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  • - It wasn't until I was finally single at 62

    - 直到我62歲的時候,我終於單身了。

  • that I began to feel whole,

    我開始感覺到完整。

  • to feel that I was where I was supposed to be.

    感覺到我在我應該在的地方。

  • (upbeat instrumental music)

    (歡快的器樂)

  • I'm Jane Fonda and I'm supposed to explain it all

    我是簡-方達,我應該解釋這一切。

  • in this interview.

    在這次採訪中。

  • I'll do my best.

    我會盡力的。

  • (upbeat instrumental music)

    (歡快的器樂)

  • I was never confident.

    我從來沒有信心。

  • I'm still not particularly confident.

    我還是沒有特別的信心。

  • I never thought I would be a performer.

    我從來沒有想過我會成為一個表演者。

  • I was very shy.

    我是很害羞的。

  • In fact, I didn't know what I wanted to do,

    其實,我也不知道自己想做什麼。

  • which is very common today for young people.

    這是當今年輕人非常普遍的現象。

  • It's really hard to be young, and I found it very hard

    年輕人真的很辛苦,我覺得很辛苦。

  • and I floundered around for quite a long time.

    而我卻在這裡徘徊了相當長的時間。

  • My dad never came home from his work.

    我爸爸下班後從來沒有回家。

  • He was a movie actor, a star.

    他是一個電影演員,一個明星。

  • He never came home carrying joy.

    他從來沒有帶著快樂回家。

  • I never got a sense that he found joy in his work.

    我從來沒有感覺到他在工作中找到了樂趣。

  • So why did I want to be an actor?

    那我為什麼要當演員呢?

  • So I didn't want to be an actor until I knew I was about 18

    所以我在18歲之前都沒有想當演員。

  • and then I had to move out of my father's house.

    然後我不得不搬出我父親的房子。

  • I didn't know what to do.

    我不知道該怎麼辦。

  • And I met Lee Strasberg's daughter, who said,

    而我遇到了李-斯特拉斯伯格的女兒,她說。

  • "Well, you should study with Lee.

    "嗯,你應該跟李先生學習。

  • "You should study with my dad."

    "你應該跟我爸爸學習。"

  • And he accepted me into his class.

    而他也接受我進了他的班級。

  • Nobody had ever told me I was particularly good at anything

    從來沒有人告訴過我,我在任何事情上都特別擅長。

  • so when Lee Strasberg said,

    所以當李斯特拉斯伯格說。

  • "I see a lot of people come through here

    "我看到很多人經過這裡

  • "and you have real talent."

    "你有真正的天賦。"

  • Oh, I really felt like the top of my head came off

    哦,我真的覺得我的頭頂都要掉下來了。

  • and birds flew out and the color of the sky changed.

    和鳥兒飛了出去,天空的顏色也發生了變化。

  • And when I walked down onto Broadway after that class,

    而當我上完那節課後走到百老匯的時候。

  • I felt like I owned the city.

    我覺得自己是這個城市的主人。

  • It was amazing.

    太神奇了

  • I was transformed immediately.

    我馬上就被改變了。

  • They always put me in roles of kind of the girl next door,

    他們總是讓我扮演鄰家女孩的角色。

  • you know, the ingenue.

    你知道,獨創性。

  • And you know, I was fairly good and I did many of them,

    你知道,我相當不錯,我做了很多人。

  • but I never enjoyed it.

    但我從來沒有享受過它。

  • During my second movie,

    在我的第二部電影中。

  • it was called "Walk on the Wild Side,"

    它被稱為 "野路子"。

  • I played a vagabond during the Depression,

    我在大蕭條時期扮演了一個流浪漢。

  • a tough street girl and she became a hooker.

    一個強悍的街頭女孩,她成了一個妓女。

  • And I really liked playing a character like that.

    而且我很喜歡扮演這樣的角色。

  • I could sink my teeth into it.

    我可以沉下心來

  • I just loved it.

    我只是喜歡它。

  • I just loved doing that.

    我只是喜歡這樣做。

  • (upbeat instrumental music)

    (歡快的器樂)

  • When I was living in France, married to a French director,

    我在法國生活的時候,嫁給了一個法國導演。

  • I had just had a baby.

    我剛剛生了個孩子。

  • I found it very uncomfortable

    我覺得很不舒服

  • that the French people were attacking the United States

    法國人民正在攻擊美國

  • for the war in Vietnam.

    為越南戰爭。

  • I didn't yet understand that,

    我還不明白這一點。

  • oh, they've been there already.

    哦,他們已經在那裡了。

  • They tried to colonize the Vietnamese

    他們試圖在越南殖民

  • and they were defeated.

    而他們卻被打敗了。

  • So they know very well

    所以他們很清楚

  • that we're not gonna be able to succeed.

    我們不會成功的。

  • And my attitude was sour grapes

    而我的態度是酸葡萄

  • just cause they didn't win their war.

    只是因為他們沒有贏得他們的戰爭。

  • You know, I hadn't looked into it enough.

    你知道,我還沒有研究夠。

  • I didn't really understand.

    我真的不明白。

  • And then a group of American soldiers were in Paris

    然後一群美國士兵在巴黎。

  • who had been in Vietnam, they had fought in Vietnam,

    在越南打過仗的人,他們在越南打過仗。

  • and they had left.

    而他們已經離開了。

  • It's called deserting or resisting.

    這叫逃亡或抵抗。

  • And I met these guys

    我遇到了這些人

  • and they started talking to me about the war.

    他們開始跟我談起戰爭。

  • And they gave me a book to read by Jonathan Schell

    他們給了我一本喬納森-謝爾的書讓我讀

  • called "The Village of Ben Suc."

    叫 "本蘇村"。

  • And I read it and my whole life changed.

    而我讀了它,我的整個生活都改變了。

  • It was like, pew.

    這就像,擢。

  • And I thought to myself, I have to go back home

    我心想,我得回家去了

  • and become part of the anti-war movement.

    併成為反戰運動的一部分。

  • And eventually about a year later I did.

    最終大約一年後,我做到了。

  • Those years of ending the war,

    結束戰爭的那些年。

  • that was the beginning for me.

    這是我的開始。

  • I learned a lot.

    我學到了很多東西。

  • (upbeat instrumental music)

    (歡快的器樂)

  • I became an activist in 1970.

    我在1970年成為一名活動家。

  • I was 31.

    我當時31歲

  • And when I was with people,

    而當我與人。

  • Native Americans on indigenous lands

    土著土地上的美國土著人

  • or soldiers on military bases, you know,

    或軍事基地的阿兵哥,你知道的。

  • these are people that I would spend time with

    這些都是我願意花時間的人

  • because they were dealing with problems

    因為他們在處理問題

  • that I was working through various movements on.

    我正在通過各種運動來研究。

  • And my celebrity created a distance

    和我的名人產生了距離

  • between me and those people, frontline people,

    我和那些人,一線的人之間。

  • real people on the ground.

    真正的人在地面上。

  • And so I felt, well if I'm going to do this,

    所以我覺得,好吧,如果我要做這件事。

  • meaning be an organizer,

    意思是做一個組織者。

  • I probably shouldn't be a movie star anymore.

    我也許不應該再當電影明星了。

  • And I had a friend, a Black lawyer in Michigan

    我有一個朋友,密歇根州的一個黑人律師。

  • named Ken Cockrel, and I said to him,

    叫肯-科克雷爾,我對他說:

  • he was like my mentor for a while,

    他就像我的導師一段時間。

  • and I said, "Ken, I think I'm gonna quit the business.

    我說:"肯,我想我要退出這個行業了。

  • "I don't want to be in Hollywood anymore.

    "我不想再在好萊塢混了。

  • "I want to be an organizer."

    "我想成為一名組織者。"

  • And he sat me down and he said,

    他讓我坐下,他說:

  • "Fonda, the movement has countless organizers.

    "方達,運動有無數的組織者。

  • "We don't have movie stars.

    "我們沒有電影明星。

  • "You not only have to keep on acting,

    "你不僅要繼續演下去。

  • "but you have to take more control of your career.

    "但你必須更多的控制你的職業生涯。

  • "Have agency on the work that you do."

    "對你所做的工作要有代理權。"

  • And I was stunned and I began to think about that.

    我當時就驚呆了,我開始思考這個問題。

  • And out of that came "Coming Home," and "9 to 5,"

    於是就有了 "回家 "和 "朝九晚五"。

  • and "China Syndrome," and movies that reflected

    和《中國綜合症》,以及反映的電影。

  • issues that were interesting to me.

    我感興趣的問題。

  • (upbeat instrumental music)

    (歡快的器樂)

  • My identity was never, ever being a star, being a celebrity.

    我的身份從來,都是明星,是名人。

  • You know, movies, it's what I did.

    你知道,電影,這是我做的。

  • I had to support myself.

    我得養活自己。

  • You know, people need to be useful.

    你知道,人要有用。

  • People need, they might not even be conscious of it,

    人們需要的,可能連自己都沒有意識到。

  • but people need to have meaning in their lives,

    但人們的生活需要有意義。

  • a sense that they know why they're here.

    一種他們知道自己為什麼在這裡的感覺。

  • And in the absence of that,

    而在沒有這些的情況下。

  • I think there's a lot of, I feel, anxiety, malaise.

    我覺得有很多,我覺得,焦慮,不安。

  • And you know, I think as a young person

    你知道,我認為作為一個年輕人

  • you can get in a lot of trouble if you feel that way.

    如果你這樣想,你會有很多麻煩。

  • When I was young, I would say like up to 25

    當我年輕的時候,我會說,像高達25

  • or something like, you know, I just assumed

    或類似的東西,你知道,我只是假設。

  • 'cause I was floating in space

    因為我在太空中漂浮

  • and I thought that I would probably die.

    我想,我可能會死。

  • I'm sure I'm gonna become an alcoholic or a drug addict,

    我肯定我會成為一個酒鬼或毒癮者。

  • and I'm gonna die alone.

    而我將孤獨地死去

  • When I became an activist, the depression lifted.

    當我成為積極分子後,抑鬱症就解除了。

  • I began to feel I know why I'm here.

    我開始覺得我知道我為什麼在這裡了。

  • I'm here to use my platform as a celebrity

    我是來利用我的平臺做名人的

  • to make things better.

    以使事情變得更好。

  • It just took a long time.

    只是花了很長時間。

  • It wasn't...

    這不是...

  • And then I was always married. (laughs)

    然後我一直在結婚。(笑)

  • I mean three times.

    我的意思是三次。

  • My dad was married five times.

    我爸爸結過五次婚。

  • So, you know, I very much didn't want to catch up to him.

    所以,你知道,我非常不想追上他。

  • So I stopped at three realizing

    所以我停在三點意識到

  • that I just wasn't dealt a hand

    我只是不發牌

  • that made me good at relationships.

    這讓我很擅長處理人際關係。

  • You know, even after I became an activist,

    你知道,即使在我成為一個積極分子之後。

  • I always turned to men to help me find the next step.

    我總是求助於男人來幫我找到下一步的方向。

  • I'd be going in a particular direction

    我會朝著一個特定的方向發展

  • and then I would meet a man

    然後我就會遇到一個男人

  • who could take me further down that road.

    誰能帶我走更遠的路。

  • And then I would move on.

    然後我會繼續前進。

  • Isn't that a terrible thing to say?

    這話是不是很可怕?

  • It wasn't until I was finally single at 62

    直到我62歲的時候,我終於單身了。

  • that I began to feel whole,

    我開始感覺到完整。

  • to feel that I was where I was supposed to be.

    感覺到我在我應該在的地方。

  • (upbeat instrumental music)

    (歡快的器樂)

  • When it comes to relationships with men,

    在和男人談戀愛的時候。

  • you know, the problem is falling in love.

    你知道,問題是戀愛。

  • What's wrong with that sentence?

    這句話有什麼問題?

  • Not love. Falling.

    不是愛。墜落。

  • And what happens to a lot of women

    而很多女人的遭遇

  • is two people come together and the woman falls,

    是兩個人走到一起,女人倒下了。

  • or at least a lot of women, me, I'll just talk about myself.

    或者至少是很多女人,我,我就說說我自己。

  • I would tend to mold myself

    我會傾向於塑造自己

  • according to what my then-husband wanted me to be.

    根據我當時的丈夫希望我成為。

  • But there was always a center to myself

    但我自己始終有一箇中心

  • that they never touched.

    他們從未接觸過的。

  • My friend Eve Ensler, the author of "Vagina Monologues,"

    我的朋友伊芙-恩斯勒,"陰道獨白 "的作者。

  • you know, she said,

    你知道,她說。

  • "The three things that you have to look for

    "三件事 "要注意的是

  • "when you go into a relationship: you want to feel safe,

    "當你進入一個關係: 你想感到安全。

  • "you want to feel seen, and you want to feel cherished."

    "你要感覺到被看到, 你要感覺到珍惜。"

  • What I realized now is two people that love each other,

    我現在意識到的是兩個相愛的人。

  • whether it's two women, two men,

    無論是兩個女人,兩個男人。

  • or a man or woman, or whatever,

    或男人或女人,或什麼的。

  • coming together and they stay on their own two feet,

    一起走來,他們保持自己的兩隻腳。

  • two whole people coming together

    璧合

  • and maintaining their agency, their strength,

    並保持他們的機構、力量。

  • while at the same time caring for the other,

    同時又能照顧到對方。

  • nurturing the other, cherishing the other,

    培養對方,珍惜對方。

  • but never losing themselves.

    卻從未失去過自己。

  • I think that in there lies the secret

    我想這裡面就有祕密

  • to a successful relationship.

    到一個成功的關係。

  • What I found very often is if the woman shows up fully

    我經常發現的是,如果女方全副武裝的出現

  • and she's present and she says to her partner, "Come on.

    和她的存在,她說她的合作伙伴,"來吧。

  • "Meet me here where I am."

    "在我所在的地方見我。"

  • The man will flee.

    那人將會逃走。

  • At least those are the men that I chose. (chuckles)

    至少這些都是我選擇的男人。(笑)

  • What I've realized in my dotage, my old age,

    我在我的晚年,我的晚年所意識到的。

  • is probably that men showed up for me and said,

    是可能男人為我出現了,說。

  • "Come on, Jane, I'm here. Show up."

    "來吧,簡,我在這裡。出現了。"

  • And I fled.

    我就逃走了。

  • I wonder how many men who were really perfect for me

    我不知道有多少男人對我來說是完美的

  • I fled because they would have made me show up.

    我逃走是因為他們會讓我出現。

  • And instead, I chose men

    而我卻選擇了男人

  • who wouldn't know what that even meant

    誰也不知道那是什麼意思

  • so they never asked me to.

    所以他們從來沒有要求我。

  • (upbeat instrumental music)

    (歡快的器樂)

  • I mean I can give all kinds of parenting advice.

    我的意思是我可以給各種育兒建議。

  • None of it is what I practiced.

    都不是我練的。

  • I have studied parenting to find out, can it be taught?

    我研究了一下育兒知識,可以教嗎?

  • Can it be learned?

    能不能學?

  • Because I didn't know what it meant,

    因為我不知道這是什麼意思。

  • and I didn't know how to be one.

    而我卻不知道如何成為一個。

  • I married men who were good fathers, okay?

    我嫁的男人都是好父親,好嗎?

  • I was lucky.

    我是幸運的。

  • Two of my three husbands I had children with.

    我的三個丈夫中有兩個是和我生過孩子的。

  • A parent is supposed to show up with open eyes,

    父母應該睜大眼睛出現。

  • eyes of love, and reflect the child back to themselves

    愛的眼睛,把孩子反射給自己

  • with eyes of love, and know how to listen.

    用愛的眼睛,懂得傾聽。

  • If because of depression or addiction or whatever

    如果因為抑鬱症或者毒癮或者其他什麼原因的話

  • you have duct tape over your eyes,

    你的眼睛上有膠布

  • it's not gonna work very well.

    這不是要去工作非常好。

  • I didn't know how to show up.

    我不知道如何出現。

  • I was a food addict.

    我是一個食物上癮者。

  • I was an addict and it screws around with you.

    我曾經是個癮君子,它在你身上亂搞。

  • And I apologized to them, but you know,

    我也向他們道歉了,但你知道。

  • it's hard to make up for what you didn't do.

    亡羊補牢,為時已晚

  • However, you know, I do believe that it's never too late.

    然而,你知道,我相信,這永遠不會太晚。

  • So, you know, I try as best I can to do a better job now.

    所以,你知道,我儘量我現在可以做得更好。

  • And I love having grandkids.

    而且我喜歡有孫子。

  • They're like second chances.

    他們就像第二次機會。

  • You can also give them back

    你也可以還給他們

  • at the end of the day. (chuckles)

    在一天結束的時候。(笑)

  • (upbeat instrumental music)

    (歡快的器樂)

  • My women friends are a big priority for me.

    我的女性朋友是我的重中之重。

  • I just have never been able

    我只是從來沒有能夠

  • to have the kind of relationships with men

    和男人的那種關係

  • that I have with my women friends.

    我和我的女性朋友們。

  • Most of my women friends are younger than me,

    我的大部分女性朋友都比我年輕。

  • and braver than me, and they challenge me,

    比我更勇敢,他們挑戰我。

  • and make better and put starch in my spine.

    並使好轉,把澱粉放在我的脊柱上。

  • And do you know that there was a study done

    你知道有一個研究做了

  • at Harvard Medical School that showed

    哈佛醫學院的研究表明

  • that not having women friends is more dangerous

    沒有女性朋友更危險

  • to your health or as dangerous to your health as smoking?

    對你的健康或像吸菸一樣危害你的健康?

  • It's our superpower, and men don't have that superpower.

    這是我們的超能力,而男人沒有這種超能力。

  • Very few men do.

    很少有男人這樣做。

  • I don't know, I think it's evolutionary.

    我不知道,我想這是進化論。

  • They went out hunting with their spears to get meat,

    他們拿著長矛出去打獵取肉。

  • and we would stay back having our children,

    我們會留下來生孩子

  • circling with grandmothers and young mothers and children,

    和奶奶、年輕的母親和孩子們一起轉圈。

  • everybody helping each other.

    大家互相幫助。