lots of newspaper coverage, and I heard from, like, you know,

5% of those people and, like, so many viewers from MarieTV. So I wanna say thank you for

that. Not to interrupt or sidetrack your question. I look forward to hearing from many more.

And as for what inspired it, you know, I feel very fortunate in that I feel like I have

found the work I’m born to do. I feel, you know, like I have the greatest job in the

world. I feel like I’ve won the career lottery. And I think if you talk to people who also

feel that way, they say things like, you know, I would do this for free. I love my work so

much. And I wanted to understand what that process was like and how it can be replicated.

And I think a lot of those people, we feel fortunate, as I said, but we’ve also made

different choices. And so we’ve come to different turning points in our lives, we’ve

had the opportunity to do one thing or another, and for whatever reason we’ve chosen this

path. And so how is that? And how do people make those choices, what do they do differently,

and how can everyone make those choices to find the work they were born to do?

Were you intimidated at all going at this subject? Because it’s a big one and there’s

so many different ways that you can tackle it.

It’s a big subject, but it’s really important. It’s really important and it’s really

fascinating and it’s fun. It’s fun to talk to people who have found the work they

were born to do, because they feel so alive. And you can see it in them, you can recognize

it in them. You know? You can sometimes even come across this in your own life if you…

if you, you know, meet someone that you knew a long time ago, maybe your friend from high

school or something, and you lost track of them. And then 15 years later you see them

on Facebook or somewhere and you realize, like, what they have gone on to do and you’re

like, “That’s exactly what they should’ve done. Like, that person became a lawyer and

I didn’t know they were gonna do that, but they were always really analytical, they were

good with asking questions and solving problems. Or they became a teacher, of course they’re

a teacher. You know, that makes perfect sense. They were always so caring, they were always

so instructive. You know, they were good at helping people.” So I don’t think I was

intimidated, I was inspired. I was excited about it.

That’s awesome. You know, one philosophy in the book that you and I share, and it’s

something I talk about as often as possible, is this idea that everyone should think like

an entrepreneur, whether or not you wanna run your own business or you wanna start anything.

It’s just that mindset that is so essential these days, and I was wondering if you could

speak to that.

Yes. Everyone should think like an entrepreneur, whether they want to be an entrepreneur or

not. There are lots of great careers in which you have to work with an organization or a

company, and that’s great. My mom worked for NASA for more than 30 years. You can’t

be an astronaut or support a space shuttle launch as an entrepreneur. That was something

that she wanted to be part of a greater team. I interviewed… one of the stories in the

book is the first female firefighter from Mississauga, Ontario. And 21 years ago there

were no female firefighters there and she set up… she set out on this journey to kind

of crack the system and figure out, ok, how can I, like, I really want to be a firefighter

but it’s really hard and I have to pass all these tests. And, you know, she was also

very small, she weighed like 102 pounds, but she made it work. Right? And so I think even

in a traditional job, you have to look out for yourself. You’re always self employed

even if you’re employed I think, you know. Like, you’re ultimately responsible for

your own career and if you want to not only be stable and create security but also to

create the best possible work and solution for yourself, you have to think entrepreneurially.

So from your research and from your own experience, do you feel that each of us was born for a

specific job or a specific calling? Or have you discovered that perhaps there’s multiple

options for each of us?

I think there’s a… I think it’s a little bit of both because one thing I really wanna

say is, you know, I think a lot of people when I talk to people about this book, they

were worried about mistakes they had made. And they were worried about, like, you know,

I had this opportunity and I let it go. Or I should’ve done this and I ended up doing

something different. I really learned that you can recover from most mistakes. Like,

most of us have made mistakes, we’ve done different things and that’s… that’s

normal. So there are a lot of different paths. I don’t think there’s just necessarily

one path, you know, for everyone. You know, there’s this whole, like, poem about, you

know, the road not taken or the road less travelled and I took this one, it made all

the difference. But we don’t really know the other story. Right? We don’t know what

happened, like, what if you’d actually gone back and taken the other one? Maybe it would’ve

been great too. Maybe it would’ve been better. So I do think there’s more than one path,

but I also think when you talk to people who have found the work they were born to do,

they’re so excited about it you can tell that they have found something that is really

unique and really special. So even though there’s more than one path, I think it’s

important to kind of work toward whatever this special thing is. Work toward this…

this combination of factors to where, like, we’re really happy and we have all the money

that we need and we’re doing something that we’re really good at. I think… I think

that’s the goal, right? So it’s not like this one elusive thing, but if you look at

really successful people, if you look at Beyonce, like, Beyonce probably could’ve done a bunch

of different things but isn’t it so good that she’s doing, you know, what she’s

doing? Or anyone that you admire. You kind of look at them and you’re like they…

they’ve really found their thing.

Which speaks to, actually, another really great frame in the book, which is the joy

money flow concept, and you can kind of use that to start to decipher if there’s a few

things that you’re considering doing, which is something that a lot of our audience runs

up against. Like, what should I pick? I have so many things that I wanna do. Can you speak

a little bit to… to what that concept is, joy money flow?

Absolutely. So in the book there’s a lot of different exercises to help people kind

of see, ok, I’ve got all of these different options. What should I do next? What should

I be working towards? And what we found is that everybody who is successful, and by successful

I mean, like, absolutely fulfilled in their career, you know, passionate about it and

feeling like they’re doing something that they’re supposed to do, they have these

3 characteristics. And first of all they have joy, they’re happy in their work, they enjoy

what they do most of the time. They’re not doing a soul sucking job. If they have a job,

it’s a great job. Or if it’s something that they’ve built for themselves, they

really enjoy it. And the second quality is money, because there’s lots of things that

you can do that you enjoy but if you don’t get paid for them, then it’s a hobby. Which

is great, like, it’s good to have a hobby but if you’re talking about a career it

has to be financially sustainable. So joy, money, and then the third factor is flow,

which is really doing something that you’re good at, really doing something where when

you do it you’re immersed in it and the hours just kind of pass by. And it’s also

really easy for you. It’s something that you’re good at and other people are like,

“Wow, like, you know, she’s really good at that. Takes me a lot longer to do it or

I’m not good at it.” But so I think what we’re looking for is this combination of

all 3 factors. We want something that brings joy, we want something that is financially

sustainable, we want something that brings flow. And I don’t think people will be happy

unless they have all 3 of these factors.

Yeah.

I think you can be a little bit… you can be ok. Right? There’s lots of people who

do jobs they don’t love. And that’s fine, they get a paycheck and maybe they’re satisfied

in other areas of their life. But because life is short, why not try to work towards

something, you know, that is not just, you know, ok but is amazing. Right? Isn’t that

the goal?

Absolutely. And I think one of the genius things about this concept is that it applies

even if you are in what you consider the work that you’re going to do. And, you know,

for me, when I thought about this concept of joy and money and flow, you can apply that

to revenue streams. You know, whether or not you really want to take this thing on or this

project on or this client on. Is it gonna be financially viable to the degree that you

want and is it really just something that’s deserving of your time and is aligned with

your strengths? So I think it’s a great litmus test…

Absolutely.

…if you’re still searching, but then if you’ve found it it can also take care of

whether or not you should move ahead with a particular project or client.

Totally agree.

So let’s talk about expanding your options and then eliminating them, which I think is

so great for those of us who, you know, I’ve coined this term multipassionate entrepreneur.

When I was first getting started I was so confused because I couldn’t pick one thing

to do. I loved so many things from coaching and hip hop and dance and writing and marketing

and spirituality, and I felt schizophrenic.

Interesting.

So talk to me about expanding your options and then eliminating them, what you found

in the book.

So I think maybe if we go back to somebody who’s in that beginning part of their career,

I think the wrong advice to them would be say just pick one of those things. And that’s

what everybody says all the time. They’re always like, “Oh, you have… you have to

focus, you have to just pick your niche or your niche. You’ve gotta do that.” And

how are you really gonna find that combination of factors, of joy, money, and flow, without

expanding your options, without trying a lot of different stuff? So you did that.

Yeah.

You did that in your career. I did that. And I think in the… in the beginning part of

really trying to figure out what am I good at and also not just what am I good at, but

what is going to be rewarded, you know, in the marketplace? You know, I said yes to a

lot of different things. And so I always encourage people when you’re starting out, expand

your options. Do everything that you can to have a lot of different experiences and then

as you become more successful, as you have more experience, then you limit the options.

Then you start being more selective. Then you start being like, ok, I am gonna apply

that litmus test more often. I am gonna say, ok, you know, I’ve got all these different

things I could do. What is most aligned? What… where can I have the most convergence, you

know, what am I really like getting close to? How am I gonna have the biggest impact

in the world? But I don’t think you can necessarily do that when you’re just getting

started, because you don’t know.

You can’t. And that’s the thing I always try and stress to people is to give yourself

permission to do a lot of different things without trying to force that focus too fast.

Because for some of us, certainly me, not in my DNA to focus right out of the gate.

I did not have a clear answer and I remember somewhat envying people. You know, Josh, my

fiancé, he knew he wanted to be an actor from, like, the moment he popped out of the

womb. But, you know, I think between 60 and I’d say 80 to 90 percent of us don’t have

that.

Right.

So this advice is just so good and I love you suggest for us to eliminate ideas that

don’t bring you joy when you think of them.

Right.

That’s a really smart thing.

Yeah. So you can have this inferiority complex because you can look and see, like, successful

people and you’re like, “Oh, they must have known, like, all along.” And most of

them didn’t.

Yes.

You know, most of them actually went through this nonlinear path, most of them went through

this whole path of discovery and path of trying things that didn’t work out, which is totally

fine and totally normal. And they were able to successfully say goodbye to those things

and embrace something else. You know, I don’t know what you wanted to be when you grew up,

when you were 6 years old or 8 years old.

5 or 6 things. My books had all different, like, from teacher to speaker to actor to

dancer, I… all the stuff.

Ok. That’s actually still not too far from what you’re doing now. When I was a kid,

when I was 6, I wanted to work at Burger King. Because I thought Burger King was the best

restaurant when I was 6 years old.

Naturally, yeah.

Right? And so I think of that a lot now because fortunately I grew out of that. But, you know,