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  • "I felt a Funeral, in my Brain,

    「在我的腦海中,有一場葬禮,

  • And Mourners to and fro

    哀悼者來來去去,

  • Kept treading - treading - till it seemed

    不停踩踏,踩踏,直到我感覺

  • That Sense was breaking through -

    感官衝破了覺知。

  • And when they all were seated,

    當眾人全都就座,

  • A Service, like a Drum -

    儀式開始,像擊鼓般,

  • Kept beating - beating - till I felt

    不斷敲擊、敲擊,直到感覺

  • My mind was going numb -

    我的意識就此麻木。

  • And then I heard them lift a Box

    此刻我聽見他們抬起棺木,

  • And creak across my Soul

    嘰嘎聲穿透我的魂。

  • With those same Boots of Lead, again,

    鉛靴的踏步聲再度揚起,

  • Then Space - began to toll,

    伴隨喪鐘迴盪,

  • As all the Heavens were a Bell, And Being, but an Ear,

    彷彿天空是具大鐘,只剩下一只耳朵存在,

  • And I, and Silence, some strange Race,

    而我與寂靜間,一場微妙的追逐,

  • Wrecked, solitary, here -

    獨自在此破碎。

  • (Just) then a Plank in Reason, broke,

    就在此時,理性忽然斷了弦,

  • And I dropped down, and down -

    我不斷墜落,

  • And hit a World, at every plunge,

    每次墜落都撞上一個世界,

  • And Finished knowing - then -"

    最終豁然開朗。 」

  • We know depression through metaphors.

    我們透過文學隱喻認識了憂鬱。

  • Emily Dickinson was able to convey it in language,

    艾蜜莉.狄更生(十九世紀美國詩人) 用詩歌描寫它,

  • Goya in an image.

    哥雅(西班牙畫家)用繪畫詮釋,

  • Half the purpose of art is to describe such iconic states.

    半數藝術品的目的是為了描述這象徵性的狀態。

  • As for me, I had always thought myself tough,

    對我而言,我總把自己看做一名鬥士,

  • one of the people who could survive if I'd been sent to a concentration camp.

    是那種即使被送往集中營也可以存活下來的人。

  • In 1991, I had a series of losses.

    1991 年,我經歷了一連串的不幸。

  • My mother died, a relationship I'd been in ended,

    我的母親去世,戀情終結,

  • I moved back to the United States from some years abroad,

    多年居住外國之後,我返回了美國。

  • and I got through all of those experiences intact.

    我安然無恙地經歷這一切。

  • But in 1994, three years later, I found myself losing interest in almost everything.

    但是到了 1994 年,三年之後,我發現自己對所有的事情都失去了興趣。

  • I didn't want to do any of the things I had previously wanted to do, and I didn't know why.

    任何我曾經喜歡做的事情,我都不願意做,對此我毫無頭緒。

  • The opposite of depression is not happiness, but vitality.

    憂鬱的反面不是快樂,而是活力。

  • And it was vitality that seemed to seep away from me in that moment.

    正是這種活力,在那時似乎從我體內一點一點地消失。

  • Everything there was to do seemed like too much work.

    任何需要做的事情都變得困難無比。

  • I would come home,

    我回到家裡,

  • and I would see the red light flashing on my answering machine,

    看到答錄機上閃爍跳躍的紅燈,

  • and instead of being thrilled to hear from my friends,

    我非但不會因為有朋友的音訊而感到興奮。

  • I would think, "What a lot of people that is to have to call back."

    我會想著:「怎麼有這麼多人需要我回覆電話!」

  • Or I would decide I should have lunch,

    又比如,我知道自己該吃午餐了。

  • and then I would think, but I'd have to get the food out

    我就會想,我需要把食物取出來,

  • and put it on a plate and cut it up and chew it and swallow it,

    放在盤子上,切開它們,嚼碎它們再嚥下去。

  • and it felt to me like the Stations of the Cross.

    這對我就像耶穌受難一樣難熬。

  • And one of the things that often gets lost in discussions of depression

    有關憂鬱的討論中,有一點經常讓人困惑,

  • is that you know it's ridiculous.

    那就是你明白這一切都很荒謬。

  • You know it's ridiculous while you're experiencing it.

    當你經歷這一切的時候, 你知道這很荒謬。

  • You know that most people manage to listen to their messages and eat lunch

    你知道大多數人能夠聽他們的電話留言、吃午飯、

  • and organize themselves to take a shower and go out the front door,

    打點好自己、沖個澡,然後走出大門。

  • and that it's not a big deal, and yet you are nonetheless in its grip,

    這些事無關緊要,但你卻依然深陷其中,

  • and you are unable to figure out any way around it.

    你無法找到逃離的方式。

  • And so I began to feel myself doing less and thinking less and feeling less.

    於是我發現自己做的事越來越少,思考愈來愈少,感覺越來越少。

  • It was a kind of nullity, and then the anxiety set in.

    處在一種虛無狀態中。這時焦慮出現了。

  • If you told me that I'd have to be depressed for the next month,

    如果你告訴我,我會在下個月一直憂鬱,

  • I would say, "As long I know it'll be over in November, I can do it."

    我會說:「只要我知道, 憂鬱會在 11 月消失,我就能挺過去。」

  • But if you said to me, "You have to have acute anxiety for the next month,"

    然而如果你這樣說:「你會在下個月嚴重焦慮。」

  • I would rather slit my wrist than go through it.

    我寧願割腕也不願意承受。

  • It was the feeling all the time, like that feeling you have if you're walking,

    這是一種持續的感受,就好像你走在路上,

  • and you slip or trip, and the ground is rushing up at you,

    你跌倒了或者絆倒了,地面猛然衝向你。

  • but instead of lasting half a second, the way that does, it lasted for six months.

    但是這感覺不是只有半秒,這感覺要持續六個月。

  • It's a sensation of being afraid all the time, but not even knowing what it is that you're afraid of.

    這是一種無時無刻感到害怕,卻不知道你在害怕什麼的感覺。

  • And it was at that point that I began to think that it was just too painful to be alive,

    那一刻我開始想,活著太痛苦了。人不會自殺的唯一理由,

  • and that the only reason not to kill oneself was so as not to hurt other people.

    就是不想傷害旁人。

  • And finally one day, I woke up, and I thought perhaps I'd had a stroke,

    終於有一天,我醒來,我想我可能中風了。

  • because I lay in bed completely frozen, looking at the telephone, thinking,

    因為我躺在床上,渾身僵硬。我看著電話,心想:

  • "Something is wrong and I should call for help,"

    「出事了,我應該打電話求救。」

  • and I couldn't reach out my arm and pick up the phone and dial.

    我卻無法伸出胳膊,無法拿起電話撥號,

  • And finally, after four full hours of my lying and staring at it,

    終於,在我躺著盯著電話 整整四個小時之後,

  • the phone rang, and somehow I managed to pick it up,

    電話響了,不知怎麼我拿起了聽筒,

  • and it was my father, and I said,

    是我父親來電,我說:

  • "I'm in serious trouble. We need to do something."

    「我麻煩大了,我們必須做點什麼。 」

  • The next day I started with the medications and the therapy.

    第二天我開始接受藥物治療和心理治療。

  • And I also started reckoning with this terrible question:

    並且我開始思索這個可怕的問題:

  • If I'm not the tough person who could have made it through a concentration camp, then who am I?

    如果我不是個堅強的人,不是那種可以在集中營裡存活的人,那麼我是誰?

  • And if I have to take medication, is that medication making me more fully myself,

    如果我必須服用藥物,那麼藥物是讓我變得更像我自己,

  • or is it making me someone else?

    還是讓我變成了別人?

  • And how do I feel about it if it's making me someone else?

    如果藥物讓我變成了別人我有有什麼感覺呢?

  • I had two advantages as I went into the fight.

    在這場戰鬥中我有兩個優勢:

  • The first is that I knew that, objectively speaking, I had a nice life,

    第一,我很清楚,客觀地說,我有很好的生活。

  • and that if I could only get well,

    一旦我好起來,

  • there was something at the other end that was worth living for.

    還會有一些東西值得我去追求。

  • And the other was that I had access to good treatment.

    另外一點是我能接受很好的治療。

  • But I nonetheless emerged and relapsed, and emerged and relapsed,

    然而我卻反覆發作,好轉又發作,又一次好轉,

  • and emerged and relapsed, and finally understood

    再發作,終於我明白,

  • I would have to be on medication and in therapy forever.

    自己必須一輩子服藥和治療。

  • And I thought, "But is it a chemical problem or a psychological problem?

    於是我想:「但是這到底是化學問題還是心理問題?

  • And does it need a chemical cure or a philosophical cure?"

    是需要化學療法還是哲學療法?」

  • And I couldn't figure out which it was.

    我想不出是哪一種。

  • And then I understood that actually,

    接著我懂了,

  • we aren't advanced enough in either area for it to explain things fully.

    事實上,我們對這兩個領域的了解都不足以完全解釋真相。

  • The chemical cure and the psychological cure both have a role to play,

    化學療法和心理療法都有各自的作用,

  • and I also figured out that depression was something that was braided so deep into us

    同時我明白了憂鬱是一種深深根植於我們體內的東西,

  • that there was no separating it from our character and personality.

    我們無法從性格和個性中將憂鬱剝離開來。

  • I want to say that the treatments we have for depression are appalling.

    我想說我們對憂鬱的治療方法太過恐怖。

  • They're not very effective. They're extremely costly.

    這些方法不太有效,而且代價高昂,

  • They come with innumerable side effects. They're a disaster.

    還帶來無數副作用,簡直就是場災難。

  • But I am so grateful that I live now and not 50 years ago,

    不過我很慶幸自己活在現代,而不是 50 年前,

  • when there would have been almost nothing to be done.

    那時候幾乎沒有任何治療的辦法。

  • I hope that 50 years hence, people will hear about my treatments

    我想 50 年以後,人們聽說我的治療方法,

  • and be appalled that anyone endured such primitive science.

    會驚訝於居然有人能忍受如此原始粗糙的科學。

  • Depression is the flaw in love.

    憂鬱是愛的缺陷。

  • If you were married to someone and thought, "Well, if my wife dies, I'll find another one,"

    如果你將要和另一半結婚,然後想:「好吧,如果我妻子死了,我會再找一個。」

  • it wouldn't be love as we know it.

    這不是我們熟知的愛情。

  • There's no such thing as love without the anticipation of loss,

    沒有這樣一種愛情,只有獲取幸福卻不用體驗失去,

  • and that specter of despair can be the engine of intimacy.

    這種絕望的幽靈,會是親密關係的動力。

  • There are three things people tend to confuse: depression, grief and sadness.

    人們容易混淆三件事:憂鬱,悲傷和難過。

  • Grief is explicitly reactive.

    悲傷是明確的反應。

  • If you have a loss and you feel incredibly unhappy, and then, six months later,

    如果你因為損失而感到非常不開心,那麼六個月之後,

  • you are still deeply sad, but you're functioning a little better, it's probably grief,

    你仍然很難過,但日常作息好轉了一些,這大概就是悲傷。

  • and it will probably ultimately resolve itself in some measure.

    它可能最終在一定程度上能自行修復。

  • If you experience a catastrophic loss, and you feel terrible,

    如果你經歷了一次災難性的打擊,你感覺非常糟糕,

  • and six months later you can barely function at all,

    六個月之後依然無法正常生活,

  • then it's probably a depression that was triggered

    那麼可能就是一種憂鬱被

  • by the catastrophic circumstances.

    災難性的情形所觸發了。

  • The trajectory tells us a great deal.

    這個分析軌跡告訴我們很多訊息。

  • People think of depression as being just sadness.

    人們認為憂鬱只是難過。

  • It's much, much too much sadness,

    只是太多太多的難過,

  • much too much grief at far too slight a cause.

    太多太多的悲傷,因為微不足道的事情而起。

  • As I set out to understand depression, and to interview people who had experienced it,

    當我開始了解憂鬱,採訪了經歷過憂鬱的人們,

  • I found that there were people who seemed, on the surface,

    我發現有些人表面上看起來

  • to have what sounded like relatively mild depression

    似乎有輕微的憂鬱,

  • who were nonetheless utterly disabled by it.

    他們卻因此完全喪失了行為能力。

  • And there were other people who had what sounded

    另外一些人,

  • as they described it like terribly severe depression, who nonetheless had good lives

    a根據他們的描述,有非常嚴重的憂鬱,

  • in the interstices between their depressive episodes.

    卻能在憂鬱的間隙過著不錯的生活。

  • And I set out to find out what it is that causes some people to be more resilient than other people.

    我開始著手研究,為什麼有些人比另一些人有更好的復元能力。

  • What are the mechanisms that allow people to survive?

    是什麼機制讓人得以倖存?

  • And I went out and I interviewed person after person who was suffering with depression.

    我出去採訪了一個又一個因憂鬱而受苦的人。

  • One of the first people I interviewed described depression as a slower way of being dead,

    我最早採訪的某個人將憂鬱描述為一種緩慢的死亡方式。

  • and that was a good thing for me to hear early on

    最初就聽到這說法對我來說是好事,

  • because it reminded me that that slow way of being dead

    因為它提醒了我緩慢的死亡

  • can lead to actual deadness, that this is a serious business.

    可以通往真正的死亡,這可是正經話。

  • It's the leading disability worldwide, and people die of it every day.

    憂鬱是世界上名列前茅的身心障礙,每天都有人因此喪生。

  • One of the people I talked to when I was trying to understand this,

    當我試著了解這些的時候,我的一位採訪對象,

  • was a beloved friend who I had known for many years,

    也是我的摯友,我與她相識多年。

  • and who had had a psychotic episode in her freshman year of college,

    在她大一的時候,有過一次精神病發作,

  • and then plummeted into a horrific depression.

    之後她陷入了可怕的憂鬱。

  • She had bipolar illness, or manic depression, as it was then known.

    她患有雙相障礙,當時也稱為躁鬱症。

  • And then she did very well for many years on lithium,

    經過多年的鋰治療,她恢復得不錯,

  • and then eventually, she was taken off her lithium

    於是到最後,她停止了化學治療,

  • to see how she would do without it, and she had another psychosis,

    看看自己不治療能撐多久。然而她的精神病復發,

  • and then plunged into the worst depression that I had ever seen,

    a接著陷入了我所見過最嚴重的憂鬱。

  • in which she sat in her parents' apartment,

    a她坐在父母的公寓裡,

  • more or less catatonic, essentially without moving, day after day after day.

    基本上就像植物人一樣,

  • And when I interviewed her about that experience some years later,

    幾乎一動也不動,就這樣過了一天又一天。

  • she's a poet and psychotherapist named Maggie Robbins, when I interviewed her, she said,

    多年後我採訪她,談起了這段經歷──她叫瑪姬.羅賓 (Maggie Robbins) , 是一位詩人和精神治療師──當我採訪她時,她說:

  • "I was singing 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone,' over and over, to occupy my mind.

    「 當時我一遍一遍地唱著 《花兒都去哪兒了》,滿腦子都是這首歌。

  • I was singing to blot out the things my mind was saying,

    我唱著歌來清除腦子裡的那個聲音,

  • which were, 'You are nothing. You are nobody. You don't even deserve to live.'

    那個聲音說:『你什麼都不是,你一文不名。你不配活著。』

  • And that was when I really started thinking about killing myself."

    從那一刻起,我真的開始想要殺死我自己。 」

  • You don't think in depression that you've put on a gray veil

    你憂鬱的時候,並不像是你戴上了一個灰色面紗,

  • and are seeing the world through the haze of a bad mood.

    透過沮喪情緒的霧霾來看待這個世界。

  • You think that the veil has been taken away, the veil of happiness, and that now you're seeing truly.

    而是你認為那層快樂的面紗已經被拿走,所以現在你面對的是赤裸裸的現實。

  • It's easier to help schizophrenics who perceive

    幫助精神分裂症患者相對容易一些,

  • that there's something foreign inside of them that needs to be exorcised,

    他們知道身體裡有異物,需要把它們弄出去,

  • but it's difficult with depressives, because we believe we are seeing the truth.

    而對於憂鬱症患者就困難多了,因為我們相信自己看到的是現實。

  • But the truth lies. I became obsessed with that sentence: "But the truth lies."

    但是事實會說謊。我為這句話著迷:「事實會說謊。」

  • And I discovered, as I talked to depressive people, that they have many delusional perceptions.

    據我觀察,當我和憂鬱症患者交談時,他們有許多妄想的念頭。

  • People will say, "No one loves me."

    他們會說:「沒人愛我。」

  • And you say, "I love you, your wife loves you, your mother loves you."

    你會說:「我愛你,你的妻子愛你,你的媽媽愛你。」

  • You can answer that one pretty readily, at least for most people.

    你可以馬上說出這個答案,至少大多數人是這樣。

  • But people who are depressed will also say, "No matter what we do, we're all just going to die in the end."

    但是憂鬱症患者還會說:「不管我們做什麼,最終,我們都會死去。」

  • Or they'll say, "There can be no true communion between two human beings.

    或者他們會說:「人與人之間不可能有真正的交流。

  • Each of us is trapped in his own body." To which you have to say, "That's true,

    我們每個人都被困在自己的身體裡。」關於這點你會反駁說:「這沒錯,

  • but I think we should focus right now on what to have for breakfast."

    但是我認為,我們當下應該考慮的是早飯吃什麼。」

  • A lot of the time, what they are expressing is not illness, but insight,

    大多數時候,他們所表現出來的不是病症,而是思想偏執,

  • and one comes to think what's really extraordinary

    他們對這些問題特別在意,

  • is that most of us know about those existential questions, and they don't distract us very much.

    而大多數人都知道這些存在主義問題,但是我們不會太困擾。

  • There was a study I particularly liked,

    我特別喜歡這個研究:

  • in which a group of depressed and a group of non-depressed people

    一群憂鬱症患者 和一群非憂鬱症患者

  • were asked to play a video game for an hour, and at the end of the hour,

    被要求玩一個小時的電玩,一小時後問他們,

  • they were asked how many little monsters they thought they had killed.

    他們認為自己殺死了多少只小怪獸。

  • The depressive group was usually accurate to within about 10 percent,

    憂鬱症組的回答通常是準確的,誤差在 10% 以內,

  • and the non-depressed people guessed between 15 and 20 times as many little monsters, as they had actually killed.

    而非憂鬱症組的人,回答打死小怪獸的數量比實際數目多了15到20倍 。

  • A lot of people said, when I chose to write about my depression,

    當我選擇寫下我自己的憂鬱經歷,很多人說要揭開這個秘密,

  • that it must be very difficult to be out of that closet, to have people know.

    讓別人知道,一定非常困難。

  • They said, "Do people talk to you differently?" I said, "Yes, people talk to me differently."

    他們說:「人們會用不同的口吻和你說話嗎?」我回答:「是的,人們用不一樣的語氣和我說話。」

  • They talk to me differently insofar as they start telling me about their experience,

    這種不一樣表現在他們會開始和我談自己的經歷,

  • or their sister's experience, or their friend's experience.

    或者他們姐妹的經歷,或者他們朋友的經歷。

  • Things are different because now I know that depression is the family secret that everyone has.

    事情和以前有所不同,因為現在我知道憂鬱是每個家庭裡的秘密。

  • I went a few years ago to a conference, and on Friday of the three-day conference,

    幾年前我參加一個會議,會議有三天,週五的時候,

  • one of the participants took me aside, and she said,

    一名與會者把我拉到一旁,對我說:

  • "I suffer from depression, and I'm a little embarrassed about it,

    「我有憂鬱症,我覺得有點不好意思,

  • but I've been taking this medication, and I just wanted to ask you what you think?"

    但是我一直在服這種藥,我只想問問你的意見?」

  • And so I did my best to give her such advice as I could.

    於是我盡我所能給了她一些建議。

  • And then she said, "You know, my husband would never understand this.

    然後她說:「你知道,我丈夫永遠不會理解這些。

  • He's really the kind of guy to whom this wouldn't make any sense,

    他就是那種認為這些都是胡說八道的人,

  • so, you know, it's just between us." And I said, "Yes, that's fine."

    所以我想,嗯,希望我們的談話能保密。」我回答:「當然沒問題。」

  • On Sunday of the same conference, her husband took me aside,

    週日在同一個會議上,她的丈夫把我拉到一邊,

  • and he said, "My wife wouldn't think that I was really much of a guy if she knew this,

    他說:「我妻子如果知道這事,她就不會覺得我是個男子漢,

  • but I've been dealing with this depression and I'm taking some medication, and I wondered what you think?"

    但是我一直在對抗憂鬱,而且在服用藥物,我想能否聽聽你的建議?」

  • They were hiding the same medication in two different places in the same bedroom.

    他們兩個把同樣的藥物藏在臥室不同的地方。

  • And I said that I thought communication within the marriage might be triggering some of their problems.

    於是我對他說,我認為婚姻中的溝通可能引起他們的某些問題。

  • But I was also struck by the burdensome nature of such mutual secrecy.

    不過我也震驚於這種相互隱瞞的惱人天性。

  • Depression is so exhausting.

    憂鬱令人精疲力盡,它消耗了你那麼多的時間和精力。

  • It takes up so much of your time and energy, and silence about it,

    對此緘口不提,

  • it really does make the depression worse.

    真的只會讓憂鬱更糟糕。

  • And then I began thinking about all the ways people make themselves better.

    我開始考慮各種方法可以讓人們感覺更好。

  • I'd started off as a medical conservative.

    一開始我對醫學治療較保守。

  • I thought there were a few kinds of therapy that worked.

    我認為一些療法是有效的。

  • It was clear what they were. There was medication.

    它們確實有效,包括藥物治療,

  • There were certain psychotherapies. There was possibly electroconvulsive treatment,

    還有一些特定的心理治療,電痙攣療法也可能有效。

  • and that everything else was nonsense.

    除此以外的都沒用。

  • But then I discovered something.

    但是後來我發現,

  • If you have brain cancer, and you say that standing on your head for 20 minutes every morning

    如果你得了腦癌,而且你認為每天早上倒立 20 分鐘

  • makes you feel better. It may make you feel better, but you still have brain cancer,

    能讓你感覺好些。這可能讓你感覺好一些,但是你仍然會有腦癌。

  • and you'll still probably die from it.

    你還是有可能因此死去。

  • But if you say that you have depression,

    不過如果你說你得了憂鬱症,

  • and standing on your head for 20 minutes every day makes you feel better,

    然後每天倒立 20 分鐘讓你感覺好些,

  • then it's worked, because depression is an illness of how you feel,

    那麼這是有效的。因為憂鬱是一種關於感受的疾病。

  • and if you feel better, then you are effectively not depressed anymore.

    如果你感覺好一點了,那麼你就不會那麼憂鬱了。

  • So I became much more tolerant of the vast world of alternative treatments.

    所以我開始對無數的替代療法抱有更加寬容的看法。

  • And I get letters, I get hundreds of letters from people writing to tell me about what's worked for them.

    我收到來信,多達幾百封的來信,人們來信告訴我,什麼樣的療法對他們有效。

  • Someone was asking me backstage today about meditation.

    今天有人在後臺問我關於藥物治療的事情。

  • My favorite of the letters that I got was the one that came from a woman

    我最喜歡的一封來信是來自一位女士,

  • who wrote and said that she had tried therapy, medication.

    她說她嘗試過心理治療,也嘗試過藥物治療,

  • She had tried pretty much everything, and she had found a solution and hoped I would tell the world,

    嘗試了幾乎所有的治療方式。她找到一個治療方法希望我能告訴全世界,

  • and that was making little things from yarn.

    那就是用紗線做些小東西。

  • She sent me some of them, and I'm not wearing them right now.

    她還寄給我一些她的作品,我今天並沒有把它們戴在身上。

  • I suggested to her that she also should look up obsessive compulsive disorder in the DSM.

    我建議她還應該去醫院,檢查一下是否得了強迫症。

  • And yet, when I went to look at alternative treatments, I also gained perspective on other treatments.

    然而,當我去了解各種療法的時候,我也對其它療法有了新看法。

  • I went through a tribal exorcism in Senegal that involved a great deal of ram's blood

    我在塞內加爾參加了一次部落驅魔,裡面還有很多公羊的血,

  • and that I'm not going to detail right now, but a few years afterwards I was in Rwanda,

    這裡我就不描述細節了。但是多年之後,我在盧旺達

  • working on a different project, and I happened to describe my experience to someone,

    做另一個計畫,我湊巧把自己的經歷告訴某個人,

  • and he said, "Well, that's West Africa, and we're in East Africa,

    他說:「嗯,你知道,那裡是西非,我們這兒是東非,

  • and our rituals are in some ways very different,

    我們的儀式在一些方面很不同,

  • but we do have some rituals that have something in common with what you're describing."

    不過我們確實有一些儀式內容和你描述的相同。」

  • And he said, "But we've had a lot of trouble with Western mental health workers,

    他又說:「不過西方的心理工作者 讓我們很苦惱,

  • especially the ones who came right after the genocide."

    尤其是大屠殺之後來的那些心理醫生。」

  • I said, "What kind of trouble did you have?"

    我問:「你對他們有什麼意見嗎?」

  • And he said, "Well, they would do this bizarre thing.

    他回答:「嗯,他們做一些古怪的事。

  • They didn't take people out in the sunshine where you begin to feel better.

    他們不帶人們去讓人感覺舒服的陽光下。

  • They didn't include drumming or music to get people's blood going.

    他們不用鼓聲或者音樂使人血脈沸騰。

  • They didn't involve the whole community.

    他們不動員整個社區的人。