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  • -We're back with Joy Reid.

    -我們又回到了喬伊・裡德身邊。

  • Obviously, when something like this comes across your desk,

    很顯然,當你的辦公桌上出現這樣的東西時。

  • you're doing your job, and I appreciate that,

    你在做你的工作,我很感激。

  • but does that throw you when you go,

    但你走的時候,會不會把你扔了。

  • "I have to talk about this"?

    "我得談談這個"?

  • -Yeah, I mean, look, it's difficult.

    -是的,我是說,聽著,這很難。

  • You know, the...

    你知道,這個...

  • I don't think it'll ever be more difficult

    我覺得不會再有什麼困難了

  • than it was when I had to do it for the first time

    比我第一次做的時候要好得多。

  • with the Trayvon Martin case

    與特雷馮-馬丁案

  • because my kids are his age,

    因為我的孩子和他一樣大

  • you know, or the age that he would be.

    你知道的,或者說他的年齡會是。

  • And so, you know, there's the doing the job

    所以,你知道,有做的工作。

  • and then there's the having to explain to your own children

    還有就是必須向自己的孩子解釋清楚

  • when they're asking you, "Are we not important?"

    當他們問你,"我們不重要嗎?"

  • Like, "Why?"

    就像,"為什麼?"

  • You know, I can remember my youngest son,

    你知道,我還記得我的小兒子。

  • our youngest son asking,

    我們的小兒子問。

  • you know, at the time that Trayvon Martin died,

    你知道,在時間 特雷馮・馬丁死亡,

  • and he was -- wow, he was 13 -- 13 or 14 --

    他是 - 哇,他是13 - 13或14 -

  • I think he was 13,

    我想他是13歲。

  • and saying, "Why can people just kill us?"

    並說:"為什麼人們可以隨便殺我們?"

  • And I didn't have an answer for that.

    而我卻沒有答案。

  • You know, and this wasn't even a cop, you know?

    你知道,這甚至不是一個警察,你知道嗎?

  • And when your child is asking you,

    而當你的孩子在問你。

  • "How come people can just kill us?"

    "怎麼人家就能殺了我們?"

  • what are you supposed to say?

    你應該說什麼?

  • You know, I can't say, "People can't just kill you."

    你知道,我不能說,"人們不能隨便殺你。"

  • Because they can. Right?

    因為他們可以。對吧?

  • I mean, between gun laws that are designed

    我的意思是,在槍支法律之間,旨在

  • to make it more possible to use your weapon --

    使其更有可能使用你的武器 --

  • You know, what's the point of being able

    你知道,有什麼意義,能夠。

  • to have the Second Amendment and own weapons

    享有第二修正案和擁有武器的權利

  • if you can't use them and get away with it?

    如果你不能使用它們並逃脫它?

  • So, the gun laws are written to give incredible permission

    所以,槍支法的制定是為了給人不可思議的許可。

  • and incredible latitude to gun owners

    和槍支所有者難以置信的自由度

  • to go ahead and use it.

    來繼續使用它。

  • And then, if you triple and quadruple that,

    然後,如果你的三倍和四倍。

  • that's what you get with police.

    這就是你得到的與警察。

  • They have so much latitude to use force against us

    他們有這麼大的餘地來對付我們。

  • any time they want

    隨時

  • and can make any story and excuse they want,

    並可以製造任何他們想要的故事和藉口。

  • and they almost always get away with it,

    而且他們幾乎總是能逃過一劫。

  • no matter what the facts are.

    無論事實是什麼。

  • So, it's difficult to do the job

    所以,這是很難做的工作

  • and then have to look at your own kids,

    然後還要看看自己的孩子。

  • you know, who are now,

    你知道,誰是現在。

  • you know, young Millennials in their 20s,

    你知道,年輕的千禧一代 在他們的20多歲。

  • and still not be able to say,

    卻仍然不能說。

  • "No, police can't just kill you,"

    "不行,警察不能隨便殺你"。

  • because, actually, kind of they can, you know?

    因為,實際上,那種他們可以, 你知道嗎?

  • So it's tough.

    所以這很難。

  • -I mean, what is it gonna take for someone to go,

    -我是說,要怎麼才能讓人走呢?

  • "Hey, let's train police better"?

    "嘿,讓我們更好地訓練警察"?

  • It should be common sense.

    這應該是常識。

  • -Well, I mean, and people have to understand -- you know,

    -嗯,我的意思是,和人們必須理解 - 你知道。

  • I have a lot of friends that are police, you know?

    我有很多朋友都是警察,你知道嗎?

  • I don't have anything against police.

    我對警察沒有任何偏見

  • I have friends who are police.

    我有朋友是警察

  • My Godbrother's a retired NYPD, you know, detective sergeant,

    我乾哥是紐約警局的退休警員,你知道的,警探警長。

  • and we have to understand

    而我們必須瞭解

  • that the police are not trained to shoot you in the leg.

    警察沒有接受過射擊你腿部的訓練。

  • Like, "Why don't" -- People will say,

    就像,"為什麼不"... ... 人們會說。

  • "Why don't you just shoot them in the leg?"

    "你為什麼不直接打他們的腿?"

  • That's not how they're trained.

    這不是他們的訓練方式。

  • They're trained to stop the threat.

    他們受訓是為了阻止威脅

  • And stop the threat --

    並停止威脅...

  • when they take their little test -- right? --

    當他們把他們的小測試 - 對不對?--

  • the test that they take in order to get certified

    資格考試

  • and get their badge,

    並獲得他們的徽章。

  • it's, can you make a shot in the chest in the center mass,

    這是,你能不能在胸口的中心品質做一個鏡頭。

  • and can you make a shot at the head?

    你能不能對著腦袋來一發?

  • They're not trained to shoot you in the arm

    他們沒有受過訓練,不會向你的手臂開槍的。

  • 'cause you could then still come at them with the other arm.

    因為你還可以用另一隻手來對付他們。

  • They're not trained to do that.

    他們沒有受過訓練

  • There is no extra training

    沒有額外的培訓

  • that can make police stop shooting people in the head

    能讓警察停止向人的頭部開槍的東西

  • or shooting people in the chest

    或開槍打人的胸部

  • 'cause that is the fundamentals of their training

    因為那是他們訓練的基本原則。

  • in order to protect themselves, right?

    為了保護自己,對嗎?

  • If there is a real threat, they need to be able to stop it,

    如果真的有威脅,他們需要能夠阻止它。

  • and stopping it doesn't mean shooting the threat in the knee.

    阻止它並不意味著射中威脅的膝蓋。

  • And, so, that training, you know, question always comes up,

    而且,所以,那個培訓,你知道,問題總是出現。

  • but it isn't really going to change anything.

    但這並不能真正改變什麼。

  • What has to happen is that

    必須要發生的是

  • the incentive structure for police has to change,

    警察的激勵結構必須改變。

  • and even police officers will tell you this.

    甚至警察也會告訴你這一點。

  • The incentive structure right now

    現在的激勵結構

  • is that, if you shoot someone,

    是,如果你開槍打人。

  • the incentive is to get your story together -- right? --

    激勵是讓你的故事在一起,對不對?--

  • your union's gonna back you -- and say,

    你的工會會支持你... ... 並說:

  • "I'd perceived this person as a threat.

    "我已經將此人視為威脅。

  • I thought they had a gun. I feared for my life."

    我以為他們有槍。我擔心我的生命。"

  • Say the magic words --

    說出那句神奇的話語...

  • "Thought they had a gun, feared for my life" --

    "以為他們有槍,擔心我的生命"。

  • you're good.

    你是好的。

  • And that's almost always gonna work

    而這幾乎總是要去工作

  • because prosecutors are on your side.

    因為檢察官是站在你這邊的

  • They're your partners -- you're partners together

    他們是你的夥伴,你們是一起的夥伴。

  • in trying to solve crimes with the prosecutors.

    在試圖與檢察官解決犯罪問題時。

  • So, this is almost always going to work,

    所以,這幾乎都是會成功的。

  • and the unions know that.

    工會也知道這一點。

  • So, the incentive structure -- how would it change?

    那麼,激勵結構 -- -- 它將如何改變?

  • Number one, don't let local prosecutors

    第一,不要讓當地的檢察機關。

  • who partner with police make the decision.

    與警方合作的人做出決定。

  • Let an outside entity look at these shootings and say,

    讓外部實體看看這些槍擊事件,並說:

  • "Let us decide whether this was fair."

    "讓我們來決定這是否公平。"

  • That would be one thing.

    這將是一件事。

  • Number two, people get mad about defund the police,

    第二,人們為資助警察而瘋狂。

  • but it isn't about defunding them.

    但這不是關於資助他們。

  • Of course there have to be police budgets,

    當然要有警察的預算。

  • and police deserve pensions -- they deserve good salaries.

    警察應該得到養老金 -- -- 他們應該得到高薪。

  • We don't want them paid a pittance, right?

    我們不想讓他們拿著微薄的工資,對吧?

  • But you don't have to pay them to go and solve domestic cases

    但你不用花錢請他們去破家務事吧?

  • where you could send a social worker.

    你在哪裡可以派一個社會工作者。

  • Why are we paying them, you know, to solve jaywalking?

    我們為什麼要付錢給他們,你知道,解決亂穿馬路的問題?

  • Why are we paying them to do stuff

    為什麼我們要付錢給他們做事情

  • that someone else who doesn't have a gun could do?

    沒有槍的人也能做的事?

  • I don't think you need someone with a gun

    我想你不需要帶槍的人吧?

  • if two kids who are playing with their, you know, toy guns

    如果兩個孩子誰是玩 他們的,你知道,玩具槍,。

  • and menacing each other or spraying water at each other

    互相威脅或互相噴水

  • or spraying water on the neighbor.

    或向鄰居噴水。

  • If it's a black kid, that kid is likely to get shot

    如果是黑人孩子,那孩子很可能會被槍殺

  • if the police come, you know?

    如果警察來了,你知道嗎?

  • I'm terrified to call the police on people

    我很怕報警的人

  • because I have to be prepared to see that person die,

    因為我必須做好看到那個人死亡的準備。

  • and there have been cases where I think,

    而有的情況下,我認為。

  • "Boy, I should call the police right now,"

    "孩子,我應該馬上報警"。

  • but I'm too scared to

    但我太害怕

  • because I don't want this person, whoever it is --

    因為我不想這個人,不管他是誰... ...

  • if it's somebody who seems to be off, you know,

    如果它是某人誰似乎是關閉的,你知道,

  • and they're walking around,

    他們走來走去。

  • talking to themselves in the streets.

    在街上自言自語。

  • I would never call the police

    我是不會報警的

  • 'cause I don't want to see that person get killed,

    因為我不想看到那個人被殺。

  • and I don't want to live with that.

    我不想活在這種情況下。

  • So, we can't have a system where people like me, who --

    所以,我們不能有一個系統,讓像我這樣的人,誰 --

  • you know, I've got a good job and a great family, great home,

    你知道,我有一份好工作,一個偉大的家庭,偉大的家。

  • and, you know, in theory,

    而且,你知道,在理論上,

  • I shouldn't be scared of the police.

    我不應該害怕警察。

  • I am terrified of them. -God.

    我很害怕他們-上帝

  • -And if I'm scared of them,

    -如果我害怕他們..,

  • imagine how the average, like, 17-year-old black kid feels.

    想象一下,平均一樣,17歲的黑人孩子的感覺。

  • You know?

    你知道嗎?

  • So we have to change the structure.

    所以我們必須改變結構。

  • We have to start paying other people

    我們要開始付錢給別人

  • to solve some of these problems.

    來解決其中的一些問題。

  • And the warrant structure --

    而搜查令結構 -- --

  • why is any warrant being served at 12:30 in the morning

    為什麼凌晨12點半還會有搜查令?

  • at a home where the suspect doesn't even live?

    在犯罪嫌疑人根本不住的家裡?

  • Can't you check and see that you already arrested him?

    你就不能查一查,看看你已經把他抓起來了嗎?

  • -Yeah.

    -是的

  • -There should be more structure, not more training.

    -應該有更多的結構,而不是更多的培訓。

  • -Yeah, because someone could also say,

    -是的,因為有人也可以說:

  • if you're a police officer,

    如果你是一個警察。

  • it's more dangerous to go in at 12:30 than it is or...

    在12: 30進去比它更危險,或者... ...

  • It's just... -Yeah.

    只是...

  • -It's saving their lives, as well.

    -這也是在救他們的命。

  • -Absolutely. And, I mean, look,

    -當然而且,我是說,你看

  • police, you know -- it's a tough job.

    警察,你知道 - 這是一個艱難的工作。

  • It's not an easy job.

    這不是一個簡單的工作。

  • Police are being called upon

    正在召集警方

  • to essentially be America's babysitters, right?

    基本上是美國的保姆,對吧?

  • -Yeah. I agree.

    -是的,我同意

  • -So we're asking them to do stuff

    -所以我們要求他們做一些事情。

  • that has nothing to do with solving crimes.

    這與破案無關。

  • Police are really good

    警察真的很厲害

  • at solving crimes and finding criminals,

    擅長破案和尋找罪犯;

  • but we're saying do that, plus, babysit the whole society...

    但我們說這樣做,加上,保姆整個社會... ...

  • -Right. -...and go in --

    好吧 -...-...然後進去...

  • when somebody's mad at their neighbor,

    當有人對鄰居發火的時候

  • you go deal with that, you know? -Right.

    你去處理,你知道嗎?-對

  • If somebody's a little too drunk, go and deal with that.

    如果有人喝得有點多,就去處理。

  • They're in the Wendy's parking lot -- go get them.

    他們在溫迪的停車場,去拿他們。

  • Why is that a policeman's job?

    為什麼那是警察的工作?

  • And, so, we're asking them -- we're asking somebody with a gun

    而且,所以,我們要求他們 - 我們要求有人用槍。

  • who's trained to shoot people in the chest and the head

    訓練有素的人開槍打人的胸口和頭顱

  • to go solve somebody who's drunk on the corner.

    去解決某人誰是喝醉了在角落裡。

  • That's insane, and, also, it's not safe for them.

    這太瘋狂了,而且,對他們也不安全。

  • They're dealing with situations where everybody's got guns.

    他們正在處理的情況下,每個人都有槍。

  • So they're nervous, right?

    所以他們很緊張,對嗎?

  • Police come in nervous, and then you add in

    警察來了很緊張,然後你再加進來。

  • the sort of unfortunate racial biases

    那種不幸的種族偏見

  • where somebody who is white is more nervous

    白人更緊張

  • because somebody is black.

    因為有人是黑人。

  • That's a whole social problem

    這是一個完整的社會問題

  • that we can't solve with training.

    我們無法用訓練解決的問題。

  • So if you're nervous around black people

    所以如果你在黑人面前很緊張

  • and then a black person fidgets,

    然後一個黑人坐立不安。

  • that black person's gonna get shot.

    那個黑人會被槍殺。

  • So, I don't think training fixes this.

    所以,我不認為訓練能解決這個問題。

  • I think changing the whole incentive structure

    我認為要改變整個激勵結構

  • around policing

    圍繞治安

  • and making it more of a professional sort of overhaul --

    並使其更加專業的檢修 --

  • we need, like, an overhaul of the profession

    我們需要,像,一個徹底的職業改革

  • more than we need training.

    比我們需要的訓練更多。

  • -I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us,

    -我很感激你花時間跟我們談。

  • because I know you're very busy.

    因為我知道你很忙

  • You're co-anchoring MSNBC's special "Decision 2020" coverage

    你是MSNBC的 "2020年決定 "特別報道的聯合主持人

  • on the first presidential debate

    在第一次總統辯論中的發言

  • on Tuesday, September 29th... -Yeah.

    在9月29日星期二...-是的

  • -...coming up. -Yeah.

    -...來了。-是的

  • -I want to also mention you have a new podcast

    -我還想說你有一個新的播客

  • all about Senator Kamala Harris

    關於卡馬拉-哈里斯參議員的一切

  • called "Kamala: Next in Line"... -Yeah.

    叫做 "卡馬拉,下一個"...

  • -...podcast.

    -...播客。

  • We need content.

    我們需要內容。

  • We need something inspiring to listen to

    我們需要一些鼓舞人心的東西來聽

  • like that right now.

    像現在這樣。

  • -Yeah, no, it's fun.

    -是的,不,這很有趣。

  • And, I mean, Kamala Harris is such a fascinating figure.

    而且,我的意思是,卡馬拉・哈里斯是這樣一個迷人的人物。

  • I'm excited to have been included in that podcast.

    我很高興能被納入該播客。

  • So, yeah, it should be great.

    所以,是的,它應該是偉大的。

  • -Thank you again for being here. I really appreciate this.

    -再次感謝你能來這裡我真的很感激。

  • -Thank you, Jimmy.

    -謝謝你,吉米

  • Appreciate it. Always good to be here.

    欣賞它。在這裡總是好的。

-We're back with Joy Reid.

-我們又回到了喬伊・裡德身邊。

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喬伊-裡德害怕報警。 (Joy Reid Is Afraid to Call the Police)

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    林宜悉 發佈於 2020 年 10 月 24 日
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