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  • I know what you're thinking:

    我知道你們在想什麼:

  • "Why does that guy get to sit down?"

    「為什麼這傢伙坐着?」

  • That's because this is radio.

    因為這是在廣播。

  • (Music)

    (音樂)

  • I tell radio stories about design,

    我廣播有關設計的故事,

  • and I report on all kinds of stories:

    我講述各種各樣的故事:

  • buildings and toothbrushes

    建築和牙刷

  • and mascots and wayfinding and fonts.

    吉祥物、路標還有字體。

  • My mission is to get people to engage with the design that they care about

    我的任務是讓人們關注 他們在乎的設計,

  • so they begin to pay attention to all forms of design.

    讓人們開始注意各種形式的設計。

  • When you decode the world with design intent in mind,

    當你用設計的眼光看世界時,

  • the world becomes kind of magical.

    世界開始變得神奇。

  • Instead of seeing the broken things,

    看見的不再是支零破碎的物體,

  • you see all the little bits of genius

    而是點點滴滴的智慧

  • that anonymous designers have sweated over

    由無名的設計家辛苦構建

  • to make our lives better.

    目的是讓我們生活更加美好。

  • And that's essentially the definition of design:

    而這就是設計的精華定義:

  • making life better and providing joy.

    讓生活更美好、為生活提供歡樂。

  • And few things give me greater joy

    精心設計的旗幟

  • than a well-designed flag.

    是最能給我帶來歡樂的事物之一。

  • (Laughter) (Applause)

    (掌聲)(笑聲)

  • Yeah!

    沒錯!

  • Happy 50th anniversary on your flag, Canada.

    50歲生日快樂,加拿大國旗。

  • It is beautiful, gold standard. Love it.

    非常漂亮,黃金標準。人見人愛。

  • I'm kind of obsessed with flags.

    我對旗幟非常著迷。

  • Sometimes I bring up the topic of flags,

    有時我跟別人聊旗幟,

  • and people are like, "I don't care about flags,"

    對方就會說:「我不在乎旗幟。」

  • and then we start talking about flags, and trust me,

    然後我們開始聊旗幟,信不信由你,

  • 100 percent of people care about flags.

    所有人都在乎旗幟。

  • There's just something about them that works on our emotions.

    旗幟裡面有一種奇妙的東西 左右著我們的情感。

  • My family wrapped my Christmas presents as flags this year,

    今年我的家人用國旗 包裝我的聖誕禮物,

  • including the blue gift bag

    也包括右上方那個藍色禮物袋

  • that's dressed up as the flag of Scotland.

    設計用的是蘇格蘭旗。

  • I put this picture online, and sure enough,

    我將這照片擺上網,當然,

  • within the first few minutes, someone left a comment that said,

    幾分鐘內就有人留言說:

  • "You can take that Scottish Saltire and shove it up your ass." (Laughter)

    「收起蘇格蘭的聖安德魯十字旗, 塞到你屁股裡。」(笑聲)

  • Which -- see, people are passionate about flags, you know?

    看吧,人們相當熱衷於旗幟。

  • That's the way it is.

    這就是旗幟的力量。

  • What I love about flags

    我之所以喜歡旗幟,

  • is that once you understand the design of flags,

    是因為一旦你理解了旗幟的設計

  • what makes a good flag, what makes a bad flag,

    理解怎樣才算好的旗幟, 怎樣才算壞的旗幟,

  • you can understand the design of almost anything.

    你就可以理解 幾乎所有事物的設計。

  • So what I'm going to do here is,

    所以我現在要做的是

  • I cracked open an episode of my radio show,

    我開始我的設計廣播節目 「99% Invisible」

  • "99% Invisible," and I'm going to reconstruct it here on stage,

    我將會在台上呈現這個節目

  • so when I press a button over here --

    所以當我在這點擊按鈕時——

  • Voice: S for Sound --

    聲音:S代表聲音——

  • Roman Mars: It's going to make a sound,

    羅曼·馬斯:就會發出聲音,

  • and so whenever you hear a sound

    所以大家要是聽到聲音

  • or a voice or a piece of music,

    或者音樂,

  • it's because I pressed a button.

    那是因為我按了按鈕。

  • Voice: Sssssound.

    聲音:嘶——聲音。

  • RM: All right, got it? Here we go.

    馬斯:好了?我們開始吧。

  • Three, two.

    三,二。

  • This is 99% Invisible. I'm Roman Mars.

    歡迎收聽「99% Invisible」 我是羅曼·馬斯

  • Narrator: The five basic principles of flag design.

    陳述者:設計旗幟的五個基本原則。

  • Roman Mars: According to the North American Vexillological Association.

    馬斯:根據北美旗幟學協會

  • Vexillological.

    旗幟學

  • Ted Kaye: Vexillology is the study of flags.

    泰德·凱伊(旗幟學家): 旗幟學指對旗幟的研究。

  • RM: It's that extra "lol" that makes it sound weird.

    馬斯:聽上去有點怪異, 是因為裡面的笑意。

  • Narrator: Number one, keep it simple.

    陳述者:第一,設計要簡單。

  • The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.

    旗幟應該設計簡單, 連小孩子也能記住畫出來。

  • RM: Before I moved to Chicago in 2005,

    馬斯:2005年搬到芝加哥之前

  • I didn't even know cities had their own flags.

    我並不知道城市也有自己的旗幟。

  • TK: Most larger cities do have flags.

    凱伊:大部分的大型城市 的確有自己的旗幟。

  • RM: Well, I didn't know that. That's Ted Kaye, by the way.

    馬斯:我那時並不知道。 噢,這是泰德·凱伊。

  • TK: Hello. RM: He's a flag expert.

    凱伊:大家好。 馬斯:他是旗幟學專家。

  • He's a totally awesome guy.

    他超級棒。

  • TK: I'm Ted Kaye. I have edited a scholarly journal on flag studies,

    凱伊:我叫泰德·凱伊。我編輯過 一本旗幟學的學術周刊,

  • and I am currently involved with the Portland Flag Association

    目前我在波特蘭旗幟協會

  • and the North American Vexillological Association.

    還有北美旗幟學協會。

  • RM: Ted literally wrote the book on flag design.

    馬斯:泰德寫了一本 關於旗幟設計的書。

  • Narrator: "Good Flag, Bad Flag."

    陳述者:「好旗,壞旗」

  • RM: It's more of a pamphlet, really. It's about 16 pages.

    馬斯:這看上去更像小冊子。 大概有16頁。

  • TK: Yes, it's called "Good Flag, Bad Flag:

    凱伊:沒錯,書名為

  • How to Design a Great Flag."

    「好旗,壞旗: 如何設計一支出色的旗幟」

  • RM: And that first city flag I discovered in Chicago

    馬斯:我在芝加哥發現的第一支市旗

  • is a beaut:

    美麗動人:

  • white field, two horizontal blue stripes,

    白色背景,兩條水平藍色條紋,

  • and four six-pointed red stars down the middle.

    還有中間四個六角紅星。

  • Narrator: Number two: use meaningful symbolism.

    陳述者:第二,使用有意義的象徵。

  • TK: The blue stripes represent the water, the river and the lake.

    凱伊:藍色條紋代表 水、河流、湖泊。

  • Narrator: The flag's images, colors or pattern

    陳述者:旗幟的圖案、顏色、圖形

  • should relate to what it symbolizes.

    應該與象徵的事物相關。

  • TK: The red stars represent significant events in Chicago's history.

    凱伊:紅星代表 芝加哥的重要歷史事件。

  • RM: Namely, the founding of Fort Dearborn on the future site of Chicago,

    馬斯:指的是未來芝加哥的 迪爾伯恩堡的建立;

  • the Great Chicago Fire,

    1871年的芝加哥大火;

  • the World Columbian Exposition, which everyone remembers

    芝加哥哥倫布世界紀念博覽館,

  • because of the White City,

    由於懷特城,大家都記得這一事件;

  • and the Century of Progress Exposition,

    還有芝加哥萬國博覽會,

  • which no one remembers at all.

    沒有人記得這一事件。

  • Narrator: Number three, use two to three basic colors.

    陳述者:第三, 使用兩到三種基本顏色。

  • TK: The basic rule for colors is to use two to three colors

    凱伊:顏色的基本原則是

  • from the standard color set:

    使用標準顏色集裡的 兩到三種基本顏色:

  • red, white, blue, green, yellow and black.

    紅、白、藍、綠、黃、黑。

  • RM: The design of the Chicago flag has complete buy-in

    馬斯:芝加哥市旗的設計 深受大眾喜愛,

  • with an entire cross-section of the city.

    在城市各個地方都可看見。

  • It is everywhere;

    非常普遍;

  • every municipal building flies the flag.

    每幢市建築都立著這一支旗。

  • Whet Moser: Like, there's probably at least one store on every block

    Whet Moser:我工作附近 每條街上都有至少一家商店

  • near where I work that sells some sort of Chicago flag paraphernalia.

    會賣帶有芝加哥市旗的用具。

  • RM: That's Whet Moser from Chicago magazine.

    馬斯:他是芝加哥雜誌的 Whet Moser。

  • WM: Today, just for example, I went to get a haircut,

    Moser:譬如今天我去剪頭髮,

  • and when I sat down in the barber's chair,

    我坐在理髮師的椅子上,

  • there was a Chicago flag on the box that the barber kept all his tools in,

    看見理髮師的工具箱上 就有一支芝加哥市旗,

  • and then in the mirror there was a Chicago flag on the wall behind me.

    然後鏡子裡面在我身後 也有一支芝加哥市旗。

  • When I left, a guy passed me who had a Chicago flag badge on his backpack.

    我離開的時候,經過一個男子 背包上面有一個芝加哥市旗徽章。

  • RM: It's adaptable and remixable.

    馬斯:旗幟的適應力和混搭力很強。

  • The six-pointed stars in particular show up in all kinds of places.

    特別是六角形 在各種地方都能看見。

  • WM: The coffee I bought the other day

    Moser:有天我買的咖啡上

  • had a Chicago star on it.

    就有一顆芝加哥星。

  • RM: It's a distinct symbol of Chicago pride.

    馬斯:這是芝加哥驕傲的獨特標誌。

  • TK: When a police officer or a firefighter dies in Chicago,

    凱伊:芝加哥裡 有警察或消防員身亡時

  • often it's not the flag of the United States on his casket.

    靈柩上一般放的不是美國國旗。

  • It can be the flag of the city of Chicago.

    放的可以是芝加哥市旗。

  • That's how deeply the flag has gotten into the civic imagery of Chicago.

    這就是市旗 對芝加哥市民形象的力量。

  • RM: And it isn't just that people love Chicago and therefore love the flag.

    馬斯:這不只是人們喜歡芝加哥 才喜歡芝加哥的市旗。

  • I also think that people love Chicago more

    我認為因為芝加哥市旗太棒了

  • because the flag is so cool.

    所以人們更加喜歡芝加哥。

  • TK: A positive feedback loop there between great symbolism and civic pride.

    凱伊:偉大象徵和市民驕傲之間 一個相當正面的反饋循環。

  • RM: Okay. So when I moved back to San Francisco in 2008,

    馬斯:因此2008年搬回三藩市時,

  • I researched its flag,

    我搜索了三藩市的市旗,

  • because I had never seen it

    因為我從未見過這支旗,

  • in the previous eight years I lived there.

    儘管我在那裡住過八年。

  • And I found it, I am sorry to say,

    然後我發現,很抱歉地說,

  • sadly lacking.

    這支旗不夠力。

  • (Laughter)

    (笑聲)

  • I know.

    我知道。

  • It hurts me, too.

    這也讓我很傷心。

  • (Laughter)

    (笑聲)

  • TK: Well, let me start from the top.

    凱伊:讓我從頭說起。

  • Narrator: Number one, keep it simple.

    陳述者:第一,設計要簡單。

  • TK: Keeping it simple.

    凱伊:設計要簡單。

  • Narrator: The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.

    陳述者:旗幟設計應盡量簡單, 連小孩子也能記住畫出來。

  • TK: It's a relatively complex flag.

    凱伊:這是相對複雜的一支旗。

  • RM: Okay, here we go. Okay.

    馬斯:好,我們來。

  • The main component of the San Francisco flag is a phoenix

    三藩市市旗的主要元素是鳳凰

  • representing the city rising from the ashes

    代表經歷了18世紀50年代 的災難性大火後

  • after the devastating fires of the 1850s.

    三藩市在灰燼中重生。

  • TK: A powerful symbol for San Francisco.

    凱伊:三藩市的有力象徵。

  • RM: I still don't really dig the phoenix.

    馬斯:我仍然不太喜歡那隻鳳凰。

  • Design-wise, it manages to both be too crude

    設計方面,旗幟表現得太粗野

  • and have too many details at the same time,

    同時又包涵太多細節,

  • which if you were trying for that,

    要是試圖涵蓋太多細節,

  • you wouldn't be able to do it,

    你終歸是做不出好旗,

  • and it just looks bad at a distance,

    遠看一點都不順眼,

  • but having deep meaning puts that element in the plus column.

    但這些深層的含義 也讓旗幟加點分。

  • Behind the phoenix, the background is mostly white,

    鳳凰後面大部分是白色背景,

  • and then it has a substantial gold border around it.

    然後有大量的金色邊界。

  • TK: Which is a very attractive design element.

    凱伊:這是相當有魅力的設計元素。

  • RM: I think it's okay. But -- (Laughter) --

    馬斯:我認為這還過得去。但是—— (笑聲)——

  • here come the big no-nos of flag design.

    看看旗幟設計的大忌。

  • Narrator: Number four, no lettering or seals.

    陳述者:第四, 不要有字母或者印章。

  • Never use writing of any kind.

    絕對不要使用任何字體。

  • RM: Underneath the phoenix, there's a motto on a ribbon

    馬斯:鳳凰下面的緞帶上 寫著一句格言

  • that translates to "Gold in peace, iron in war,"

    其譯文為:「和平金色,戰爭鐵色」

  • plus -- and this is the big problem --

    另外——這是大問題——

  • it says San Francisco across the bottom.

    下面寫著三藩市。

  • TK: If you need to write the name

    凱伊:如果你得靠寫下

  • of what you're representing on your flag,

    旗幟所代表的事物的名稱,

  • your symbolism has failed.

    這象徵就失敗了。

  • (Laughter) (Applause)

    (笑聲)(掌聲)

  • RM: The United States flag doesn't say "USA" across the front.

    馬斯:美國國旗上可不寫「美國」。

  • In fact, country flags, they tend to behave.

    事實上,國家國旗一般比較聽話。

  • Like, hats off to South Africa and Turkey and Israel

    比如說,看看南非、土耳其、以色列

  • and Somalia and Japan and Gambia.

    看看索馬里、日本、岡比亞。

  • There's a bunch of really great country flags,

    這些國旗都很棒,

  • but they obey good design principles because the stakes are high.

    但是他們遵循優秀設計的原則, 因為風險太高。

  • They're on the international stage.

    他們走的是國際舞台。

  • But city, state and regional flags

    但是市旗、州旗、區旗

  • are another story.

    又是另一回事。

  • (Laughter)

    (笑聲)

  • There is a scourge of bad flags,

    也有一幫壞旗,

  • and they must be stopped.

    這些旗幟得有人叫停。

  • (Laughter) (Applause)

    (笑聲)(掌聲)

  • That is the truth and that is the dare.

    這就是真相和膽量。

  • The first step is to recognize

    第一步是

  • that we have a problem.

    認清我們有一個問題。

  • A lot of people tend to think that good design

    許多人一般認為 好的設計

  • is just a matter of taste,

    不過是品味問題,

  • and quite honestly, sometimes it is, actually,

    老實說,有時候是這樣,

  • but sometimes it isn't, all right?

    但有時候又不是這樣。

  • Here's the full list of NAVA flag design principles.

    以下是北美旗幟學協會 旗幟設計的全部原則。

  • Narrator: The five basic principles of flag design.

    陳述者:旗幟設計的五大基本原則。

  • Number one. TK: Keep it simple.

    第一。 凱伊:設計要簡單。

  • Narrator: Number two. TK: Use meaningful symbolism.

    陳述者:第二。 凱伊:使用有意義的象徵。

  • Narrator: Number three. TK: Use two to three basic colors.

    陳述者:第三。 凱伊:使用兩到三種基本顏色。

  • Narrator: Number four. TK: No lettering or seals.

    陳述者:第四。 凱伊:不要用任何字母或印章。

  • Narrator: Never use writing of any kind.

    陳述者:絕對不要使用任何字體。

  • TK: Because you can't read that at a distance.

    凱伊:因為在遠處 你不會看到這些字。

  • Narrator: Number five. TK: And be distinctive.

    陳述者:第五。 凱伊:要獨特。

  • RM: All the best flags tend to stick to these principles.

    馬斯:所有出眾的旗幟 一般會遵循這些原則。

  • And like I said before, most country flags are okay.

    像我說的那樣,大部分國旗都很好。

  • But here's the thing:

    但問題是:

  • if you showed this list of principles to any designer of almost anything,

    如果你讓任何設計師看這些原則,

  • they would say these principles -- simplicity, deep meaning,

    他們會說這些原則—— 簡單、有意義、

  • having few colors or being thoughtful about colors,

    用色簡單、謹慎,

  • uniqueness, don't have writing you can't read --

    獨特、不帶任何看不到的字體——

  • all those principles apply to them, too.

    所有這些原則 都適用於所有設計師。

  • But sadly, good design principles are rarely invoked

    但不幸的是,好的設計原則

  • in U.S. city flags.

    很少體現在美國的市旗上。

  • Our biggest problem seems to be that fourth one.

    我們最大的問題 看來是第四條原則。

  • We just can't stop ourselves

    我們就是不能阻止自己

  • from putting our names on our flags,

    將自己的名字放到旗幟上,

  • or little municipal seals with tiny writing on them.

    或者小小的市章和小小的字體。

  • Here's the thing about municipal seals:

    使用市章的問題是:

  • They were designed to be on pieces of paper

    這些市章原來的設計目的是 用在一張紙上,

  • where you can read them,

    讓大家看得清,

  • not on flags 100 feet away flapping in the breeze.

    而不是用在100尺外 隨風飄揚的旗幟上。

  • So here's a bunch of flags again.

    這裡有一堆市旗。

  • Vexillologists call these SOBs:

    旗幟學家稱這些為「床照」:

  • seals on a bedsheet -- (Laughter) --

    床單上的印照——(笑聲)

  • and if you can't tell what city they go to,

    如果你不知道它們屬於哪個城市

  • yeah, that's exactly the problem,

    沒錯,這就是問題,

  • except for Anaheim, apparently.

    明顯除了阿納海姆市旗 (Anaheim,右上角)

  • They fixed it. (Laughter)

    他們解決了這個問題。(笑聲)

  • These flags are everywhere in the U.S.

    這些旗幟在美國隨處可見。

  • The European equivalent of the municipal seal

    歐洲國家的市章

  • is the city coat of arms,

    是城市的遁形紋章,

  • and this is where we can learn a lesson for how to do things right.

    我們能從中學習一下 怎樣把旗幟設計好。

  • So this is the city coat of arms of Amsterdam.

    這是阿姆斯特丹的紋章。

  • Now, if this were a United States city,

    倘若這是一個美國城市,

  • the flag would probably look like this.

    這支市旗估計會長成這樣。

  • You know, yeah. (Laughter)

    你懂的,是吧。(笑聲)

  • But instead, the flag of Amsterdam

    但是阿姆斯特丹的市旗

  • looks like this.

    是這樣的。

  • Rather than plopping the whole coat of arms

    它不是把整個紋章扔進去

  • on a solid background and writing "Amsterdam" below it,

    丟到一個硬邦邦的背景裡 下面再寫著「阿姆斯特丹」;

  • they just take the key elements of the escutcheon, the shield,

    而是採納紋章盾牌的關鍵要素,

  • and they turn it into the most badass city flag in the world.

    將其變成世界上最惹是生非的市旗。

  • (Laughter) (Applause)

    (笑聲)(掌聲)

  • And because it's so badass,

    正因為這支旗夠搗蛋,

  • those flags and crosses are found throughout Amsterdam,

    這些旗幟和交叉 在阿姆斯特丹隨處可見,

  • just like Chicago, they're used.

    就像芝加哥市旗一樣受歡迎。

  • Even though seal-on-a-bedsheet flags are particularly painful

    儘管這些床照旗幟

  • and offensive to me,

    有夠讓我特別痛苦、受不了,

  • nothing can quite prepare you

    你怎麼也不會受得了

  • for one of the biggest