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  • Huckabee: We got nothing

  • Cruz: Death to America

  • Clinton: The agreement

  • Graham: The weapon

  • Trump: This is amateur night.

  • Netanyahu: This is a bad mistake.

  • Obama: This is the strongest nonproliferation agreement ever negotiated

  • Jake: There’s a lot of noise about the Iran deal,

  • but is it as important as President Obama says it is?

  • [ music ]

  • Mr. President, in your speech at American University yesterday,

  • you called this the most important foreign policy debate that weve witnessed since the Iraq War.

  • I think if you talk to most Americans, and particularly our generation,

  • they don’t necessarily feel that. I wonder why you think that is?

  • Obama: Well, I lived through the debate of the Iraq War. I wasn’t yet

  • in the United States Senate. I was a state senator in Illinois.

  • Archival Obama: I don’t oppose war in all circumstances. What I do oppose is a dumb war.

  • Obama: At the time,

  • there was a drumbeat that going into Iraq was the right thing to do.

  • George W. Bush: We will answer every danger and every enemy that threatens the American people

  • Obama: A lot of people didn’t get engaged in that debate then either.

  • It was only after the decision was made.

  • It was only after the initial push into Baghdad descended into massive chaos that suddenly the country realized

  • That we had made a big, strategic mistake.

  • And my point is that now is the time to have the debate, not after decisions are made.

  • Jake Horowitz: Here’s what the deal is all about. Iran has to do three things:

  • Reduce and limit its stockpile of enriched uranium, which is a key ingredient in making a nuclear weapon

  • Significantly cut its number of centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium

  • And allow strict inspections to make sure theyre following these rules.

  • In exchange, the US and other world powers will lift sanctions that have crippled Iran’s economy.

  • Iran and the 6 countries involved in the negotiations have agreed to the deal, but Obama still needs to get it through Congress.

  • He believes this is the only peaceful way forward.

  • Barack Obama: The alternative to a negotiated agreement of the sort that we put together is

  • At some point, us having to potentially take a military strike against Iran.

  • Jake Horowitz: Republicans and even some Democrats disagree:

  • Ted Cruz: I think this Iranian nuclear deal is a catastrophic mistake

  • Scott Walker: Iran is not a place we should be doing business with

  • Carly Fiorina: This is a bad deal, Obama broke every rule of negotiation

  • Donald Trump: I wouldve doubled and tripled up the sanctions and I wouldve made a much better deal

  • Bob Menendez: We didn’t end Iran’s nuclear program, we actually preserved it

  • Mike Huckabee: He trusts our enemies and vilifies everyone who disagrees with him

  • Jake Horowitz: And it’s not just politicians who have concerns.

  • We asked people around the world what questions they have for the President.

  • Then... we showed him.

  • Barack Obama: Okay. So I can just press my button.

  • Jake Horowitz: Press the uhh..

  • Barack Obama: Which? Which should I press?...

  • Jake Horowitz: The video on the left.

  • Barack Obama: The video on the left. This one right here?

  • Jake Horowitz: Yeah, that’s it.

  • Barack Obama: Here we go. Okay.

  • Ghazal Hakami: Mr. President, you always speak of peace and you made it. But we, the Iranian people, paid a high price because you put very harsh sanctions on us.

  • Don’t you think you had other ways to make this deal without hurting Iranian people so much?

  • Barack Obama: Well, unfortunately we didn’t have a better way of doing this.

  • What we had to do was to more severely enforce sanctions so that Iran had greater incentive to come to the table and negotiate.

  • Jake Horowitz: In 2009, Obama sent a letter to the supreme leader of Iran to start negotiations over its nuclear program.

  • But they never replied. Instead, they ramped up their nuclear efforts.

  • So, starting in 2010, the US and other world powers enacted several rounds of new sanctions that cut Iran off from much of the global financial system.

  • As part of this new deal, the sanctions will be lifted if they follow the rules.

  • Barack Obama: Our hope is that the Iranian people are going to be benefiting from that.

  • But until that happens, this was the only way for us to be able to get the Iranian government to take seriously the concerns of the international community.

  • Jake Horowitz: 60% of Iran’s population is under 30, so young Iranians have grown up knowing only tension with the US and increasingly severe sanctions.

  • Jake Horowitz: Today’s 20-somethings will be 40-somethings as this deal runs its course and will be in positions of power.

  • What’s possible in the future of U.S.-Iran relations?

  • Barack Obama: I’ve said many times that Iran is an extraordinarily gifted country. It is an ancient culture.

  • It has incredibly smart and talented people. And I wish those people well.

  • There’s going to have to be a transition inside of Iran, even if gradual, in which there’s a recognition that chantingdeath to Americaor denying the Holocaust among its leaders

  • Or threatening Israel with destruction or, you know, providing arms to Hezbollah, which is on the terrorist list

  • That those things make Iran a pariah in the eyes of a large part of the world.

  • And I can guarantee you that the moment the Iranian regime stopped engaging in that kind of rhetoric and that kind of behavior

  • That Iran would just by virtue of its size, talent, resources, immediately rise in its influence and its power in the eyes of the world.

  • And that’s what I hope can happen.

  • It will require a shift in the politics and the leadership of Iran

  • A different mindset in terms of how they are approaching the rest of the world and how theyre approaching countries like the United States.

  • And perhaps, itll be this new generation that’s able to make that happen.

  • Jake Horowitz: It won’t be easywhen young Iranians took to the streets to protest a disputed election in 2009, the uprising was crushed by the government.

  • The demonstrations were the largest protests against the government since the revolution in 1979 — and showed just how hard change will be.

  • Neela Pack: I’d like to know if you believe that this deal can lead to a shift in the internal politics in Iran and bring about positive reforms there.

  • And if so, is this deal going to be at the cost of our relationships with current allies in the Middle East.

  • Barack Obama: This deal is a good deal regardless of whether the character of the current Iranian regime changes.

  • As long as they are sticking with the deal, were solving a big problem, which is Iran not having a nuclear weapon and not triggering a nuclear arms race in the Middle East.

  • Jake Horowitz: Lifting sanctions in Iran will provide an influx of cash to the current regime

  • Which countries like Israel and Saudi Arabia fear will flow to terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas and increase Iran’s regional influence.

  • Barack Obama: There is great suspicion of this deal among some of our closest allies, Israel in particular, but also some of the Gulf States

  • Who have seen Iran’s actionstrying to destabilize their governments or sponsoring terrorist proxies.

  • And what I’m convinced of is that this deal is a good deal even as we work with those allies to constrain Iranian actions in some of these other areas.

  • But what I can also say for certain is that if Iran started behaving differently

  • If it wasn’t sponsoring terrorist organizations like Hezbollah, if it wasn’t destabilizing its neighbors, that would be welcomed by those neighbors.

  • And you could see a greater understanding and peace in the region.

  • Jake Horowitz: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is the fiercest critic of the deal, which he believes paves the way for Iran to get the bomb.

  • Benjamin Netanyahu: What a stunning, historic mistake.

  • Sam Grossberg: As an Israeli citizen, it’s very obvious that you oppose our prime minister.

  • Youve made a lot of promises in regards to our security as a people and as you know Hamas is right now basically at our doorstep.

  • Why should we, as the Israeli people, trust you?

  • Barack Obama: Well, as president, I have not only pledged and committed to make sure that America supports Israel’s security.

  • But I’ve also provided more intelligence and military cooperation with Israel than any previous president.

  • I think it’s important for Sam to understand, I don’t oppose the Israeli prime minister across the board.

  • We have a strong disagreement about whether or not it makes sense for us to take a deal that cuts off all pathways for Iran getting a nuclear program

  • Or whether we should reject a deal, in which case, Iran can break out and start installing advanced centrifuges and potentially pursue a nuclear weapon

  • Without us having eyes on what’s going on on the ground or any significant constraints until it's too late.

  • And that is a substantive disagreement that we have but -- on a whole range of issues -- particularly with respect to Israel’s security, weve been with Israel every step of the way.

  • And even Prime Minister Netanyahu’s government would acknowledge that.

  • Jake Horowitz: Let’s take it back home.

  • In your speech yesterday, you seem to compare Republicans who are against this deal to some of the hardliners in Iran, who are chantingdeath to Americain the streets.

  • Barack Obama: It’s those hardliners chantingDeath to Americawhove been most opposed to the deal.

  • Theyre making common cause with the Republican caucus.

  • Jake Horowitz: There’s also Democrats you know who are on the fence about this deal. And what would you say to them?

  • Barack Obama: Well, I’m talking to them all the time.

  • And first of all, remember what I said was, that, it’s the hardliners in Iran who are most opposed to this deal.

  • And I said in that sense, theyre making common cause with those who were opposed to this deal here. I didn’t say that they were equivalent.

  • There are going to be some Democrats who end up opposing this deal, partly because as I said yesterday in the speech,

  • the affinity that we all feel towards the state of Israel is profound, it’s deep.

  • And you know when Israel is opposed to something a lot of Democrats, as well as Republicans, pay attention.

  • The difference though, is that most of the Democratic senators have taken the time to actually read the bill and listen to the arguments.

  • A sizeable proportion of the Republicans were opposed before the ink was even dry on the deal before it was even posted

  • And that gives you some sense of the degree to which this is driven by partisan politics or ideology as opposed to analysis.

  • Jake Horowitz: And is there any criticism of the deal that you do think is legitimate?

  • Barack Obama: Oh, absoluwell, what I have said is that there are concerns that are legitimate.

  • It is absolutely true that Iran has a history of trying to play it close to the line when it comes to its nuclear program. And so we do have to be very vigilant about inspections.

  • Jake Horowitz: One of the major points of contention is the fact that the restrictions on enriching uranium expire after 15 years.

  • Bob Menendez: In time, they will have the option if they choose to ultimately move towards a nuclear weapon.

  • And our choices then will even be more limited than they are today.

  • Barack Obama: At that point they could conceivably break out and try to get a nuclear weapon.

  • The point there, that I’ve made, that I think is indisputable, and in fact, former Israeli intelligence officers have made the same point

  • Is that well have just as much if not more ability to stop them at that point than they would if they are doing it right now

  • And in the meantime we would have purchased 15 years in which we know exactly what theyre doing and can have a lot more assurance about understanding their program.

  • The point is, on all these, on any international agreement, there is always some give and take. You never get 100% of what you want.

  • And the world is a big, complicated and sometimes dangerous place

  • So you have to apply judgments to what is the most important thing and how do you best achieve it, given the realities of the situation.

  • Jake Horowitz: So here’s what comes next:

  • In September, Congress will vote on the deal

  • Most experts believe it will survive, but no matter what, it’s sure to remain a huge issue on the campaign trail.

  • To the Republican presidential hopefuls, Obama has one challenge:

  • Barack Obama: Provide a detailed, plausible alternative.

  • And I’ve been listening to them for a long time.

  • I’m doubtful that they will.

Huckabee: We got nothing

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麥克風採訪。奧巴馬總統為伊朗核協議辯護 (The Mic Interview: President Obama Defends the Iran Nuclear Deal)

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    joanna 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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